A question of motives

[GoodEnoughForMe]

This is a very legitimate concern. I have to wonder though if it is accurate. As a low end player in a national championship program your chances of getting your brains bashed in during practice might be high enough to offset what you gain by not playing much in the games. If you are a starter, or even better the star, you will be protected in practice.

I dunno, a lot of practice is not full contact full pads, and especially in college is regulated pretty heavily. If you're gonna get recked in practice it'll be heat stroke or dehydration. I guess position matters a lot too. If I am a QB or WR I'm not worried about practice contact that much.

At first, I thought School C would provide you the most fun social experience, being the star QB or whatever, you'd get invited to parties and whatnot. But then again, I started thinking that your sport might not be very prestigious on that campus, if your team is a trainwreck every year. I mean, my school had a football team - I think - and you wouldn't know who any of the players were. And I've been on teams that lose a lot. It doesn't feel noble. It doesn't feel like an opportunity for personal growth. otoh, being a barnacle on School A doesn't appeal to me, either.

This has been my experience too throughout any grade level. If the team sucks big time, it doesn't matter how good you are, campus doesn't care.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

This has been my experience too throughout any grade level. If the team sucks big time, it doesn't matter how good you are, campus doesn't care.

Campus doesn't, but the athletic department does. And the athletic department as a clique is a huge environment. The smart kids in the pre-med program might not know who the star on the bad team is, but the girls on the volleyball team do.

 

[Lexicus]

Campus doesn't, but the athletic department does. And the athletic department as a clique is a huge environment. The smart kids in the pre-med program might not know who the star on the bad team is, but the girls on the volleyball team do.

Protip, the girls on the swim team usually have really strong core muscles.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Ok but how are really strong core muscles going to get my college self through Zul'Aman once patch 2.3.0 hit.

 

[MaryKB]

I played softball when I was in high school on my school team, and I had no idea which boys were on which team or anything about their positions or who even played at all.

All I remember was Chris played tennis, but he played outside of school.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I played softball when I was in high school on my school team, and I had no idea which boys were on which team or anything about their positions or who even played at all.

All I remember was Chris played tennis, but he played outside of school.

High school is a much different environment because at the end of the day you go home, and you have parents as guidance. In college the softball team goes home to a dorm they share with the football team, and they have the athletic department staff as guidance.

 

[Gori the Grey]

As it turns out, I'm from Podunk, so all my friends and relatives will get to see me play in that Aqua Velva bowl.

B is also my serious answer.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

If you choose school C, they are gonna suck. Your senior year, when they win four games, will be the high point where they win more games than in the three previous seasons combined. No championships, no invitations to bowl games, your team is among the teams that big name schools put on their schedule so they can demonstrate their ability to run up the score on a cream puff. You will rise rapidly through the depth chart, becoming a starter late in your sophomore season and holding that position through the rest of your college career. In your senior year you will be recognized as the bright spot in the darkness and credited as the biggest contributor in all four of those wins.

School C for me. There was a bit of this thinking behind me leaving my last job. That place was too big to really stand out and move up. I'm now in a much smaller pond and am therefore a comparatively bigger fish and I really like that. New job doesn't suck like school c though.

I put off transferring from my first community college for similar reasons. I lived smack dab in between two branches of my community college district. I chose to go to the branch in the tiny farming town that held maybe 200 students on a busy day. It was a tiny school and I stood out there and I liked that. All along I knew I'd have to transfer to the much bigger city campus to continue my studying as only it had the advanced coursed I needed.

Eventually that's what happened but I stayed on at the smaller campus for a year longer than I could have just to keep that status.

 

[Bamspeedy]

In high school cross country my junior year I alternated being the 6th-7th runner on the varsity team or the #1 on the JV team and we missed going to state by a few points (top 6 runners count for team scoring), to the next year being the number one runner on a team that always finished dead last at every meet.

More pressure being on the competitive team where how I finished might have mattered than the second year where I was team captain and it didn't matter how I finished, we were going to finish last. I'm not much of a leader (other than being a silent leader by properly preparing/stretching), so the second year wasn't very fun. Just was captain for being top runner, and only two of us were seniors.

And yeah, it's cross country, so nobody cares except the individuals going to state.

 

[Sommerswerd]

This is not a sports question, even though it might look like it at a glance.

The premise is that you are a player of American football, coming out of high school. You have three college offers to choose from. To remove these as considerations we will assume up front that all three will offer you the same quality of education, in an equally attractive location, at an equal after scholarship cost. Your personal abilities as a player will also start the same, obviously, and less obviously will wind up the same no matter where you go.

So what is the difference? It is not just a matter of expectations, it is a matter of me as the questioner being able to provide an absolute certainty about outcomes.

If you choose school A, the team will be in competition for a National Championship every year, and you will in fact graduate four years later with a national championship ring of your very own. You will rise and fall on the depth chart, playing a third string role in the year of the championship, making occasional appearances on special teams throughout your four year career.

