A Not So Modest Proposal Regarding Buildings, Resources and Units

[Thunderbrd]

Yes i love the idea that we will have equipment resources connected with equipment promotions.
Thunderbird when we will see first version of your combat mod?

Do you give ma a pleasure to see my transhuman time equipment promos in that mod?

Of course! At least, I'll review them and do all I can to include them. I may need to adjust them a bit. Also, keep in mind that they will be developed in era order so it'll take a bit to get that far in.

As for a timetable, I'm rapidly closing in now on completion of the dll structure for the Combat Mod... I may even have to delay a final SVN merge until we're out of the current freeze. But there's a LOT of xml and graphic work, and probably even some debugging or refining on the coding to follow so it will still take a lot of time from there to have anything close to a final version.

I'm willing to leave the equipment buildings till we get to units. Suffice to say that, yes, it is a new resource, and it represents Iron Age (i.e. Classical) weapons and armour and would be required to produce most non-irregular units of the time. Your promotion system is probably better, though, so we'll cross this bridge when we come to it.

Include them now so I can just build into it. But it would work best if we don't make units themselves conditional on anything more than the minimum quality of weapon/armor types such a unit would utilize. Thus, if you can have a bone or wood sword and thick cloth armor to be a swordsman, you should still be able to build swordsmen without access to metal. But then again, the stats for units should eventually adjust to reflect that but for now, I'm going to assume that the stats are mostly reflective of strategies, weapon style effectiveness, refinement of tactics with that basic equipment set, overall hardiness from advancements in training etc...

Units won't be using vastly different weapons and armors than they are assumed to carry already. The range of improvements are limited. I'm going to try to avoid the elimination of any units we currently have initially and allow for any further editing down of unit upgrades in favor of equipment upgrades instead to be a matter for consideration down the road. One unit chain that really highlights itself to me for such consideration might be the clubman/spiked clubman/ironwood clubman set, but I think I can even work some equipment variation into them as they are.

But about the buildings and resources (resources being one of the chief determining factors in what equipment access your units might have) I was just asking because I'm going to need to take note of those changes and weave the existence of those new resources into the design of the equipment promos themselves. In fact, they set me up quite nicely

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Praetyre

1. Tweaked Garbage Collection Agency, Department of Motor Vehicles, Homing Pigeon Coop, Hospital, Hotel, Hydroponics Lab, Jail, Insane Asylum, Interrogation Building and Engineering School.

2. Granary is in the core so pleas chnage. Since there is no Lumber resource please have it be Bricks OR Wood OR Prime Timber.

3. I would have added the Ice Rink but I think it needs different requirements, however I do not know what yet.

4. Ok post the next set.

 

[Praetyre]

@Praetyre

1. Tweaked Garbage Collection Agency, Department of Motor Vehicles, Homing Pigeon Coop, Hospital, Hotel, Hydroponics Lab, Jail, Insane Asylum, Interrogation Building and Engineering School.

Marked em all down, thanks.

2. Granary is in the core so pleas chnage. Since there is no Lumber resource please have it be Bricks OR Wood OR Prime Timber.

It's now in the SVN.

4. Ok post the next set.

Since the Keep Tower is already done, I'll start with L;
Landmines: Requires Ammunition AND Parts AND Steel, requires Factory, does not go obsolete.
Levee: Requires Concrete
Library: Requires Bricks AND Furniture (OR Requirements unchanged)
Lighthouse: Requires Bricks AND Glassware OR Plastics OR Nanotubes. Gotta have something for the light itself, after all.
Local Courthouse: Requires Bricks OR Concrete OR Lumber.
Local Radio Station: Requires Broadcast Tower OR Communications Tower
Lumbermill: Requires Bricks AND Copper OR Iron OR Steel OR Titanium, requires Lumber Camp, produces Lumber.
M;

Spoiler :

