A Possible Modding Group

[_random_]

I have no modding experience, but I have some cool mod ideas and I'd like to learn. I'd be happy to take on some menial labor to learn the ropes.

 

[johny smith]

If it all works out, it would be great to combine the two, if you are game for that.
That is a good idea; you might also be interested in this

Yes your link has a lot of similarity to my idea. The general idea that we are thinking is to stick to a historical theme is all. We have a lot of others ideas that I do not know should be discussed yet or not because we don't know what to focus on first till the game is released. It is quite a lot actually. So really whatever idea would appear in relation to what I had in mind in a mod would need some balancing.

If you are referring to Ahriman's idea. It sounds like a small focused mod. There is nothing wrong with small focused mods. But I doubt the idea he posted was intended to be placed in a mod that would go through entire world timeline. Rome would just be a piece of the history of the world. They would just disappear in my idea at one point but change into a newer European civilization in the process.

As for repositories I am using one I set up on Sourceforge already for my past modding. If someone is really serious about modding it is always more work to translate good ideas to code. Well if someone wants access to a repository is it not hard to do. I can be contacted by PM or email if there is interest.

 

[Pouakai]

I'll be interested in joining this project as a Civilopedia writer. I come from another online communtiy where mod projects are all too common, and many fail within a week because the founders have no designing skills and no motivation. I can see this one will be sucessful, as the leader is clear on his idea and (I'm guessing) can design.

I'm also willing to learn coding should that be required

 

[stmartin]

First of all, good (big) mods don't get done in a month, no matter how many people are working on it.

Second, it's highly likely that the majority of those 12 mod ideas are not interesting enough to the majority of the modders. When modders are not motivated enough, they won't do great work.

So stop this.

 

[Dale]

1 modder, 12 months != 12 modders, 1 month.

I tell you this from much personal experience.

 

[frenzyfol]

I think you're looking for a repository of modding knowledge. A suppository of modding knowledge might be... painful.

On topic, hopefully Civ 5 will have a good level of documentation for modders, it'd certainly help mods get off the ground.

Whats particularly hilarious is that I swear that when I wrote that I was saying to myself repository repository, not suppository.

 

[Ahriman]

Can't agree. I've seen a lot of people who come up with a kinda neat mod idea, but have no idea as to how to transfer that to actual gameplay (i.e. make it fun). And a lot who come up with ideas that aren't even neat. Design is very important. No code-monkey can make a bad design good (if he can, he's no mere code-monkey

Oh, I totally agree that many people are terrible designers. A good design is *simple*, most projects suffer from terrible feature creep. I think the most important job for a designer is to know when to say NO; 90%+ of ideas should probably never be implemented.

All I meant was - I find it massively easier to come up with a good design that can be implemented practically than to actually do the codework myself (see my work on Dune Wars, where I created the civics, tech tree, religions designs and much of the unit design, and some other design, but basically none of the coding, and none of the art).

For example, we have a full and complex design in existence for Warhammer Fantasy, but haven't had sufficient time from coders to get the mod finished, and the team lead has changed several times.

But its hard to have separation between design and project lead/coding. I can easily create an entire project design on my own (and incorporating good workable suggestions), but its not fair to expect other people to implement fully ideas that aren't theirs.
And a project can't work without a team lead with more technical competence that I possess, and yet the team lead needs to be the person who is most dedicated to the vision for the mod.
It just doesn't work when the designer is more dedicated to the mod than the people actually implementing it.

 

[Bowsling]

1 modder, 12 months != 12 modders, 1 month.

I tell you this from much personal experience.

Exactly, that's what I meant.

 

[Polobo]

Part of the point is that the people who'd rather code can code, rather then come up with all the ideas on their own.
Paying people I find kind of silly. Modding is a labor of love, not a job. If an artist wants to post the models they made working on a leaderhead (although now more like leaderbody with the new CivV graphics), then they can go ahead and do that. I am not paying anybody to mod, nor expecting them to pay money to mod.

That is my point (though the money comment probably obsecured it somewhat). If you are going to pay someone then they may very well work on a project they do not find that engrossing just to put food on the table. If you are not going to pay someone (and I take for granted that mod work goes unpaid) then you need to present them something that they really want to be a part of and that will likely be well received by the community since they will need both the internal enjoyment from working on the project as well as the external feedback from the community to make it worth their time.

I am less concerned with ideas than I am with project feasibility and management. Just as a good coder should be able to take someone elses design and implement "well" a good project manager should be able to take someone elses (or community) ideas and implement them. Now, contructing a team that is going to tackle projects one-at-a-time is not a bad idea but a community project like modding means that many of the persons contributing cannot dedicate all their time to the project. Thus my suggestion to focus on a structure where a vision and needs are made known and then understand that the amount of external support you get will be related to how compelling the vision and how organized your "project management" system is.

