A Problem With Plastic

Pontiuth Pilate

Republican Jesus!
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Taking stock in the Lord
Our planet: a toilet that doesn't flush.

Fate can take strange forms, and so perhaps it does not seem unusual that Captain Charles Moore found his life’s purpose in a nightmare. Unfortunately, he was awake at the time, and 800 miles north of Hawaii in the Pacific Ocean.
It happened on August 3, 1997, a lovely day, at least in the beginning: Sunny. Little wind. Water the color of sapphires. Moore and the crew of Alguita, his 50-foot aluminum-hulled catamaran, sliced through the sea.
Returning to Southern California from Hawaii after a sailing race, Moore had altered Alguita’s course, veering slightly north. He had the time and the curiosity to try a new route, one that would lead the vessel through the eastern corner of a 10-million-square-mile oval known as the North Pacific subtropical gyre. This was an odd stretch of ocean, a place most boats purposely avoided. For one thing, it was becalmed. “The doldrums,” sailors called it, and they steered clear. So did the ocean’s top predators: the tuna, sharks, and other large fish that required livelier waters, flush with prey. The gyre was more like a desert—a slow, deep, clockwise-swirling vortex of air and water caused by a mountain of high-pressure air that lingered above it.
The area’s reputation didn’t deter Moore. He had grown up in Long Beach, 40 miles south of L.A., with the Pacific literally in his front yard, and he possessed an impressive aquatic résumé: deckhand, able seaman, sailor, scuba diver, surfer, and finally captain. Moore had spent countless hours in the ocean, fascinated by its vast trove of secrets and terrors. He’d seen a lot of things out there, things that were glorious and grand; things that were ferocious and humbling. But he had never seen anything nearly as chilling as what lay ahead of him in the gyre.
It began with a line of plastic bags ghosting the surface, followed by an ugly tangle of junk: nets and ropes and bottles, motor-oil jugs and cracked bath toys, a mangled tarp. Tires. A traffic cone. Moore could not believe his eyes. Out here in this desolate place, the water was a stew of plastic crap. It was as though someone had taken the pristine seascape of his youth and swapped it for a landfill.
How did all the plastic end up here? How did this trash tsunami begin? What did it mean? If the questions seemed overwhelming, Moore would soon learn that the answers were even more so, and that his discovery had dire implications for human—and planetary—health. As Alguita glided through the area that scientists now refer to as the “Eastern Garbage Patch,” Moore realized that the trail of plastic went on for hundreds of miles. Depressed and stunned, he sailed for a week through bobbing, toxic debris trapped in a purgatory of circling currents. To his horror, he had stumbled across the 21st-century Leviathan. It had no head, no tail. Just an endless body.
...
Since his first encounter with the Garbage Patch nine years ago, Moore has been on a mission to learn exactly what’s going on out there. Leaving behind a 25-year career running a furniture-restoration business, he has created the Algalita Marine Research Foundation to spread the word of his findings. He has resumed his science studies, which he’d set aside when his attention swerved from pursuing a university degree to protesting the Vietnam War. His tireless effort has placed him on the front lines of this new, more abstract battle. After enlisting scientists such as Steven B. Weisberg, Ph.D. (executive director of the Southern California Coastal Water Research Project and an expert in marine environmental monitoring), to develop methods for analyzing the gyre’s contents, Moore has sailed Alguita back to the Garbage Patch several times. On each trip, the volume of plastic has grown alarmingly. The area in which it accumulates is now twice the size of Texas.

