A New Dawn Beta Builds

[Afforess]

there's something that doesn't seem right about the alliance on the scoreboard, namewise, it seems inconsistent to me. why does one get named after the alliance but the other not?

Good News! I've set Dynamic Civ Names to force update the names when a civ joins a team.

 

[Iceciro]

Cool, I always found it odd when I'd set an alliance up and the other civ wouldn't change its name. If I don't get to keep my name neither do they!

 

[dudeSDCA]

Rev 221...Tweaked Tech Tree, Banking Requires Guilds, Guilds Require Ursury.

Thanks!!

 

[winthrowe]

bug or misunderstanding: the equestrian guild is supposed to give me a free horse wherever it is, so I can build mounted units correct? I have no horse, so I traded for the guild, but I'm not getting a resource.

I never got an answer on this.. bug or misunderstanding?

 

[Afforess]

A bug. I'll get on it.

 

[NBAfan]

You don't get the detailed feedback, since unlike a C++ parser, an english parser doesn't fall over and die when you make a mistake. It's more like HTML that way.

It seems that I can now build farms early on without a river. Is this right?

 

[dudeSDCA]

This is a feature of BtS when holy shrines are not great wonders. One version of RoM 2.91 had a fix in it that returned to the standard BtS format. I had a mod which used to make them GW's again but it does not work with 2.92. I also came up with the logic that needs to be implemented in the C code to do exactly what you (and I) want. I am just (refusing to be) a C programmer again.

Basically what we want to appear for the great prophet is all holy shrines that have not been built but have had their religion founded. With the ones that can be built in this city active and the others inactive. Afforess' current hide function hides all which can't be built in a the current city. The problem then is remembering which ones you have built and which you haven't.

Having an automate build (my) nearest holy shrine would be icing on the cake.

Brilliant! I would love to see this...It's not so hard to open the religion box to determine which religions you have as holy cities...the pain is trying to remember if you build holy shrine X or not...

I would even be grateful if if would just hide the ones that have already been built (I can just drag the go-to from City-to-City until I find one pops up...)

Were you able to address this?

Quick question: the corporations (e.g., burgerworld, emperors clothing) -- are they actually HQs (so they only should appear in 1 city)? If so, then why can I add them to multiple cities build queues simultaneously?

I never heard back from anyone on this, and am still confused

Another question. I've noticed well into modern age that the apiary and candlemaker's shop are not going obsolete. I can see the value of candlemaker as a "luxury resource", but once you have electricity, having candles shouldn't be giving the same bonuses as they did before you needed candles to be productive

Originally, the Candlemaker's Shop became obsolete with Optics (Whale tradable, Whale oil replaces candles). Of course this was back in Early Buildings.

Never saw any comments on this. Were these buildings updated to become obsolete with Optics?

EDIT:

1.Building City Councils, which gives you 4 free specialists, with Patrician civic (1 per specialist) is a killer combo. Waaaaay to overpowered IMHO. I'm still before 1 AD, and running my economy on 100% for , still having surpluss of 20-30 per turn.

- A few of us commented that the City Councils/Town Halls were OP'd...not sure if it was ever addressed

The graphic of trade caravan is way too big.

Actually i believe they took out that module, so you'd have to edit the original RoM XML file. (0.3 works fine)

Could you change the size of the trade caravan to 0.3?

 

[winthrowe]

Quick question: the corporations (e.g., burgerworld, emperors clothing) -- are they actually HQs (so they only should appear in 1 city)? If so, then why can I add them to multiple cities build queues simultaneously?

Based on my understanding, they are the 'temple' of corps; you get extra bonus if you build them, but you need to take turns and hammers out of your busy schedule

 

[Afforess]

It seems that I can now build farms early on without a river. Is this right?

Yes.

Were you able to address this?

Yes.

I never heard back from anyone on this, and am still confused

There are two corporation buildings for each corporation. 1 is a Headquarter building that earns commerce for each city that has a corporation, much like the religious centers do. The other is a franchise building that can be built in any city that has the prerequiste corporation can build, to provide extra benefits.

