A Not So Modest Proposal Regarding Buildings, Resources and Units

[Thunderbrd]

Rubber, as well asa weather proofing for material, for them was used to paint on thelegs/feet so that the hydroponic work they did not produce water borne disease effect that other hydroponic civilizations had to suffer from, this was not a small advantage.

We'll have some interesting disease tags that could make use of that concept too! Neat! But we must make sure not to imbalance any particular culture either.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ball Court: Requires Bricks AND Rubber. Bricks are for the court itself, Rubber is what the balls are made of.

Rubber resource comes too late plus one can make balls out of other objects such as leather balls, gourds or even skulls (as Thunderbrd said). Bricks OR Stone seems like it would be fine.

Barbwire Fence: Requires Steel. Don't think I need to explain this one, unless some folks have suggestions for alternative materials.

Agreed.

Barracks: Requires Bricks AND Furniture. I'm willing to drop the Bricks requirement for an implicit lumber with Furniture, but you are going to need some place for the men to sleep, after all.

I am going to put this to the side for now.

Basketball Court: Requires Lumber AND Nets AND Rubber AND Steel. Like a more modern ball court, the lumber's for the court itself, the rubber for the balls and steel and nets is the hoop. Alternate materials are, as always, welcome; concrete as an OR material, for example.

Not sure why lumber. You can have a court with just pavement. Also nets are the wrong type of net. I don't think the court itself would need a ball. Maybe Steel AND (Prime Timber OR Cement).

Basketweaver's Hut: Requires Storage Pit OR Barter Post OR Trading Post. One of the Prehistoric buildings.

Did we already do this? And I disagree with the prehistoric building part. The Storage Pit is fine to fill that role in the prehistoric era.

Bath House: Requires Bricks OR Concrete OR Marble OR Stone. A similar edit to that done to the Aqueduct, as cement is a seperate resource under my plan.

Again I am leaving Concrete and Cement as one resouce.

Battlebot Arena: Requires Bricks AND Computers AND Glassware AND Parts. Bricks are for the physical structure (willing to have it as an OR require with Concrete, but lumber is probably too dangerous), glassware is all but mandatory for such a dangerous event to keep the bots away from the spectators, and the computers and parts go for the bots themselves, as any prospective robot resources would likely come too late for usage in this building's requirements.

Since Computers need parts, That's redundant. I am not sure about the other requirements. I am going to set this aside for now.

Bioenhancement Center: Requires Computers AND Glassware AND Bricks OR Concrete. The first is the enhancements themselves, the last three are just requisite modern building materials. Willing to having this one under an unusual Garrison OR Laboratory OR Offices OR Shopping District requirement if preferred

This one really confuses me. I need to think on it more.

Boatyard: Requires Lumber. Don't need much else for the kind of Egyptian barges this building's pumping out, and even using plant fibres you need solid lumber for the dock itself. Willing to OR to Prime Timber.

I am thinking maybe it would be better if it just required Canoe Builder OR Shipwright. That would cover any type of boat.

Bomb Shelters: Requires Concrete.

Agreed.

Bombard Tower: Requires Cannon.

Hmm, maybe a Cannon Forge for now. Since there is no cannon resource.

Boneworker's Hut: Requires Storage Pit OR Barter Post OR Trading Post.

Yeah I was going to do that yesterday actually.

Booby Traps: Requires Ammunition AND Parts and doesn't go obsolete. They're still in usage today, after all, and the basic concept is easily scalable to galactic-level warfare. Decided to drop the Factory requirement as African guerillas seem to make them quite easily without an industrial base.

I agree with the parts. I still think eventually they would go obsolete in the Trans-Human era or beyond.

Boondocks: Requires Furniture AND Concrete OR Lumber OR Steel. Just the various types of things you can build shacks out of, really. I'm thinking of the neighbourhood in the Goonies mixed with the sort of places Cletus and Willie from the Simpsons live in.

Skipping since I already mentioned I would cover Housing separately.