At the same time, all over the globe, there are signs that plastic pollution is doing more than blighting the scenery; it is also making its way into the food chain. Some of the most obvious victims are the dead seabirds that have been washing ashore in startling numbers, their bodies packed with plastic: things like bottle caps, cigarette lighters, tampon applicators, and colored scraps that, to a foraging bird, resemble baitfish. (One animal dissected by Dutch researchers contained 1,603 pieces of plastic.) And the birds aren’t alone. All sea creatures are threatened by floating plastic, from whales down to zooplankton. There’s a basic moral horror in seeing the pictures: a sea turtle with a plastic band strangling its shell into an hourglass shape; a humpback towing plastic nets that cut into its flesh and make it impossible for the animal to hunt. More than a million seabirds, 100,000 marine mammals, and countless fish die in the North Pacific each year, either from mistakenly eating this junk or from being ensnared in it and drowning.

Bad enough. But Moore soon learned that the big, tentacled balls of trash were only the most visible signs of the problem; others were far less obvious, and far more evil. Dragging a fine-meshed net known as a manta trawl, he discovered minuscule pieces of plastic, some barely visible to the eye, swirling like fish food throughout the water. He and his researchers parsed, measured, and sorted their samples and arrived at the following conclusion: By weight, this swath of sea contains six times as much plastic as it does plankton.
This statistic is grim—for marine animals, of course, but even more so for humans. The more invisible and ubiquitous the pollution, the more likely it will end up inside us. And there’s growing—and disturbing—proof that we’re ingesting plastic toxins constantly, and that even slight doses of these substances can severely disrupt gene activity...
“Except for the small amount that’s been incinerated—and it’s a very small amount—every bit of plastic ever made still exists,” Moore says...




The word itself—nurdles—sounds cuddly and harmless, like a cartoon character or a pasta for kids, but what it refers to is most certainly not. [ed - Nurdles are raw pellets of plastic that form the starting materials for finished plastic products.] Absorbing up to a million times the level of organic pollutants in their surrounding waters, nurdles become supersaturated poison pills. They’re light enough to blow around like dust, to spill out of shipping containers, and to wash into harbors, storm drains, and creeks. In the ocean, nurdles are easily mistaken for fish eggs by creatures that would very much like to have such a snack. And once inside the body of a bigeye tuna or a king salmon, these tenacious chemicals are headed directly to your dinner table.
One study estimated that nurdles now account for 10 percent of plastic ocean debris. And once they’re scattered in the environment, they’re diabolically hard to clean up (think wayward confetti). At places as remote as Rarotonga, in the Cook Islands, 2,100 miles northeast of New Zealand and a 12-hour flight from L.A., they’re commonly found mixed with beach sand. In 2004, Moore received a $500,000 grant from the state of California to investigate the myriad ways in which nurdles go astray during the plastic manufacturing process. On a visit to a polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe factory, as he walked through an area where railcars unloaded ground-up nurdles, he noticed that his pant cuffs were filled with a fine plastic dust. Turning a corner, he saw windblown drifts of nurdles piled against a fence. Talking about the experience, Moore’s voice becomes strained and his words pour out in an urgent tumble: “It’s not the big trash on the beach. It’s the fact that the whole biosphere is becoming mixed with these plastic particles. What are they doing to us? We’re breathing them, the fish are eating them, they’re in our hair, they’re in our skin.”
Though marine dumping is part of the problem, escaped nurdles and other plastic litter migrate to the gyre largely from land. That polystyrene cup you saw floating in the creek, if it doesn’t get picked up and specifically taken to a landfill, will eventually be washed out to sea. Once there, it will have plenty of places to go: The North Pacific gyre is only one of five such high-pressure zones in the oceans. There are similar areas in the South Pacific, the North and South Atlantic, and the Indian Ocean. Each of these gyres has its own version of the Garbage Patch, as plastic gathers in the currents. Together, these areas cover 40 percent of the sea. “That corresponds to a quarter of the earth’s surface,” Moore says. “So 25 percent of our planet is a toilet that never flushes.”
Too-long-didn't-read summary... we make ketchup bottles that last 400 years, they get dumped in landfills or wash out to sea, and all the garbage collects in the doldrums to form a literal sea of trash.
Wow.
Couldn't we make a different kind of plastic? Like, think of waste management. If you crap in the woods, eventually the microorganisms will take care of it. However if you live in a city with 100,000 other people and you all crap into the river that flows through your town... you have a problem. So there are sewage treatment plants, which - surprisingly - don't actually do anything very special to the waste. They just filter it, and then let it sit in a medium with an unusually high amount of aeration and surface area. The bacteria do the rest, finishing the job very quickly thanks to the favorable conditions, and the water is clean on the other side.
Now what about plastic waste - couldn't we design a kind of plastic where the polymer is strong under normal conditions, but is designed to degrade quickly when exposed to a specific wavelength of radiation? When you're done with your plastic product you dump it in the recycling, the trash collectors bring it to a "plastic treatment plant" where all the junk is laid out and exposed to special light for a few days or weeks. Then you have raw material that can be added to catalyst to repolymerize and make new plastic products.
Or, another idea, invent a process to turn some kind of biological plastic-like polymer (cellulose? starch?) into a strong, resistant plastic, along with a way to biodegrade it. Then you wouldn't even have to sort your trash - toss your food and bioplastic into a landfill, and in a few years it's a forest that you can harvest more plastics from.