Marina: Requires Concrete OR Iron OR Lumber OR Steel
Mathematics Academy: Requires Academy OR Trading Post OR University
Meat Packing Plant: Requires Factory AND Slaughterhouse
Mech Assembly: Requires Computer Network AND Factory
Meeting Hall: Requires Bricks OR Lumber
Metropolitan Administration: Requires Bricks OR Concrete, Requires City Planning, NOT Social Contract (per Alexandria and Rome)
MileHigh Travels International Franchise: Requires Offices
Military Academy: Requires University
Military Airbase: Requires Concrete AND Glassware AND Steel, requires Garrison
Mind-Control Center: Requires Offices
Mining Inc. Survey: Requires Offices
Minor League Stadium: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Steel
Missile Lab: Requires Ammunition AND Computers AND Concrete AND Steel
Modern Embalmer: Requires Chemicals AND Bricks OR Concrete
Modern Granary: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Concrete
Monorail Station: Requires Concrete AND Glassware AND Nanotubes OR Steel
Monument of the Dictator: Requires Sculptures AND Bricks OR Concrete OR Lumber OR Marble
Movie Theatre: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Concrete OR Lumber
Museum: Requires Glassware AND Bricks OR Concrete
Mystic's Hut: Requires Storage Pit OR Trading Post

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Lighthouse: Requires Bricks AND Glassware OR Plastics OR Nanotubes. Gotta have something for the light itself, after all.

Mot at all sure that the Great Lighthouse used glass at all. Wasn't it "just" a fire at the top of a tower.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Didn't it use a central firepit and then later to help focus and provide direction polished brass/copper panels were used?

Glass came much much later.

JosEPh

 

[ls612]

Didn't it use a central firepit and then later to help focus and provide direction polished brass/copper panels were used?

Glass came much much later.

JosEPh

Yes, it did. It should require Copper OR Gold OR Glass.

 

[Faustmouse]

Yes, it did. It should require Copper OR Gold OR Glass.

AND Timber OR Primetimber (OR maybe Wool) to keep the fire burning.

Is it possible to get resource-reqs obsolte? Ie if you have electricity you won't use fire to light it. But adding a new "modern lighthouse" seems a little unuseful...

 

[ls612]

AND Timber OR Primetimber (OR maybe Wool) to keep the fire burning.

Is it possible to get resource-reqs obsolte? Ie if you have electricity you won't use fire to light it. But adding a new "modern lighthouse" seems a little unuseful...

Adding Prime Timber as a prereq seems a bit too restrictive IMO. In my most recent game I've only seen three of those in the entire map.

 

[Faustmouse]

Thats why it is an OR req. I think it would be silly if you say you can't burn Primetimber. But I think you will ALWAYS have normal Timber, so you could just skip the Primetimber prereq.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I think that choke point buildings may need an indicator on their icon to show how important it is that they be built.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I think that choke point buildings may need an indicator on their icon to show how important it is that they be built.

Like what? And what determines how important hey are? One could say a Graveyard is important because it has a lot of buildings that depend upon it.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Praetyre

1. Landmines comes much too early for steel, parts or factories. It comes at Explosives tech which means around the time of Flintlock technology. Totally pre-Industrial era. I think its fine wit the requirements I have.

2. Levee is in the core so you will need to change it.

3. Tweaked Lighthouse, Local Courthouse, Local Radio Station and Lumbermill.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

OK, I have figured out why I am having so much trouble with these changes - I am testing slaves. Which means I have to use the Slavery civic which means I never get to build a Barter Post. Which means that there is a long time between some buildings showing up in the tech and becoming available to build because I need a Trading Post which is not available until tech Trade!

Also limiting the forge so much may be a problem. I only have one city of 8 which can build it and that was by luck. Forge has a wonder that requires it Colossus.

 

[Praetyre]

I believe there are presently tentative plans to make slavery into an entirely seperate civic category altogether, rather than being an economic civic. This would sidestep the issue, no?