Bowling Alley: Requires Chemicals AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Lumber. Chemicals, for future reference, usually refers to plastics in my plan, and I don't really see a need for a seperate plastics resource. Furniture is for the seating and some of the equipment, glassware is standard issue for Modern and lumber is for the lanes themselves, though I'm willing to take Steel as an OR.

I think like Prime Timber at least and then the Shopping District since I always seem to see them around shopping centers and other commercial districts..

Brahmin Library: Requires School of Scribes. This one is per suggestion from DH, so thanks to him from this front.

Agreed.

Brick Mason: Requires Common Clay OR Fine Clay OR Limestone OR Obsidian OR Stone. This is going to be an extremely important building, so I might as well cover all the bases (no pun intended).

Well there is not limestone resource yet. I disagree about the Obsidian and Stone. These are based on Clay Bricks, not stone slabs. These are Brock Masons not Stone Masons.

Broadcast Tower: Requires Steel AND Copper Wires OR Fiber Optic Cables.

Agreed.

Bronzesmith: Gives Bronze Equipment. Part of my units plan; willing to hold this one till later.

yeah hold off till later.

Bunker: Requires Concrete.

Again Cement and Concrete are on in the same for C2C. Thus its already done.

Bus Station: Requires Automobiles AND Biofuels OR Oil Products.

Agreed.

Thanks for going over these I will see what I can get done. Note that the ones I set aside are not rejected, I just need to think about them more and how they should work.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Praetyre

1. Tweaked Ball Court, Barbwire Fence, Basketball Court, Basketweaver's Hut, Bath House, Bombard Tower, Boneworker's Hut, Booby Traps, Bowling Alley, Brahmin Library, Broadcast Tower, Bus Station and Doctor's Office.

2. The Boatyard is in the core I need to to give it the requirement of Canoe Builder OR Shipwright.

3. Ok bring on "C".

 

[Praetyre]

Calmacec: Requires Bricks.
Cannery: Requires Factory.
Cannon Forge: Requires Iron OR Sulphur and produces Cannon resource.
Canoe Builder's Hut: Requires Leather OR Prime Timber OR Wood. Requires Storage Pit OR Barter Post OR Trading Post.
Carpenter's Workshop: Requires Prime Timber OR Wood and produces Lumber resource.
Casino: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel. Requires Electricity, since it's clearly the sort of casino's that sprung up in Vegas in the fifties, not the Wild West clubs represented by Gambling Hall.
Castle: Requires Bricks AND Furniture. They are combination homes and fortresses, after all.
Cement Barrier: Requires Concrete.
Cereal Mills Factory: Requires Factory.
Chamber of Commerce: Does NOT Require Corporate (Welfare Civic), Requires Corporatist OR Free Market OR Green OR Regulated (Economy Civics), Requires Offices. The base form of such institutions can be found in any of the advanced economy civics, though I'm willing to hold off on this one for balance reasons or until a suitable Corporate-exclusive building can be made or found.
Chariot Workshop: Requires Barracks. Willing to hold this one till the units discussion.
Chateau: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel. Basic modern building materials, really.
Church of the State: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Lumber.
Church School: Requires Bricks ANd Furniture AND Lumber AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets. These are my four core recordkeeping materials, and I'm always open to suggesions for expansion on this front.
Cistern: Requires Bricks OR Marble OR Stone. Open to adding Cement/Concrete to these requirements.
City Council: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Concrete. Requires Bronze Working, NOT City Planning. Coincides well with Despotism and reflects the era of cities like Thebes and Babylon a lot better.
Civil Servant's School: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Lumber.
Colony Arcology: Requires Arcology. Might as well cut that monstrosity down a little.
Colosseum: Requires Bricks. Open to Lumber as an OR requirement, per CivCity Rome's wooden amphitheatres.
Commercial Airport: Requires Aircraft AND Concrete. At it's most basic, this is just a landing strip, and most other stuff is covered by Aircraft's requirements anyway.
Commercial Port: Requires Lumber. Open to Concrete, Stone as OR Requirements, on both this and most other dock buildings.
Commons: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Lumber.
Communication Tower: Requires Steel AND Copper Wires OR Fiber Optic Cables.
Community Garden: Requires Flowers. A weird one, but a basic one.
Computer Network: Requires Computers AND Copper Wires OR Fiber Optic Cables. Requires Offices, though I'm open to Shopping District as well.
Condominiums: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel.
Construction Firm: Requires Offices.
Control Center: Requires Garrison. Willing to hold till units.
Convention Center: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel.
Coricanha: Requires Bricks.
Cottages: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Lumber.
Courthouse: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Concrete OR Lumber. Willing to drop the Furniture requirement, as I suppose you could have a standing trial.
Crafts Hut: Requires Storage Pit OR Barter Post OR Trading Post.
Creative Constructions Contractors: Requires Offices.
Crucifixion Crosses: Requires Lumber.
Cryogenic Prison: Requires Chemicals AND Concrete AND Glassware AND Nanotubes. Chemicals are the preservatives, concrete is the prison itself, glassware and nanotubes make up the superstructure and the pods.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I will go over them all in detail later but one caught my eye...

