Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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But that isn't a paradox. It's a curiosity at best. I wouldn't even go that far personally.
A Human Paradox
- Thread starter Berzerker
- Start date
But that isn't a paradox. It's a curiosity at best. I wouldn't even go that far personally.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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Our ancestors had been leaving Africa for over a million years. But our ancestors only left 100,000 years ago. Well I agree that that is a paradox...
Senethro
Overlord
Not really. Our ancestors of our own species left Africa recently and interbred with our ancestors among closely related human species who had left previously.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
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So in what way did "our ancestors" only leave 100,000 years ago, if the humans they interbred with (who left earlier) are also just as much our ancestors?
Berzerker
Deity
We have ancestors in Africa going back millions of years, some of them (erectus) left Africa >1mya and later some (archaic sapiens) continued leaving becoming Neanderthal and Denisovan peoples. Those archaic humans may have interbred with the erectus populations who left before, but we came from a specific population that stayed in Africa, so we have ancestors who left over a million years ago and ancestors who left 100 kya.
Their contribution is minimal and probably less than current estimates, they shared a genetic code with our African ancestors from even before our departure
Berzerker
Deity
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
paradox solved
paradox solved
Synobun
Deity
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And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
paradox solved
Is this really what the point of this thread was? Just yanking our chain for a few pages only to hit us with a "God did it" zinger?
Berzerker
Deity
I was hoping for a discussion about human origins, some people wanted to argue about the definition of paradox instead
warpus
In pork I trust
Hey if it's not a paradox, it's not a paradox. If I open a thread about socks and start talking about hats instead, people are going to point it out to me and that's my own fault
Berzerker
Deity
And if it is, it is... The OP is about a lengthy delay and its cause in our migration out of Africa which I called a paradox. You complained about my characterization and I posted the definition of paradox and you ignored it. The only argument I've seen against this paradox is population density drove expansion - a possibility I provided in the OP. That must mean population was growing 'exponentially' from 200-100ky and only after 100,000 years of this growth, people left Africa.
Delay implies that something was scheduled and then didn't happen. That is a silly assumption. There was no scheduled or planned exit from Africa so there can't be a delay. There is no "must mean". Again you just grab an assumption to fit your thinking. Where are your population growth figures? Show me how many people left Africa and when. You do not have enough information to claim anything to be the correct answer. Maybe that is the paradox.
Aleksey_aka_al
Smiley
And all those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
Berzerker
Deity
Delay implies that something was scheduled and then didn't happen. That is a silly assumption. There was no scheduled or planned exit from Africa so there can't be a delay. There is no "must mean". Again you just grab an assumption to fit your thinking. Where are your population growth figures? Show me how many people left Africa and when. You do not have enough information to claim anything to be the correct answer. Maybe that is the paradox.
If population density drove expansion then there was a schedule
Those were my questions to Hygro when he said exponential growth was responsible. Of course how did population density push people to Australia in ~35ky and the New World in 85ky? It isn't just that our departure from Africa was delayed, when we did leave we went everywhere in less time it took to leave Africa. Population density didn't do that...
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
paradox solved
Show me the evidence.
No one knows what actually drove the out of Africa migration or if there were many migrations over many years. Population density could have been part of it. Why did they go to Australia first? We can only guess. But I think we can assume that none of the migrations were planned, scheduled or due to happen at a specific time.
I am mystified that you seem to think that there was specific time that it was appropriate for the migration into west Asia was to happen. Do you feel the same about the Asian migration into North America? Was it delayed? On time? Or ahead of schedule? Did the delay you imagine getting out of Africa ripple down and delay the flow of people into North America?
It seems to me that there is something about your thinking that you are not telling us. I hope the delay did not make humans miss an alien rondez vous by 20,000 years.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
I'm arguing that exponential growth will make something appear dormant until there's a sudden shift. Population growth and supportable density (also a factor of tech growth and climate change) are basic explanations. We could add layers of complexity like when certain terrain obstacles are reached and certain boat techs are achieved the next easiest move will be ocean faring but the basic point is that a normal and expected trajectory should look fairly flat until it spikes fairly vertical.
Berzerker
Deity
Show me the evidence.
You've been shown the evidence a number of times, the Bible describes the garden's ice age location - where the 4 rivers become one watering the plain. The Persian Gulf was a river valley/delta when seas were lower. Thats why the Garden no longer exists, its under water.
I am mystified that you seem to think that there was specific time that it was appropriate for the migration into west Asia was to happen. Do you feel the same about the Asian migration into North America? Was it delayed? On time? Or ahead of schedule? Did the delay you imagine getting out of Africa ripple down and delay the flow of people into North America?
It seems to me that there is something about your thinking that you are not telling us. I hope the delay did not make humans miss an alien rondez vous by 20,000 years.
Now that you mention it
, God took the man he made to the Garden he planted in the east. The other people were told to be fruitful and fill the Earth - they were westward of Eden (Persian Gulf). Maybe the delay was awaiting the instruction to fill the Earth or Adam's later appearance in the Eden. Yeah, 100,000 years to go a couple thousand miles is far behind schedule compared to the 35,000 years it took to reach Australia more than 10,000 miles, especially when population density becomes a weaker or non-existent motive the further people got from Africa.
The Bible is not evidence. It's just a bunch of stories of supernatural claptrap that violates the basic laws of science, not to mention common sense.
Perfection
The Great Head.
how exactly does that solve the paradox? When did God plant this garden?And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
paradox solved
warpus
In pork I trust
The funny thing is that introducing God into this whole story finally makes it a paradox.
