A Not So Modest Proposal Regarding Buildings, Resources and Units

[Nimek]

Copper Mine improvement on a plot and buildings a Copper Mine building in a city is how its suppose to be.

I dont understand this idea? I always think that civ is real empire/ cities simulation. In reality mines was always outside the city (tile improvement) not inside (city building). What is the goal to have two of them one inside and one outside the city?

Few post before DH write avesome idea how to fix that situation and add another economy depth to the game.

- Apples + Potatoes = Tomato Farm

How it have their imitation in reality? None i think. I love the idea of buildings depending on resources in city vincinity but only when they are inspirated by real life and history. Like DH idea.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I dont understand this idea? I always think that civ is real empire/ cities simulation. In reality mines was always outside the city (tile improvement) not inside (city building). What is the goal to have two of them one inside and one outside the city?

The goal was to allow for more types of "resources". Since we could not possibly add every single type of resource on the map I went the building route. By having A resource + C resource = C resource we are able to add so many new types of resources with out actually having them on the map.

However there were complaints early on that they could build say a building for A + B = but what about a building for A and a building for B? That's why every map resource also has a building too.

Some enable more than one type of building as well such as Sheep unlock Sheep Farm, Goat Farm and Muflon Hunter's Camp.

In a perfect world the map resources would not give a tradable resource but only unlock the city vicinity buildings. This would fix the so called "double benefit".

How it have their imitation in reality? None i think. I love the idea of buildings depending on resources in city vincinity but only when they are inspirated by real life and history. Like DH idea.

Think of the buildings you can make in a city representing what is in their fat cross. Not everything is in the city itself (ex Farms, Fishing Nets, Hunting Camps, etc). However the game is still highly abstracted and I think we give too little credit to our own imaginations in filling in the gaps.

In watching the various Let's Play videos I have seen people fill in the gaps with their own explanations if something don't make complete sense or things just randomly fall into place. This is great for modders since we can get the player to to part of the illusion for us.

Few post before DH write avesome idea how to fix that situation and add another economy depth to the game.

In short I don't mind supplementing my ideas with DHs (which from what I have read seems like they are just adding on). But the city vicinity stuff is staying. ts part of the core that I always wanted to add to RoM/AND and one reason why C2C was originally made. They are not going to be taken out as long as I am modding for C2C.

No to mention they took months (if not years) to make them all. I would say about 50% of my buildings have been city vicinity buildings. C2C would not be the same without them.

EDIT: If you could not tell I am highly protective of them since they are my favorite type of building to make.

 

[Praetyre]

Alright then, new buildings it is;

Alchemists Lab: Requires Trading Post
Antique Shop: Requires Trading Post OR Shopping District
Apothecary Shop: Requires Trading Post
Balloon Rides: Requires Cloth AND Rope AND Wood
Billboards: Requires Computers OR Paper
Blimp Advertising: Requires Cloth AND Glassware AND Hydrogen AND Iron OR Steel OR Titanium
Book Store: Requires Trading Post OR Shopping District
Brass Instrument Maker: Requires Storage Pit OR Barter Post OR Trading Post OR Shopping District
Brothel: Requires Barter Post OR Trading Post OR Shopping District
Coffee Shop: Requires Trading Post OR Shopping District
Comicbook Store: Requires Trading Post OR Shopping District
Cothon: Requires Lumber
Dive Bar: Requires Shopping District
Electric Street Lights: Requires Fiberglass AND Steel
Electrician's Workshop: Requires Shopping District
Forensics Lab: Requires Hospital OR Laboratory AND Police Station
Galactic Cantina: Requires Shopping District
Gambling Den: Requires Barter Post OR Trading Post
Learning Center: Requires School
Mystics Hut: Requires Storage Pit OR Barter Post OR Trading Post
Plumber's Workshop: Requires Trading Post OR Shopping District
Pocket Monsters Store: Requires Shopping District
Police Station: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Concrete
Post Office: Requires Trading Post OR Modern Offices
Pub: Requires Trading Post OR Shopping District
Revivalist Church: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Road Signs: Requires Steel
Robotics Lab: Requires Laboratory OR University
Roller Derby Track: Requires Cement
Sausage Shop: Requires Trading Post OR Shopping District
School of Rhetoric: Requires Barter Post OR Trading Post OR University
Scotland Yard: Requires Skyscraper
Seal Maker: Requires Barter Post OR Trading Post
Squatter Camps: Requires Lumber
Traffic Signals: Requires Fiberglass AND Steel