If you choose school B, the team will be successful to a reasonable degree. They will win more than they lose, but never be mentioned as a contender for a championship. The high point of your college football career will be an invitation to the Aqua Velva Turtle Bowl in Podunk at the end of your junior year, where you will face off with another 8-4 team in a game recorded and shown after midnight on ESPN 2. You will rise and fall on the depth chart and make frequent game appearances, even getting a stretch as a starter due to a rash of injuries.

If you choose school C, they are gonna suck. Your senior year, when they win four games, will be the high point where they win more games than in the three previous seasons combined. No championships, no invitations to bowl games, your team is among the teams that big name schools put on their schedule so they can demonstrate their ability to run up the score on a cream puff. You will rise rapidly through the depth chart, becoming a starter late in your sophomore season and holding that position through the rest of your college career. In your senior year you will be recognized as the bright spot in the darkness and credited as the biggest contributor in all four of those wins.

Thanks Tim... interesting thought exercise that has some very specific, very personal relevance for me... and is actually a question that I've pondered on numerous occasions throughout my life, specifically because I have actually experienced something pretty damn close to the scenarios you mention.

More specifically I have been a starter/captain on multiple championship caliber football teams, at the youth and high school level, gone to championships, lost some state championship games, and won some championship trophies that are/were as tall as I am. I've also been a rookie/backup on a high school football team that stunk and had little hope of sniffing 4 wins. I also worked my way up from scrub to earn a starting spot on that awful team, so I got to also experience being a starter on a terrible, sub-four-win team. So I got to experience becoming a starter midway through my sophomore year and remaining a starter through the rest of high school. Finally, I've also experienced being a backup player on a NCAA division champion football team, and have a championship ring of my very own to show for it. I've also got a State championship ring for coaching... the relevance of which I'll get to.

Anyway... So having experienced some similar iteration of all the different scenarios you mention, I'd have to say I learned so much from all of them that I wouldn't give any up. But for the purposes of this game, I'll say that if I were a college kid again, my 18 year old self would choose to be a starter and never look back. I'd want to play, damn sitting on the bench, wins be damned, championships be damned... I'm not sitting on the bench, I want to be out there playing my heart out.

Now the old man me... looking back on my life... I'm really glad to have a championship ring of my very own, its a really nice ring, and I'm very appreciative to have it... although I almost never wear it. See the thing is, I'm definitely prouder of the lost State Championship game where I was a starter and played every single down of the game. It was a loss, but I feel more like I earned those bragging rights, as opposed to being along for the ride on a team that happened to be good. Same goes for the coaching ring. I feel more proud of that one than of my college ring, because I feel like I actually did more to earn it. Don't get me wrong... you learn a ton about the proper way to run a program and winning technique, attitude, team culture, etc., just being part of championship caliber programs, but its different when you are an actual starter on the team (or a coach)... you feel like you personally deserve it more. Its a fuller, more satisfy feeling. So again, if I had it to do all over again, I think I would have rather been a starter in college on a team that wasn't great, than have a fancy ring. But if you're asking the old man... I like having the ring... I mean, I've already got it and its purty.

However... all that being said... you learn alot being part of winning programs, and that experience helps you coach etc, long after your playing days are done. And in a more abstract sense, being a bit player in a well run operation is more meaningful on a macro level than being the sole bright spot in a dumpster fire operation.

 

[Hygro]

Thinking about it, I picked School A over School B with a hint of me getting to be Mr. C for School B, for myself academically. And being around folks who made my thinking skills look more normal was way better than jerking it to my own perception of superiority.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Are you thinking that being the acknowledged star of the team wouldn't be something that could be parleyed into "a good time in the present" just because the team is bad?

I've been on such a bad team at the high school level. I'd take team A in this choice list. I'd rather compete against the best players. Normally you'd expect different levels of progression depending on your interactions, but even if we hold that constant I'd still rather contribute something to success than be incapable of carrying a team past failure.

EDIT: does anyone think that level of talent will get you to the nfl?

Virtually no chance. Players make it in the NFL from successful and terrible programs alike, but those coming from the latter are not at a talent level where they'd be special-teams only if they were at a big school by the time they're drafted. It's safe to say that this hypothetical player will not see a professional career in the sport regardless of picking A, B, or C, unless there's somehow a crazy-improbable increase in ability between graduation and walking onto a team.

Short term goal? I could argue further that choices b and c would actually be pointess because statistically, the odds of getting into the nfl are quite remote and failure to recognize that or "basking in the sucess of mediocrity" are poor narcissistic exercises to boost self esteem...

If you're going to pick B or C at all, it's because you really just want to play the game, beyond what you get out of activity in practice. In this sense C could be justified, but having experienced that I'm not sure it's so great. Being the captain of a bad team feels bad, especially if you can't improve your talent level or help them improve theirs sufficiently (which opening scenario assumes). Maybe depends on position a bit.