Colony Arcology: Requires Arcology. Might as well cut that monstrosity down a little.

That doesn't make sense. The Colony Arcology is an upgrade of the Arcology and all of the Arcology buildings.

 

[Praetyre]

Alright then, the original requirements will do: Computers AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Semiconductors AND Nanotubes.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Calmacec: Requires Bricks.

Religious so under DH's control.

Cannery: Requires Factory.

I don't think the factory is invented yet. Factory comes at Manufacturing but Cannery comes at Food Preservation. Would not be fair to give it a factory req.

Cannon Forge: Requires Iron OR Sulphur and produces Cannon resource.

I think you mean Iron AND Sulphur, not OR. And not a bad ideas just not set up yet for a Cannon resource.

Canoe Builder's Hut: Requires Leather OR Prime Timber OR Wood. Requires Storage Pit OR Barter Post OR Trading Post.

I already changed this. Make sure you list is up to date.

Carpenter's Workshop: Requires Prime Timber OR Wood and produces Lumber resource.

I disagree. We already have enough wood and prime timber. We don't need a lumber resource too.

Casino: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel. Requires Electricity, since it's clearly the sort of casino's that sprung up in Vegas in the fifties, not the Wild West clubs represented by Gambling Hall.

Sounds fine i will see what I can do.

Castle: Requires Bricks AND Furniture. They are combination homes and fortresses, after all.

Castles require High Walls so cricks are redundant. However Furniture makes sense.

Cement Barrier: Requires Concrete.

Again Cement and Concrete are considered the same thing in C2C.

Cereal Mills Factory: Requires Factory.

In the core an a Corporation buildings so you can chnage that yourself.

Chamber of Commerce: Does NOT Require Corporate (Welfare Civic), Requires Corporatist OR Free Market OR Green OR Regulated (Economy Civics), Requires Offices. The base form of such institutions can be found in any of the advanced economy civics, though I'm willing to hold off on this one for balance reasons or until a suitable Corporate-exclusive building can be made or found.

This one should be posted in the civic topic or civic building topic.

Chariot Workshop: Requires Barracks. Willing to hold this one till the units discussion.

Chariots can be used for entertainment not just warfare. It should not require the Barracks.

Chateau: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel. Basic modern building materials, really.

Again a housing building. Putting aside for a later discussion.

Church of the State: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Lumber.

I guess.

Church School: Requires Bricks ANd Furniture AND Lumber AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets. These are my four core recordkeeping materials, and I'm always open to suggesions for expansion on this front.

The book/scroll stuff i agree with. The rest I am unsure of.

Cistern: Requires Bricks OR Marble OR Stone. Open to adding Cement/Concrete to these requirements.

I guess cement make sense.