 

[Hydromancerx]

Just skimming the list I can tell you the following ...

1. School of Rhetoric, Balloon Rides and Blimp Advertising are DH's so you will need to ask him.

Scotland Yard: Requires Skyscraper

2. Why a skyscraper?

3. Pocket Monsters Store is Vokarya's so you need to ask him.

4. Galactic Cantina should probby be set aside for now since I have no idea what type of other buildings will be around in the Galactic Era.

 

[Thunderbrd]

EDIT: If you could not tell I am highly protective of them since they are my favorite type of building to make.

I think you deserve to be. Those are some of the neatest building innovations in C2C imho. What a cunning way to include so many more resources than the map can handle, make them odd and rare bonuses and challenge a player to think even harder on where to build cities to combine as many resources in the cross as possible? Wonderful depth man!

I'd defend those buildings as stoutly as you.

 

[Nimek]

@thubder and hydro
So the DH idea to rename metal mines to metal workshops and add them ability to produce metal resource from metal ore is not good to you?

Players will be confused that to have metal resource they must

1 build mine on resource
2 build metal mine building in city
3 build metal workshop in city

I just want to delete step 2 because it will be confusing for new players
(they will not understand why they must build two mines of one type)

 

[Praetyre]

The Skyscraper is because Scotland Yard is a fairly tall office building; I'm happy to have Modern Offices OR Skyscraper.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@thubder and hydro
So the DH idea to rename metal mines to metal workshops and add them ability to prouce metal resource from metal ore is not good to you?

Players will be confused that to have metal resource they must

1 build mine on resource
2 build metal mine building in city
3 build metal workshop in city

I just want to delete step 2 because it will be confusing for new players

Well a drastic step would be to turn all metals into terrain features. Then the only way to get the metals would be to build the mine building.

While less redundant I do not think we should do this. And its not that confusing when you go like this ...

1. You have a Resource on the map.
2. You Build the Improvement on the Resource.
3. This unlocks the City Vicinity Building for that Resource.
4. This unlocks a processing building which requires the city vicinity building and the resource.
5. This processing building now produces a new resource that can only be built by the processing building.

Its only a little confusing that the City Vicinity Building is not giving a resource. But actually sometimes we do. Such as if you have lemons you can build a Lemon Orchard which gives you "Fruit" resource. This resource gives bonus to other buildings and even unlocks some.

I suppose what we really need is the equivalent of "Fruit" for the metals. Such as just "Ore". This would work the same as fruit can could be given to all metal mines. Thus giving the city vicinity buildings more of a purpose.

 

[Flinx]

Alright then, new buildings it is;

Alchemists Lab: Requires Trading Post
........
........
........
Squatter Camps: Requires Lumber
Traffic Signals: Requires Fiberglass AND Steel

I miss the addition of power as a prereq, here are two examples:
Robotics Lab: Requires Laboratory AND University AND Power
Electric Street Lights: Requires Glassware AND Steel AND Power
I think you get the idea.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Blimp Advertising: Requires Cloth AND Glassware AND Hydrogen AND Iron OR Steel OR Titanium
Brass Instrument Maker: Requires Storage Pit OR Barter Post OR Trading Post OR Shopping District
Comic Book Store: Requires Trading Post OR Shopping District
Revivalist Church: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets

Most of these have too many preqs, or lacks the right one(s).
Blimp doesn't need glass or steel or titanium
Brass Instruments does not need Storage pit.
Comic Book Store needs Paper
Revivalist Church does not need Glassware, or Brick, or Tablets.

