A Not So Modest Proposal Regarding Buildings, Resources and Units

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It does depend on how the diplomacy mod goes. Rhetoric is what leaders, lawyers and politicians need to get their message across. Perhaps a new set of buildings for "Public Speaking", "Marketing" and "Acting" may replace the School of Rhetoric but I bet Cicero would take to TV like a fish to water.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Well were to you feel the following building fall into?

- School of Rhetoric
- Courthouse
- Law School
- Law Firm
- Forum
- Town Hall
- Local Courthouse (A RoM/AND Building)

How should the depend upon each other if at all? Should any upgrade into one another?

 

[Praetyre]

So, would now be a good time to move on to the next letter, or do you think we should discuss the Housing requirements issue first?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Not really. I have been busy with RL stuff and have not had time to work on anything C2C. Sorry.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Praetyre
1. I tweaked Chop Shop, Ethanol Station, Fairgrounds, Farmer's Market, Gas Station, Liquor Store, Night Club, Video Game Arcade, Trading Post and Shopping District.

2. The Farmer's Market was moved to Guilds since you first made your list so I added the Trading Post too as a requirement.

Trading Post (Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Lumber)

3. Furniture comes later at Aesthetics tech while the Trading Post comes at Trade tech. So I left off the Furniture requirement.

Shopping District (Furniture AND Glassware AND Bricks OR Concrete)

4. Since the Trading Post did no have furniture I left it off this too.

5. I will try to get some more done before the next release. Make sure you check off your list for the ones I did do so far so when we go over more you are not posting the same ones twice.

EDIT: I noticed you have a lot that require "Prehistoric Housing". There are too many to pin down one prehistoric house. Can you think of another new prehistoric building to fill the role?

 

[Praetyre]

@Praetyre
1. I tweaked Chop Shop, Ethanol Station, Fairgrounds, Farmer's Market, Gas Station, Liquor Store, Night Club, Video Game Arcade, Trading Post and Shopping District.

Cool, I've got them all checked now.

2. The Farmer's Market was moved to Guilds since you first made your list so I added the Trading Post too as a requirement.

Alrighty.

4. Since the Trading Post did no have furniture I left it off this too.

It is a modern building, though I'd like to have it and other "infrastructure" buildings like Factories available for free on Modern and later starts.

EDIT: I noticed you have a lot that require "Prehistoric Housing". There are too many to pin down one prehistoric house. Can you think of another new prehistoric building to fill the role?

Perhaps have all Prehistoric housing buildings give an otherwise useless Good building of their own, and tie the requirements to that.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Perhaps have all Prehistoric housing buildings give an otherwise useless Good building of their own, and tie the requirements to that.

What about just requiring the Storage Pit instead? It comes early (Gathering) and doesn't get replaced until long after the Barter Post is around.

- Storage Pit (Gathering)
- Barter Post (Barter)
- Granary (Pottery)
- Trading Post (Trade)

Storage Pit -> Granary
Barter Post -> Trading Post

Pottery -> The Wheel -> Trade

 

[Praetyre]

That seems reasonable, since these buildings at their most basic level would be the processes involved in these technologies, not actual physical structures.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Praetyre

1. I tweaked the Bakery, Barber Shop, Butchery, Cheese Shop, Farm Supply, Gemcutter, Mob Storefront, Perfume Maker, Pet Shop, Pinball Arcade and Tattoo Parlor.

2. The Fur Farm is DH's so you will need to ask him.

3. The Bank and Slave Market are in the core file, so you will have to chnage them.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

At the moment Fur Farm can only be built by an animal and is only in existence for about 100 years before becoming obsolete. I save one subdued beaver (or koala) just for the purpose of building it. However as I have said, you can do it modular just like the religion buildings.