 

[SevenSpirits]

Oh, I totally agree that many people are terrible designers. A good design is *simple*, most projects suffer from terrible feature creep. I think the most important job for a designer is to know when to say NO; 90%+ of ideas should probably never be implemented.

All I meant was - I find it massively easier to come up with a good design that can be implemented practically than to actually do the codework myself (see my work on Dune Wars, where I created the civics, tech tree, religions designs and much of the unit design, and some other design, but basically none of the coding, and none of the art).

For example, we have a full and complex design in existence for Warhammer Fantasy, but haven't had sufficient time from coders to get the mod finished, and the team lead has changed several times.

But its hard to have separation between design and project lead/coding. I can easily create an entire project design on my own (and incorporating good workable suggestions), but its not fair to expect other people to implement fully ideas that aren't theirs.
And a project can't work without a team lead with more technical competence that I possess, and yet the team lead needs to be the person who is most dedicated to the vision for the mod.
It just doesn't work when the designer is more dedicated to the mod than the people actually implementing it.

I completely agree with all of this. (Also, Dune Wars is a very well-designed mod. Good job!)

 

[johny smith]

I don't understand why this has turn more into a philosophical discussion though. I am lost to what you want to do with this thread. If the OP is looking for a group please state what your thoughts are on any particular mod.

A lot of mods from Civ4 will have to be rethought because of the change of mechanics in Civ5. There is no health now. Happiness is empire wide. No religion. No stacking units. It will not be that simple to use the same mod ideas I mean. You will only know for sure when you get your hands on the game with what can be done. All we can do now is layout general ideas which half at least will probably be impossible to do after we see the SDK.

 

[Ahriman]

A handful of mod ideas I'd be interested in doing design work for:
a) Rise of Rome, Decline of Rome.
b) Warhammer 40k; invasion of a planet.
c) Viking-era Britain.
d) The Crusades.
e) New world imperialism/colonization.

 

[Caeserportugal]

I would like to join although I have no major experience on modding I have a great knowledge on history and I am eager for learning how to mod. I also have some ideas for some historical maps.

 

[Dale]

e) New world imperialism/colonization.

*Said in Napoleon Dynamite voice* You got skillz?

 

[PieceOfMind]

I think the most important job for a designer is to know when to say NO; 90%+ of ideas should probably never be implemented.

QFT. I especially noticed the temptations in PIG Mod (though possibly replacing your "implemented" instead with "included", because for all intents and purposes it's a compilation mod). One thing to remember though is there are always going to be people who think you go too far and people who think you don't go far enough. One can't satisfy all requests. Instead, try to meet the design goals or objectives - they are always there to fall back on. If a change or idea doesn't take you closer to your goal, drop it.

 

[johny smith]

Does anyone have any suggestions I wonder for expanding the game mechanics of all mods? 12 mods I think is an irrelevant equation to modding something that most mods can use.

I just do not understand what the OP is wanting yet. Are you wanting to do 12 totally different mods that do not relate to one another?

 

[mike_cf]

I'd love to help, I have no experience with LUA but I have plenty with C#/ php (and lua seems pretty simple), web design and a bit of game design as well.

 

[The_J]

First of all, good (big) mods don't get done in a month, no matter how many people are working on it.

Second, it's highly likely that the majority of those 12 mod ideas are not interesting enough to the majority of the modders. When modders are not motivated enough, they won't do great work.

So stop this.

Ah, another modder, who has come back from the dead.

And i have to agree here.

Good design is easy.

Depends on what you think is "good".
Ask Jonny here, then ask Zappara about good design, and then think yourself about it.
That will be 3 completely different opinions about gooddesign.

Getting code-monkeys willing to implement someone else's genius... now that's hard.

To work on something, which you don't love and maybe is a lot of work, is hard.
That's the problem.
That's also why many of the requests don't get done.

 

[CanuckSoldier]

Yes modders have to be motivated to work in their spare time. So working on your idea is not too hard as you motivate yourself. But finding a modder/coder that is good at game design AND good at being a modtivational team leader that can motivate other modders to work on his/her mod, is not so easy to find. There are only so many people like Dale and Rhye around.

CS

 

[johny smith]

If anyone is interested....

Our group of 5 so far has agreed to a general modding idea. The mod will be named Fabula Terra. There are 2 things that we have agreed to work towards. One is a civilization evolving model as in the Sporified example I gave. Two is to revamp the trade and resource system in a manner to give more realism.

We are thinking at this point to bring back a system of limiting population(like health) based on water. And perhaps a very simple system of climate change.

If you are interested in bringing in more realism to the game mechanics our mod may be for you. Of course realism as in keeping the model simple and not forcing the player to micromanage. Anyway if interested in helping we are looking for people that would share the modding goals.