In fact, what is up with routing almost every building thru Barter and Trade posts? Overall way too constricted, it just keeps adding more steps to get to a needed (and sometimes basic) item.

JosEPh

 

[Taxman66]

Personally, and as someone relatively new to C2C, I half agree with Nimek and half with Hydro.

I like the resource combination unlocking new 'vicinity' buildings.

On the otherhand, I'm not in favor of the buildings that appear in name as nothing more than duplicates. The ones that are similar (Horse Farm vs. Horse Pasture) are only slightly less so. It just seems excessively redundant to have to build a horse farm before you build a horse trainer if you've already got a tile pasture. Same goes for the mines. I spent the last game busting my head and the 'pedia trying to figure out why I couldn't build a gem cutter when I had a tile mine on a gem resource (i.e. The tile mine gave me 'diamond' resource. To build the gem cutter I had to have a 'gem' resource which required a 'diamond mine' building).

If you would at least rename these buildings so that they aren't exact duplicates (Note: I've made this suggestion before and had background info links), it would be easier to swallow. For example: Instead of the building being called 'Iron Mine', call it 'Iron Smelter' (and I agree with the ore -> ignot etc... idea as well). Actually I'd prefer just a single building called 'Smelter' that would convert all tile resource metals.

This idea doesn't work so well with the gem resources since the pre-processing of gems isn't really defined, and was done by early gem cutters, as it is with ore.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The Skyscraper is because Scotland Yard is a fairly tall office building; I'm happy to have Modern Offices OR Skyscraper.

Which means that the Spy I get in the Classic era is useless. Except for the GG buildings none of the other specialist buildings are so restricted.

I really think you need to examine the cost of buildings. Why is the ancient (or earlier) trading post costing more than a castle to build? Why are normal city walls so cheap?

 

[bill2505]

Which means that the Spy I get in the Classic era is useless. Except for the GG buildings none of the other specialist buildings are so restricted.

I really think you need to examine the cost of buildings. Why is the ancient (or earlier) trading post costing more than a castle to build? Why are normal city walls so cheap?

i agree

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Praetyre

1. Tweaked Trading Post, Alchemists Lab, Antique Shop, Billboards, Book Store, Brass Instrument Maker, Brothel, Coffee Shop, Comicbook Store, Dive Bar, Pub, Tavern, Electricians Workshop, Forensics Lab, Learning Center, Plumber's Workshop, Mosaic Workshop, Stained Glass Workshop, Police Station, Post Office, Road Signs, Robotics Lab, Roller Derby Track, Seal Maker, Sausage Shop, Traffic Signals, Electric Street Lights and Scotland Yard.

2. Gambler's Den is not mine. It may be Vokarya's I think.

3. You can start posting the rest now.

 

[Praetyre]

Alright, might as well move on to...
Defenses;

Spoiler :

Anti-Matter Battery: Requires Firearms
Anti-Missile Battery: Requires Ammunition AND Firearms
Artillery Battery: Requires Ammunition AND Firearms
Auto-Cannon Battery: Requires Ammunition AND Firearms
Automated Defenses: Requires Firearms
Laser Battery: Requires Firearms
Missile Battery: Requires Ammunition AND Firearms

Housing;

Spoiler :