On a similar topic, at the moment Amber is not used very well, if at all. I am thinking

1) Rename the Amber resource to Raw Amber which dose not provide anything but its plot bonuses
2) Have a vicinity building Amber Gatherer requires Amber in the vicinity and Carving and Bead Making tech and some prehistoric housing building. Provides Amber.
3) Trading Post gives +1 with Raw Amber
4) Bead maker gives +1 with Raw Amber
5) Jewelery +1 with Amber

Similarly for Jade with the Jade Gatherer upgrading to the Jade Mine. Both of these are soft stones, well amber is a resin and can be burned as incense also, that have been used a lot earlier than the hard gems.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Praetyre

1. Tweaked Canoe Builder's Hut, Crafts Hut, Dance Hut, Dance Hall, Fisherman Hut, Fishmonger, Fletcher's Hut, Hat Shop, Healer's Hut, Mask Carver's Hut, Music Hut, Poison Crafter's Hut, Rope Weaver's Hut, Sail Weaver, Seamstress's Hut, Smokehouse, Storyteller's Hut, Tannery, Tattoo Hut and Woodcarver's Hut.

2. The Hawking Hut, Shell Worker's Hut and Snake Charmer are all DH's so you will have to ask him.

 

[Thunderbrd]

My wife noted the other day in her own game that there's a bit of confusing discontinuity in the enclosure buildings that the animals make... some require carnivals, others don't and there doesn't seem to be any cause for the disassociation on some.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Buildings seem to be going obsolete a lot earlier or just down right disappearing. Is that what these "tweaks" are doing?

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

My wife noted the other day in her own game that there's a bit of confusing discontinuity in the enclosure buildings that the animals make... some require carnivals, others don't and there doesn't seem to be any cause for the disassociation on some.

In general enclosures require a zoo or carnival. However a few have the Governor' Menagerie as an "or" requirement. Currently this is Big Cats, Bears and Birds.

I really should link this latter requirement to base culture something like:-
- Africa would have Big Cats, Exotic Herbivours and Birds
- Asia/Europe/Middle East would have Wolves, Bears and Birds
- North America East would have Rodents, Bears and Birds
- South America would have Rodents, Exotic Herbivours and Birds
- Oceania Marsupials, Reptiles and Birds.

I would need to XP change the bonuses on them though.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Buildings seem to be going obsolete a lot earlier or just down right disappearing. Is that what these "tweaks" are doing?

JosEPh

They should not go obsolete early. I have tweaked many of the guidelines to go much longer than Praetyre proposed by adding some to the "OR Shopping District" requirement if their obsolete tech appears after the Shopping District gets unlocked. However this may chnage in the future if Factory versions of those buildings get made.

As for "disappearing", if you don't build the next building in line you may have a time where you can't build stuff such as if you don't build a Trading Post before the Barter Post goes obsolete.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Yes, discovering a tech now causes healthy cities to suddenly become unhealthy because you no longer have access flour when the quern goes obsolete and you need to build a wind/water mill somewhere for example! Some of my cities when from very healthy to 5 when I discovered Machinery. IMO this is not good. Buildings that upgrade should not go obsolete and the upgrade should be worthwhile building. I am finding this with many of the housing buildings that occur about the time get Machinery they add nothing just clutter the build queues and replace older buildings.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Well this should Most certainly make the Deity and above players Very Happy.

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The current setup is causing me problems. When I settle a new city I fast build a rope maker and a charchol burner right away using a early merchant and a trade caravan. Now they aren't appearing in the build queue.

 

[JosEPh_II]

It's not just you DH.
Can't get War Dogs after you build Barracks and War dog building. Fletcher's Hut has disappeared too. I had Rope builder after getting Sailing tech and was getting set up for Shipwrights and Sail Maker for getting galleys. Now Shipwright, and Sail maker has disappeared too. So @1020 BC I'm still just building Canoes. Not good for a water dominate map where sailing techs and upgrade to boats are essential.

There are more but this is all I hurriedly wrote down.

This current game is rapidly become a fubared mess.

JosEPh

 

[ls612]

It's not just you DH.
Can't get War Dogs after you build Barracks and War dog building. Fletcher's Hut has disappeared too. I had Rope builder after getting Sailing tech and was getting set up for Shipwrights and Sail Maker for getting galleys. Now Shipwright, and Sail maker has disappeared too. So @1020 BC I'm still just building Canoes. Not good for a water dominate map where sailing techs and upgrade to boats are essential.

There are more but this is all I hurriedly wrote down.

This current game is rapidly become a fubared mess.

JosEPh

Ah, the joys of using the modders/unstable version of C2C.

Although, I find that if I bookmark 'more stable' SVN revisions it makes my playing experience so much better. Then again, we need some playtesters to make the sacrifice and play with unstable stuff so that we can find and fix bugs like this.