Never saw any comments on this. Were these buildings updated to become obsolete with Optics?

No idea.

 

[NBAfan]

Where can I find out what the Advanced Economy option does?

 

[os79]

Where can I find out what the Advanced Economy option does?

It is from Konradcabral (sp?) and su(whatever) thread about improved economics thread. Forgot where it is.

 

[NBAfan]

It is from Konradcabral (sp?) and su(whatever) thread about improved economics thread. Forgot where it is.

I knew about that, is there a summary anywhere?

 

[Killtech]

IMHO, your logic here is slightly flawed. I understand why you'd want a snail game to feel like a snail game all the way through -- but as you pointed out, your games are usually long over before you get to the modern age. So if you're going to be balancing the game for things like the modern era, please, please, please play on a faster speed so you get there and can actually see what's going on. Otherwise you're trying to balance the rest of us on a speed your not playing, in an age you don't get to, for concerns you're not seeing first-hand.

I like the increase in game speed. Even if the turn is now a year, if I have a large city, factories, etc., I should be able to produce mech infantries in 1 turn. This has been a core design element in every version of Civilization I've ever played, and I don't think you're going to fix it with just buildings.

Let me give you an example why this will be a problem:
Lets say turn intervals are 1 year. A war breaks out. The enemy sends their mech. infantry into my territory. Base movement cost is 2, plus their using my roads with a promotion, so they can move 5-6 spaces in 1 turn (which makes sense that an advanced unit can move that quick). If, because you want things to feel on "snail" speed, you've changed production so that it takes me 2-3 turns to build a mech. infantry, the game is badly imbalanced. Why would it take 2-3 years to build a single unit, but enemy troops can move 6 squares in a year? Logically, it just doesn't make sense, and worse, it creates a frustrating game.

So that's what I mean about balancing the end game -- you have to look at everything (movement costs being a big one) to make things scale consistently.

If you really want things to feel snail the whole way, I would recommend the following:
- Create a new modmodmod that is different than the building upgrades (e.g., "Consistent Speed Mod"
- There should be significantly less increases to movement speed over time (a warrior moves 1 space every 20 years, the time interval changes to 5 years, they should only get 1/4 movement; so a new unit with 2 movement points should only get to move 1/2 a space, and so on)
- Dramatically increase all research costs to scale with the changes in the game interval (so if I could research Drama in 1 turn at 20 year interval, then it should take me 4 turns if it's later in the game and the interval is now 5 years)
- Change scaling of hammers / food / culture / commerce /etc. so that if 1 turn is 20 years and it produced 20 hammers, then if nothing changes, and the interval is now 5 years, they only produce 4 hammers (I'm sure you get my drift).

The benefits then, of building upgrades, farms, etc., isn't to "increase production capability" as much as it is to keep up with the game's scaling.

This would be a major undertaking (obviously). But please, please, please don't try to fix this issue with building upgrades. Just my $0.02, thx!

actually i like it that way it currently is: roads only benefit you on your own ground. an invasion force still moves as through unupgraded terrain - so the defender has a huge benefit as he can move his troops to the attacked location near to insantly while the invader are horribly slow (in later ages). if now the defenders could also build units in one turn he could easily outmatch any attacking force in a few turns before they even arrive at their target even though he had much less military in the start... that was the way the game played before i reduced production. it didn't make much fun and was much less balanced IMHO.

another thing that i find terrible about that earlier system was that my troops were always outdated! i produced them as soon as i got a new tech, send them to a war zone and before they arrived i had developed even better units.

however i admit that the changes i made are from the perspective of game speeds of marathon and slower. so it might be that they become less balanced on faster game speeds.

i really see no reason to change that philosophy - especially as most players play on slower speeds. however i'll see what i can do to make it better for faster games. the problem is that i don't understand what's really bothering you because i can't follow your argument.