As for the Forge, all I did was add Charcoal as an OR resource (or could have been the other way round, long time since I've seen it's original form) and switch the resource requirements to requiring buildings that need those resources anyway, so I'm not sure my plan's impacted the structure's availability.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

As for the Forge, all I did was add Charcoal as an OR resource (or could have been the other way round, long time since I've seen it's original form) and switch the resource requirements to requiring buildings that need those resources anyway, so I'm not sure my plan's impacted the structure's availability.

I had charcoal but could only build the forge in a city where I also had a copper mine. Copper being the only metal I have.

 

[Hydromancerx]

As for the Forge, all I did was add Charcoal as an OR resource (or could have been the other way round, long time since I've seen it's original form) and switch the resource requirements to requiring buildings that need those resources anyway, so I'm not sure my plan's impacted the structure's availability.

The problem is you had me chnage it to the mines in the city vicinity. Instead of just the ore resources. Before it was Charcoal AND (Copper OR Iron OR Tin OR Lead OR Gold OR Silver).

But now with Charcoal OR Coal AND (Copper Mine OR Iron Mine OR Tin Mine OR Lead Mine OR Gold Mine OR Silver Mine), the cities become more rare. Plus Coal comes so much later that the forge would probably be already replaced by the foundry by then.

Even if the Forge was changed back the Foundry has the same requirements which means it would become super rare still.

I suggest we chnage them back and not require the city vicinity buildings. What do you think?

 

[Praetyre]

Ah, I'd forgotten about the trade link-city vicinity difference. Very well, I'm fine with changing it back; small price to pay for proper balance.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Praetyre

1. Tweaked Mathematics Academy, Meat Packing Plant, Mech Assembly, Meeting Hall, Military Airbase. Airfield, Aerospace Complex, Mind-Control Center, Minor League Stadium, Missile Lab, Monorail Station, Monument of the Dictator, Movie Theater and Museum.

2. MileHigh Travels International Franchise and Mining Inc. Survey are corporation buildings so you will need to chnage them.

3. Military Academy is in the core so you will need to chnage it.

4. Modern Granary is in the core but chnage it to Steel AND Cement.

5. Post the next set.

 

[Praetyre]

Done all of these, they are now in the latest SVN, including your modified Modern Granary changes. I am unfortunately unable to access the mod; for some odd reason it simply doesn't load up halfway through the XML. No error messages, no crashes, no nothing, it just stops.

Nanofactory: Requires Factory
Naval Academy: Requires University
Naval Yard: Requires Garrison
Network Node: Requires Computer Network
Nomad Granary: Requires Bricks OR Lumber
O:

Spoiler :

Obelisk: Requires Bricks
Observatory: Requires Glassware AND Bricks OR Lumber OR Steel
Oil Derrick: Requires Nanotubes OR Steel OR Titanium
Oil Refinery: Requires Factory
Olive Press: Requires Lumber
Opera House: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Lumber
Orbital Factory: Requires Factory AND Modern Granary
Oxen Mill: Requires Lumber

P:

Spoiler :

Palace Walls: Requires Bricks OR Concrete
Palisade: Requires Lumber
Paper Factory: Requires Chemicals AND Prime Timber OR Wood
Paper Maker: Requires Dye AND Cloth OR Hemp OR Papyrus OR Wood
Park Arcology: Requires Computers AND Furniture AND Nanotubes
Parking Meters: Requires Chemicals OR Glassware AND Steel
Parts Plant: Requires Aluminum OR Iron OR Nanotubes OR Steel OR Titanium
Paved Roads: Requires Bricks OR Lumber
Pirate's Cove: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Lumber
Plague Hospital: Requires Bricks AND Furniture
Planning Office: Requires Offfices
Polis Council: Requires Town Hall OR City Hall OR Metropolitan Administration OR Capital Administration
Potter's Hut: Requires Storage Pit OR Barter Post OR Trading Post
Power Lines: Requires Parts AND Concrete OR Lumber OR Steel
Presidential Monument: Requires Bricks
Press Agency: Requires Offices
Public Pool: Requires Bricks

 

[Taxman66]

Why do Palace Walls require Concrete? Isn't that a bit too modern a requirement as I recall the tech for Palace Walls comes in early Classic.