City Council: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Concrete. Requires Bronze Working, NOT City Planning. Coincides well with Despotism and reflects the era of cities like Thebes and Babylon a lot better.

I disagree about Bronze Working. City Planning is all about having organized building locations such as a city council.

Civil Servant's School: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Lumber.

Hmm I guess. Seems like we should have a better way to do these schools.

Colony Arcology: Requires Arcology. Might as well cut that monstrosity down a little.

Already went over this.

Colosseum: Requires Bricks. Open to Lumber as an OR requirement, per CivCity Rome's wooden amphitheatres.

Agreed.

Commercial Airport: Requires Aircraft AND Concrete. At it's most basic, this is just a landing strip, and most other stuff is covered by Aircraft's requirements anyway.

Agreed.

Commercial Port: Requires Lumber. Open to Concrete, Stone as OR Requirements, on both this and most other dock buildings.

Hmm. This seems more advanced than the Port or Harbor. Maybe something like ...

Harbor = Wood
Port = Wood and Stone
Commercial Port = Stone OR Cement
International Port = Steel AND Cement

Commons: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Lumber.

Again a housing building. Putting aside for a later discussion.

Communication Tower: Requires Steel AND Copper Wires OR Fiber Optic Cables.

Agreed.

Community Garden: Requires Flowers. A weird one, but a basic one.

Disagree. This could grow anything not just flowers. Should not have a pre-req.

Computer Network: Requires Computers AND Copper Wires OR Fiber Optic Cables. Requires Offices, though I'm open to Shopping District as well.

I agree on the computers but not sure about the others. Already requires Telephone Network.

Condominiums: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel.

Again a housing building. Putting aside for a later discussion. Please stop posting the housing ones.

Construction Firm: Requires Offices.

Agreed.

Control Center: Requires Garrison. Willing to hold till units.

Ok put off this then.

Convention Center: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel.

Concrete and Steel at least. The rest should be optional.

Coricanha: Requires Bricks.

Religious so under DH's control.

Cottages: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Lumber.

Again a housing building. Putting aside for a later discussion.

Courthouse: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Concrete OR Lumber. Willing to drop the Furniture requirement, as I suppose you could have a standing trial.

Probably best since furniture comes later. You seem to have an obsession with the Furniture resource.

Crafts Hut: Requires Storage Pit OR Barter Post OR Trading Post.

Already done. Please update your list.

Creative Constructions Contractors: Requires Offices.

Part of the core and a corporation building. Up to you to fix.

Crucifixion Crosses: Requires Lumber.

Not having lumber a s separate resource so Wood OR Prime Timber works just fine.

Cryogenic Prison: Requires Chemicals AND Concrete AND Glassware AND Nanotubes. Chemicals are the preservatives, concrete is the prison itself, glassware and nanotubes make up the superstructure and the pods.

Already has chemicals, the others maybe I will have to think about it.

 

[Praetyre]

Religious so under DH's control.

Ah, forget about that one... would they still be under his control if when he officially leaves the C2C team and goes off to make his own modmod?

I don't think the factory is invented yet. Factory comes at Manufacturing but Cannery comes at Food Preservation. Would not be fair to give it a factory req.

What about Trading Post OR Factory, then?

I think you mean Iron AND Sulphur, not OR. And not a bad ideas just not set up yet for a Cannon resource.

Alright, I'm willing to hold this till units. And yep, I did mean it as an AND requirement, sorry for that typo.

I already changed this. Make sure you list is up to date.

My apologies, tis updated now.

I disagree. We already have enough wood and prime timber. We don't need a lumber resource too.

The way I figure it, it helps cut down a lot on excess OR requirements, like Bricks does by including stone and obsidian.

In the core an a Corporation buildings so you can chnage that yourself.

Done.

This one should be posted in the civic topic or civic building topic.

I'll hold it off with the others, then.

Chariots can be used for entertainment not just warfare. It should not require the Barracks.

How about Trading Post and Lumber, then?

I disagree about Bronze Working. City Planning is all about having organized building locations such as a city council.