Prehistoric
Grass Huts: Requires Stick Gatherer AND Very Tall Grass
Classical
Insulas: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Lumber
Domuses: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Lumber
Villas: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Marble
Palaces: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Marble
Medieval
Commons: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Lumber
Cottages: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Lumber
Manors: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Marble
Estates: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Marble
Modern
Boondocks: Requires Furniture AND Concrete OR Lumber OR Steel
Ghettos: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Concrete
Suburbs: Requires Furniture AND Glassware AND Bricks OR Concrete OR Lumber
Apartments: Requires Furniture AND Glassware AND Bricks OR Concrete OR Lumber
Mansions: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel
Condominiums: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel
Transhuman
Dugouts: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel
Refugee Camps: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel
Smart Homes: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel
High-Tech Apartments: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel
Chateau: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel
High-Tech Condominiums: Requires Concrete AND Furniture AND Glassware AND Steel
Colony Arcology: Requires Arcology
Launch Arcology: Requires Arcology

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Praetyre

Defenses
The reason these were rejected before is because of the Firearms stuff. These are like large cannons be it traditional cannons, missiles or futuristic cannons. Thus firearms don't quite fit.

Housing
I am going to be doing the housing again but this time where they are automatically built. I am unsure if I want to link them to a new property or if I want to wait for a new tag to be made so they are auto-built when their other requirements are met. Thus I must skip this until I am ready to work on that.

Keep posting these. Sorry I could not be much help with these 2 sets at this time.

 

[Nimek]

I understand that ammunition is a light ammo to rifles

Then we should have more expanded military resources system

missiles - req rocketry (heavy ammo eqipment) (req by heavy gunships, defence building)
torpedoes - hevy navy eqipment (for submarines and modern water units)

 

[Faustmouse]

1. You have a Resource on the map.
2. You Build the Improvement on the Resource.
3. This unlocks the City Vicinity Building for that Resource.
4. This unlocks a processing building which requires the city vicinity building and the resource.
5. This processing building now produces a new resource that can only be built by the processing building.

I think Nimek's problem isn't this system but just the name of the building of your step 3. Maybe rename the building "Iron Mine" to "Iron Ore Storage" or "Iron Mine Supply" or something that supports the mine (the tile improvment).

 

[Nimek]

I think Nimek's problem isn't this system but just the name of the building of your step 3. Maybe rename the building "Iron Mine" to "Iron Ore Storage" or "Iron Mine Supply" or something that supports the mine (the tile improvment).

If the mine building must stay because Hydro is protective fortyfied and hard to convince

A) So rename metal mine building to metal ore storage. So what should be done is:

1 rename metal resource to metal ore
2 rename metal mine building to metal ore storage
3 add metal workshop building (provides metal resource)

B) My little request

Can we rename aircrafts and tanks resource to aircrafts parts, tanks parts.

Now it sound like you have tank already (from resource) and the redesign it in the city to exaple modern tank.

 

[Praetyre]

I took it that "Firearms" represented every kind of post-Renaissance weapon, from muskets to RPGs. Makes things simpler from a design perspective, since having no distinction between arquebuses and blasters really isn't that much different from having no resource distinction between rifles and RPGs.

Dancing Hoskuld:

Spoiler :