EDIT:

I will say, a problem that RoM slightly carries over from real civ is that the slower the game speed, the more difficult it is to build defenders during a war, because movement speeds don't scale down. It's actually part of why I refuse to play faster than Marathon, because above that it seems like units move so slowly in balance to research and production speeds that they are obsolete by the time they get to my enemy's doorstep. So I guess its not really a problem so much as it is a asterisk and note.

seems like the more senseful solution would be to give units indeed more movement points for faster game speeds instead of any changes that affect slower speeds. but movement cost scailing with game speed is something only Afforess can currently do.

- A few of us commented that the City Councils/Town Halls were OP'd...not sure if it was ever addressed

there is no more a patrician civic any more in my civics alpha. in generally the +1 per any specialist is a useless tag because it is just too powerful. it would be much better if they would affect only specialist types.

 

[os79]

Gamespeed scaled movement xml tag is already coded in, I think. I did request that one. Just need the schema and xml tag name, then you are good to go. Unless of ocurse Afforess decided to drop it out of disuse .

 

[os79]

Anyway, here is a hilarious pic . Read the log entry and you will get it . Afforess!

View attachment 258389

 

[Killtech]

Anyway, here is a hilarious pic . Read the log entry and you will get it . Afforess!

lol, nice.

judging form your screenshot the maintenance modifiers are not hard enough. quite a lot of gold at a acceptable research rate. guess need check on some maintenance modifiers for buildings and civics . which difficulty you play on?

i guess Joseph won't like the sound of it.

 

[dudeSDCA]

Rev 222 Issue: Complied, installed (log below).

Error: Modules\Os79\Better Rom - Units\Better_RoM_Units_Civ4TechInfos.xml
The last </PrereqTech> is screwed up, caps-wise, and I'm getting an XML load error (easily fixed).

EDIT:
Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology Arctic Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming Sports {Early Buildings} {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} {Modern Corporations} {Civic Diplomacy} {Building Upgrades}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.74 Beta7

 

[os79]

lol, nice.

judging form your screenshot the maintenance modifiers are not hard enough. quite a lot of gold at a acceptable research rate. guess need check on some maintenance modifiers for buildings and civics . which difficulty you play on?

i guess Joseph won't like the sound of it.

Flexible Diff with maximum of Noble. No Revolutions, just don't like it at present. I may change my mind in future.

 

[os79]

Rev 222 Issue: Complied, installed (log below).

Error: Modules\Os79\Better Rom - Units\Better_RoM_Units_Civ4TechInfos.xml
The last </PrereqTech> is screwed up, caps-wise, and I'm getting an XML load error (easily fixed).

EDIT:
Installed Components:
{Required Files} {Military Civics} {Beautification Project} {Castle Improvements} {Ice Breaker} Meteorology Arctic Forestation {Sea Tunnels} Terraforming Sports {Early Buildings} {Historical Wonders} {Better RoM} {Modern Corporations} {Civic Diplomacy} {Building Upgrades}

Install Type:
Custom

Version:
1.74 Beta7

Fixed, sorry .

 

[dudeSDCA]

i really see no reason to change that philosophy - especially as most players play on slower speeds. however i'll see what i can do to make it better for faster games. the problem is that i don't understand what's really bothering you because i can't follow your argument.

EDIT:
seems like the more senseful solution would be to give units indeed more movement points for faster game speeds instead of any changes that affect slower speeds. but movement cost scailing with game speed is something only Afforess can currently do.

Hopefully this is more clear -- because movement speed increases linearly over the course of the game (e.g., units get more movement points), it would be difficult to have a "snail-game-pace" in the later game because units move so much faster (And with the commando promotion, they can use enemy roads). Simply put, movement and economic output/production don't scale 1:1, therefore later era games "feel" faster, regardless of modifiers, because how quickly units can be mobilized, move, attack, etc.

So my point being, if you are trying to impact late game economics:
- first, please play on a faster speed (I usually play epic), so you can actually get to the modern ages and see how some of your modifier affect game play (I find AI autoplay on Warlord to be an effective sandbox)
- second, if you're going to introduce large modifiers (e.g., -50% ) to "balance" the late game to make it feel slower, then you also need to scale the increased movement speed down as well

Hopefully more clear?