I've come around more to across to DH's way of thinking when it comes to slotting building requirements, and I see 13/20 in my private version as the pinnacle of Ancient era settlements. Thebes had a mayor, after all.

Hmm I guess. Seems like we should have a better way to do these schools.

We could have them under the Barter/Trading Post-Offices line instead.

Hmm. This seems more advanced than the Port or Harbor. Maybe something like ...

Harbor = Wood
Port = Wood and Stone
Commercial Port = Stone OR Cement
International Port = Steel AND Cement

Sounds good to me, though with the obvious Lumber caveat on my front.

Disagree. This could grow anything not just flowers. Should not have a pre-req.

Alright then, that seems reasonable.

I agree on the computers but not sure about the others. Already requires Telephone Network.

My apologies, my memory was faulty. Computers and Offices it is, then.

Concrete and Steel at least. The rest should be optional.

I'm fine with this.

Probably best since furniture comes later. You seem to have an obsession with the Furniture resource.

Well, I just figured it needed greater utilization I'm fine with dropping it as a requirement for this one.

Already done. Please update your list.

Done

Part of the core and a corporation building. Up to you to fix.

Done.

Already has chemicals, the others maybe I will have to think about it.

Prisons are "civic" buildings, hence the additionals. Outside of Dilbert, I can't think of many societies that have them in an interchangable format with shopping districts or offices.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ah, forget about that one... would they still be under his control if when he officially leaves the C2C team and goes off to make his own modmod?

I don't think he is leaving unless I missed some post about it. If he totally left the team forever I guess we would have to step in and maintain his stuff. However I sure hope that doesn't happen any time soon.

I've come around more to across to DH's way of thinking when it comes to slotting building requirements, and I see 13/20 in my private version as the pinnacle of Ancient era settlements. Thebes had a mayor, after all.

Thebes was also quite an organized city in its layout. Thus the City Planning aspect.

What about Trading Post OR Factory, then?

I guess, maybe. Seems like your trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

The way I figure it, it helps cut down a lot on excess OR requirements, like Bricks does by including stone and obsidian.

I already said that "bricks" represent the clay kind. Not stone slabs or even cinder blocks.

How about Trading Post and Lumber, then?

This already has Wheelwright and Stables requirements I think it becomes redundant for the other stuff.

We could have them under the Barter/Trading Post-Offices line instead.

But schools are not really commercial at all. They should not have to depend upon a trading post.

 

[Praetyre]

I don't think he is leaving unless I missed some post about it. If he totally left the team forever I guess we would have to step in and maintain his stuff. However I sure hope that doesn't happen any time soon.

I thought he mentioned in a past topic that some unspecified part of the mod's direction was annoying him and he felt the need to leave and start his own modmod to make some of the changes he felt he couldn't make as a team member.

Thebes was also quite an organized city in its layout. Thus the City Planning aspect.

Okay, I'll drop this, since it comes into housing and my confusion regarding Ancient v. Classical eras.

I guess, maybe. Seems like your trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Well, if you can have a brewery in a shopping district building's basement, why not a cannery? Doesn't have to be on a big factory scale either; could be an operation with a dozen or fewer folk.

I already said that "bricks" represent the clay kind. Not stone slabs or even cinder blocks.

I know that, but I was giving my own perspective on the matter, which is that expanding bricks to include stone and cinder blocks and other such materials can greatly cut down on unnecessary OR requirement bloat.

This already has Wheelwright and Stables requirements I think it becomes redundant for the other stuff.

Mea culpa, I forgot about the Wheelwright. Will leave as is, then.

But schools are not really commercial at all. They should not have to depend upon a trading post.

The Trading Post is essentially a collection of interchangable generic buildings that can be used to house all kinds of shops and businesses, and I don't think education buildings were civic in pre-Industrial times; some would be based out of castles and abbeys, some would be individual tutors travelling with nobles, some would be housed in the cities, like the Egyptian scribes schools. I'm fine with it either way; it's a minor stickling point at best.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I thought he mentioned in a past topic that some unspecified part of the mod's direction was annoying him and he felt the need to leave and start his own modmod to make some of the changes he felt he couldn't make as a team member.