I am posting this again because this is an important topic and I want to participate in a REAL DISCUSSION about it.

I don't want to see people sidetracking this thread in bad faith. Mods, please just delete the other thread.

So let's hear it. To start off, some questions -

- do you think the oceanic garbage patches are acceptable consequences of our industrial civilization?

- if not, what can/should we do about it?
 
Again, knowing what I know about the article, I am suspect of its accuracy.

Is trash a problem? Sure. What to do about it? I am not sure this is anything we can do about it outside of our current efforts to recycle plastic currently. I dont think we currently have the technology to execute a clean up operation mid-ocean that would effectively remove the plastic without even doing more harm than good.
 
Of course, because someone with no expertise on the subject can offhand find a single insignificant detail in the article that might have some grey area about it, the entire thing was written by a whacko left wing nut with a political axe to grind.
 
Again, knowing what I know about the article, I am suspect of its accuracy.

You can look at the Gyre yourself right here.

They found six times more plastic by mass than plankton. SIX times... Mostly plastic that had been photodegraded into small transparent chunks that look like fish eggs. Animals eat it, and boom, everything that was soaked into that plastic becomes part of the food chain.

And of course large chunks that strangle animals, and ghost nets (abandoned fishing nets) that become death traps...

My first concern is not plastic materials, but other deadly chemicals.

Persistant organic pollutants (POPs) adsorb onto plastic incredibly easily.

Dumping plastic into the ocean essentially multiplies the biomagnification effect (aka the food-chain effect where organisms higher up the food chain have dosages hundreds or thousands of times higher of these poisons than exist in the water itself).

These chemicals may have been banned decades ago but they're still in our water and they ain't goin' anywhere.

Of course, because someone with no expertise on the subject can offhand find a single insignificant detail in the article that might have some grey area about it, the entire thing was written by a whacko left wing nut with a political axe to grind.

Please do not take the thread back on that track, ok? That's addressed to MB too.

If you guys can't discuss the topic, then take it to PMs not this thread.
 
Of course, because someone with no expertise on the subject can offhand find a single insignificant detail in the article that might have some grey area about it, the entire thing was written by a whacko left wing nut with a political axe to grind.

I dont think its unreasonable for a supposed 'expert' in a particular field to present accurate information. If the article were truly given the serious scrutiny it should of had in its production, a laymen like me shouldnt have to point out an obvious error to everyone.
 
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand pasi and mobboss are gonna get this locked again, cause they each have to get the last word.
 
the best part is how nobody has a consistent political bias across every issue. smoking, guns, free market, environmentalism, etc etc
 
You can look at the Gyre yourself right here.

Thanks for the link. To be honest, after reading the story, I was ready for what would appear to be a trash filled lagoon, but thats not really what was in the link.