Akshardham: Requires Bricks
Alhambra: Requires Bricks AND Furniture
Andean Monastery: Requires Bricks AND Furniture
Apadana Palace: Requires Bricks AND Furniture
Apothecary Shop: Requires Trading Post
Ark of the Covenant: Requires Gold AND Prime Timber
Asatru Monastery: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Lumber
Asatru Temple: Requires Bricks OR Lumber
Baha'i Monastery: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Baha'i Temple: Requires Bricks AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Behistun Inscription: Requires Stone
Bezeklik Caves: Requires Caves
Blue Mosque: Requires Bricks AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Buddhist Monastery: Requires Furniture AND Bricks OR Lumber
Buddhist Temple: Requires Sculptures AND Bricks OR Lumber
Calmacec: Requires Bricks
Choquequirao: Requires Bricks
Christian Monastery: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Christian Temple: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Confucian Monastery: Requires Furniture AND Lumber AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Confucian School: Requires Furniture AND Lumber AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Confucian Temple: Requires Lumber AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Coricanha: Requires Bricks
Fish Pens: Requires Nets
Freya Sanctuary: Requires Bricks OR Lumber
Ger: Requires Leather AND Lumber
Great Mosque of Desert: Requires Islamic Mosque. Merge with The Great Mosque of Djenne
Hammurabi Stele of Laws: Requires Stone
Heimdall Sanctuary: Requires Bricks OR Lumber
Hellenic Gymnasia: Requires Sculptures AND Bricks OR Marble
Hellenic Pantheon: Requires Sculptures AND Bricks OR Marble
Hellenic Temple: Requires Sculptures AND Bricks OR Marble
Hellsmouth Sanctuary: Requires Peak
Hindu Monastery: Requires Bricks AND Furniture
Hindu Temple: Requires Bricks
Holy See Library: Requires The Apostolic Palace AND Library
Islamic Monastery: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Islamic Temple: Requires Bricks AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Itsukushima Shrine: Requires Lumber
Jain Monastery: Requires Bricks AND Furniture
Jain Temple: Requires Bricks
Jewish Monastery: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Jewish Temple: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Kotoku-in: Requires Sculptures
LDS Meetinghouse: Requires Books AND Furniture AND Bricks OR Concrete OR Lumber
LDS Temple: Requires Books AND Furniture AND Bricks OR Concrete OR Lumber
Loki Sanctuary: Requires Bricks OR Lumber
Lotus Temple: Requires Bricks OR Marble
Machu Picchu: Requires Bricks, Requires Peak
Masada: Requires Bricks
Matsumoto Castle: Requires Castle
Meenakshi Temple: Requires Bricks
Nara's Giant Buddha: Requires Sculptures
Nimrud Palace: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Lumber
Odeon: Requires Bricks AND Greek
Palace of Potala: Requires Bricks AND Furniture AND Lumber
Phidias Statue Workshop: Requires Sculptor's Workshop
Pir-e Naraki: Requires Bricks
Pyramid of the Magician: Requires Bricks
Pyramid of the Moon: Requires Bricks
Pyramid of the Sun: Requires Bricks
Quenzhen School: Requires Furniture AND Lumber AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Revivalist Church: Requires Bricks AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Saint Mark's Basilica: Requires Christian Cathedral
Scientology Monastery: Requires Offices
Scientology Temple: Requires Offices
Seti Pir: Requires Bricks
Shaman's Yurta: Requires Leather AND Wood
Shinto Monastery: Requires Furniture AND Lumber
Shinto Temple: Requires Lumber
Sikh Gurdwara: Requires Bricks AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Solomon's Temple: Should be merged with The Temple of Solomon
Sultan Qaboos Grand Mosque: Requires Islamic Mosque
Taoist Monastery: Requires Furniture AND Lumber AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Taoist Temple: Requires Lumber AND Books OR Paper OR Scrolls OR Tablets
Various Kemetist Temples: Requires Bricks AND Sculptures
Various Naghualist Temples: Requires Bricks
Temple of Ptah: Requires Bricks AND Sculptures
Temple of Toth: Requires Bricks AND Sculptures
The Brihadeeswarar Temple: Requires Hindu Mandir
The Erechtheum: Requires Hellenic Pantheon
The Ishtar Gate: Requires Bricks AND Lumber
The Necromanteion: Requires Hellenic Pantheon
The Parthenon: Requires Hellenic Pantheon
The Temple of Heaven: Requires Lumber
Thor Altar: Requires Bricks OR Lumber
Thor Sanctuary: Requires Bricks OR Lumber
Tlaloc's Altar: Requires Bricks
Tower of Silence: Requires Bricks
Voodoo House: Requires Lumber
Voodoo Hut: Requires Lumber
Wudang Mountain: Requires Taoist Monastery, Requires Peak
Ziggurat: Requires Bricks AND Assyrian OR Babylonian OR Sumerian
Zoroastrian Fire Temple: Requires Bricks