Do you know which post? I have been busy over the last few weeks and have only got to skim most topics except for this one and the tech tree one.

Okay, I'll drop this, since it comes into housing and my confusion regarding Ancient v. Classical eras.

Honestly Egypt in general was WAY ahead in technology compared to the rest of the world.

The Trading Post is essentially a collection of interchangable generic buildings that can be used to house all kinds of shops and businesses, and I don't think education buildings were civic in pre-Industrial times; some would be based out of castles and abbeys, some would be individual tutors travelling with nobles, some would be housed in the cities, like the Egyptian scribes schools. I'm fine with it either way; it's a minor stickling point at best.

Well I wonder if we should have them require other education or religious buildings such as a Library, University, Monastery or School.

 

[Praetyre]

Do you know which post? I have been busy over the last few weeks and have only got to skim most topics except for this one and the tech tree one.

Unfortunately I can't seem to find it in his thread history. He may have since rescinded that statement, but I thought he was largely on the team now in a bugfixing capacity, and had withdrawn from the more creative side of it for his own projects.

Honestly Egypt in general was WAY ahead in technology compared to the rest of the world.

The Middle East in general was on a higher peg, as was Mycenaea, the Minoans, the Sea Peoples and the Xia and Shang Chinese. That's the trouble with using a Eurocentric model of history; it breaks down once you go further back than the First Olympiad, and is honestly only really sustainable before the end of classical antiquity if you go for a very heavily Greco-Roman centric view as well.

Well I wonder if we should have them require other education or religious buildings such as a Library, University, Monastery or School.

Libraries are rarely used to hold classes in, for obvious reasons; universities and monasteries are possibles but schools might come too late to avoid running into obsolescence issues.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Unfortunately I can't seem to find it in his thread history. He may have since rescinded that statement, but I thought he was largely on the team now in a bugfixing capacity, and had withdrawn from the more creative side of it for his own projects.

He made that statement quite a while back now and though I don't think I've ever seen him say anything more about it, I don't get the feeling he's anywhere near leaving at this time.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@all I am on temporary hold at the moment - my Mum is coming to visit so I need to get things in order. Like move the bench saw out of the lounge room. I think I have half a fix for the on going volcano problem so I am doing bug fixes and the like. I am also about 1/4 through getting the slave (units and specialists) changes done. Everything else I can't work on anyway because of the problems I am having with Missions and Outcomes or the problem with new modules.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Praetyre

1. Tweaked Casino, Cistern, Colosseum, Harbor, Port, Commercial Port, International Port, Church of the State, Church School, Civil Servant's School, Communication Tower, Computer Network, Convention Center and Cryogenic Prison.

2. The Commercial Airport is in the core so you will have to change it.

3. You can start posting "D" I guess.

 

[Praetyre]

I've tweaked the Commercial Airport; tis now in the SVN.

Dairy Barn: Requires Iron OR Lumber OR Tin OR Steel
Design Studio: Requires Offices
Dining Hall: Requires Lumber
Donkey Mill: Requires Grain AND Lumber
Druglord's Mansion: Requires Mansions
Drydock: Requires Cement AND Steel, Garrison

 

[Nimek]

Can we change Cement Wall name to Concrete Wall please?

In fact this wall is not made from cement only. It has stell construction with cement. Cement wall sounds odd. Concrete Wall sounds good and powerfull.

 

[Hanny]

http://www.cement.org/basics/concretebasics_faqs.asp

Nothing wrong, except your use of terminology.

 

[Nimek]

Ok i know. Concrete is a mixture of cement water and sand. So its obvious Wall is Concrete Wall not cement.

 

[Hanny]

Hittite and Roman use was different, as is modern reinforcing with steel rebar rods or cages, which has been surpased by steel fiber mixed into concrete.