It actually seemed more like one of the professional fishing shows that highlighted a moment when they 'reeled' in a nice piece of plastic. To be honest, after reading his article, I expected the ocean to look a lot worse than it did in the video.

Not sure what to say. It appeared to me that a large amount of the plastic there was generated from the fishing industry (fishing buoys and synthetic nets/line). Its going to be expected that such industries are going to generate that type of waste, even under ideal circumstances.

Bottom line, I am unsure as to what can be done, if anything.
 
I was ready for what would appear to be a trash filled lagoon... I expected the ocean to look a lot worse than it did in the video.

I knew you would go this route. "I can't really see that much plastic!"

:sighreadthethread

Mostly plastic that had been photodegraded into small transparent chunks that look like fish eggs.

Nurdles are raw pellets of plastic that form the starting materials for finished plastic products.] Absorbing up to a million times the level of organic pollutants in their surrounding waters, nurdles become supersaturated poison pills. They’re light enough to blow around like dust, to spill out of shipping containers, and to wash into harbors, storm drains, and creeks. In the ocean, nurdles are easily mistaken for fish eggs by creatures that would very much like to have such a snack. And once inside the body of a bigeye tuna or a king salmon, these tenacious chemicals are headed directly to your dinner table.

One study estimated that nurdles now account for 10 percent of plastic ocean debris.

Basically, the oceans are filled with plastic dust. Again, six times as much dust as plankton, in the middle of the gyre...

Bottom line, I am unsure as to what can be done, if anything.

Exactly, see the other thread for more about that philosophy.
 
I remember a story about a turtle that died and vets cut open it's stomach and found that it was lined with plastic. They said that the creature must have dies a horrible slow death as a result of all that plastic in it's stomach. It is disgusting that people are so careless to do things like that.
 
Funny thing is, they don't tell you how harmful nurdles are. I mean, if they're tiny bits of plastic and the tuna you eat didn't die from it, how would a small, tiny bit of plastic be harmful to the body. If the body does not need something, it'll be crapped out in the other end.

(No really, are nurdles that harmful?)

OH NOES! I GOTS TO WATCH OUT 4 NURDLES LOL!
I think I'll cower under my bed and suck on my thumb with my teddy bear... these nurdles are a threat to us all and we must hide! :hide:

Spoiler :
Note for the slow: :sarcasm: for the above paragraph
 
Exactly, see the other thread for more about that philosophy.
This is a valid question even if you are for intervention. Like Space Polution, having tiny peices of plastic in the ocean doesn't seem to be something easy to clean up, and It doesn't seem to go away on its own. What exactly is being proposed, some sort of filtration system on the ocean?
 
No, oceanic garbage dumps are not acceptable. Unfortunately, I haven't enough knowledge to give a workable suggestion of how to fix the problem.

I do know that I recycle as much as I can. But there is so much that could be recycled that isn't, because it isn't deemed "profitable." It seems that the only reason recycling is being done to the extent it is now is because somebody figured out how to make money at it. It's so frustrating that I can take my pop bottles to the depot and get 20 cents apiece for the 2-litre ones, but they expect me to throw the caps in the garbage because nobody has figured out how to make recycling them profitable. And our municipal Blue Box program won't accept anything but #2 plastic. A lot of plastic stuff is #3 or #5 or #7, and therefore unacceptable.

I know of a woman who used to crochet old used plastic shopping bags into rugs. I had one of those, and it was terrific -- easy to clean, looked spiffy, and lasted a long time. In fact, I intend to learn how to do that myself so I can make use of the plastic bags I don't throw out (but they're accumulating in the house, and I just can't make myself send them to the landfill).

People need to get more creative in using what is already here. Just this past week there was a feature on CBC Newsworld about a couple of women who went into business making shopping bags out of old, unusable sails. People can take these reusable shopping bags with them to the grocery stores and therefore not have to carry their groceries in plastic bags.

Regarding the political views surrounding recycling... it doesn't matter one whit which party's philosophies you believe in or if you're rich or poor -- you still can't eat cement, digest plastic, or drink acid and liquid hydrocarbons. Neither can your children/grandchildren, so it's essential that we quit protesting the monetary cost or trying to "score points" against the "other" party. This is a matter of survival, not only of selected marine/aquatic species, but of the entire biosphere.
 
OH NOES! I GOTS TO WATCH OUT 4 NURDLES LOL!
I think I'll cower under my bed and suck on my thumb with my teddy bear... these nurdles are a threat to us all and we must hide! :hide:

Spoiler :
Note for the slow: :sarcasm: for the above paragraph

can we replace nurdles with terrorism?
 
Valka D'Ur said:
you still can't eat cement, digest plastic, or drink acid and liquid hydrocarbons. Neither can your children/grandchildren

What we can't digest gets crapped out in the other end.

mrt144 said:
can we replace nurdles with terrorism?

:goodjob:

The nurdles are an enemy to our democracy! I say we invade a Middle-Eastern country to get their oil so they cannot create plastic and therefore create nurdles!
 
This is an important issue. People tend to moan about CO2, deforestation, et cetera, but we tend to overlook the environmental problems associated with plastic. The reason I think is that it had become so much a part of our everyday life.

Dumping our rubbish into the ocean is popular since it's out of sight = out of mind. But that doesn't mean it won't affect us. And by the way plastics are made from petroleum, which is going to run out in 40 years or so. So what we should do is research new alternatives while phasing out plastic, and process/recycle plastic as much as possible so that any rubbish won't harm the environment.

Come to think of it, a 6-year-old could've thought that up.
 
I knew you would go this route. "I can't really see that much plastic!"

Well...I couldnt! Thats just being honest.

Basically, the oceans are filled with plastic dust. Again, six times as much dust as plankton, in the middle of the gyre...

Exactly, see the other thread for more about that philosophy.

Its not a 'philosophy' its a statement regards the magnitude of the task at hand.

First of all, from the ocean current studies Moore has done it would appear that the vast majority of plastic in the North Pacific Gyre is from Asia. How do you suggest we handle that little tidbit?

As for a cleanup operation, the cost of having some type of ship or fleet of ships to physically clean up the gyre would be enormous, and its end result effectiveness questionable.

Do you have a suggestion yourself?
 
Funny thing is, they don't tell you how harmful nurdles are. I mean, if they're tiny bits of plastic and the tuna you eat didn't die from it, how would a small, tiny bit of plastic be harmful to the body. If the body does not need something, it'll be crapped out in the other end.

(No really, are nurdles that harmful?)

OH NOES! I GOTS TO WATCH OUT 4 NURDLES LOL!
I think I'll cower under my bed and suck on my thumb with my teddy bear... these nurdles are a threat to us all and we must hide! :hide:

Spoiler :
Note for the slow: :sarcasm: for the above paragraph

Yeah, the fish MIGHT crap the plastic, but it ingests whatever was adsorbed onto it. Then, you ingest the fish.

Again, not really a very long chain of consequences here....

People need to get more creative in using what is already here.

I agree. And change what we consume and dump. Because there's never any difference in HOW we get rid of anything. In the long run, it's always right here, with us, on earth - in our air, or our groundwater or our oceans. And eventually... we end up eating it.

Don't crap where you eat... that's a maxim for a reason...
 
As for a cleanup operation, the cost of having some type of ship or fleet of ships to physically clean up the gyre would be enormous, and its end result effectiveness questionable.

Do you have a suggestion yourself?

You're right, it'd be hard to clean up the mess we made. It'd be slow and gradual.

In the meantime though, if we don't stop dumping plastic into the sea, then all that clean up effort would be for nought.

The prevention is better than the cure. Stop polluting the sea first, then we can start the clean up process.
 
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