A Socialist Fallen In Love with a Capitalist's Daughter

[HannibalBarka]

Difference in political opinion aren't really important in a man/woman relation, what 's more imoprtant is to get her agree on cooking, doing the laundry, washing the dishes and making sure there are always beer in the fridge, oh and that you're the one who controls the remote TV

If she thinks that rich need to have flat taxe, why should you care

 

[Mise]

Others have already said what I came here to say, which was to figure out how important socialism is to you and decide whether she's worth it. Well, duh what else are you supposed to do? So instead I'll give you my opinion on how important economics is to me, and what I decided after a similar bout of self-reflection.

I like economics, I read mostly economics/finance/business focussed newspapers, my job is highly dependent on my knowledge of economics, and I think about economics all the time, but I can't imagine defining myself as the sum of my views on the subject. It's just such a bizarre, trivial thing to take offense to. I mean, I can understand that you believe passionately in socialism, but I can't understand why this should matter in personal relationships. Fundamentally, I just don't believe that your political views should have a bearing on your worth as a human being.

What I personally found in the past was that, when I got into arguments with people over politics or economics, I felt like I had to be considered right. Note the wording: it wasn't enough just to be right, I also had to be considered right by other people as well. And I too would think about the argument all too much, and come up with rebuttals and refutations even the next morning on the way to uni/work and so on. The reason for me doing this was two fold.

First, I didn't feel confident enough in my own political and economic views, and so I was really trying to prove to myself that I was, in fact, correct. And partly in order to do that, I sought the other person's approval and validation. Now, I'm a much more confident person, and frankly, I know when I'm absolutely, 100% correct, and when I'm merely giving my opinion on a subjective, unknowable, and usually marginal issue.

Second, I identified too much with "being a political and economic thinker". That is, the political and economic views that I held had become part of who I was as a person. They defined me as a person and became part of my identity, and therefore, when people disagreed with my political or economic views, I felt like they were attacking me. Now, you may feel that having such strongly held political and economic views is a good thing, but I don't think it is. I think it's intellectually limiting in and of itself, but also, externally, it causes the kind of interpersonal problems that I was having at the time. Having such strong views made me a less happy person.

Anyway, I don't know whether, on self-reflection, you will find that you feel the same way when arguing with people about politics and economics. But if you do, I highly recommend detatching your identity from your political and economic views. In doing so, you may find that her political views don't detract from her worth as an individual, friend, and girlfriend.

 

[Bugfatty300]

2 * 0 = 0

1 * 2 = 2

 

[Defiant47]

Thanks for the input, all.

I actually ended up debating a little more with her, this time on military interventionism. I guess what's more important to me is that the ones close to me understand my point of view; they don't need to agree with it. For example, she's very anti-military, but despite her disagreement, she's said she understands my views on "well if the neighbour is beating his wife, then we have a duty to step in, and can't just turn a blind eye to it -- expanded on a national level."

It later became clear and she even explicitly said that she would never get upset or stay upset at any such disagreement or debate, like if I were to tell her that "our system is wrong and inequitable because under very slight change in circumstances, your father could have worked his ass off for your guys all the same, yet managed to get at most in the middle-class with a normal income".

Well, that covers that I guess. I mean, sure, in the heat of the moment, all my neurons will be trying to explain and ratify the beliefs I hold as correct. But in the long run, I only really care that she understands, not that she agrees necessarily. And that, you know, like it isn't a big deal for me in this (romantic) context, that it isn't for her either.

And so I guess it's all good!

 

[Cutlass]

Basic personalities also matter. Some people can argue and an hour later go on as if nothing happened. Others seethe about things for days, weeks, months. The first type can have more differing views on things and not have it interfere with a relationship. The second, not so much

 

[bernie14]

Basic personalities also matter. Some people can argue and an hour later go on as if nothing happened. Others seethe about things for days, weeks, months. The first type can have more differing views on things and not have it interfere with a relationship. The second, not so much

I disagree.....the variety of opinions does not necessarily correlate with length of seething...

 

[RedRalph]

Ridicule her belief system as I have done with my wife. Deep down she knows I'm right about everything.

 

[Rashiminos]

Love can cause stress

I do wonder about some people.

1 * 2 = 2

When it works best: 1 * 1 = 1

 

[Cutlass]

I disagree.....the variety of opinions does not necessarily correlate with length of seething...

You missed my point. A couple of people who let go of disagreements quickly and easily can more easily live together with different strong opinions on a number of subjects. A couple who can't let it go have a harder time doing that.

 

[berkut]

What do you do when your loved one holds a radically opposing viewpoint on an important issue (i.e. political, religious, economic...)?

Find if both of you can respect each others viewpoint, if you can't deal with it, you'll better quit.

 

[sophie]

It later became clear and she even explicitly said that she would never get upset or stay upset at any such disagreement or debate, like if I were to tell her that "our system is wrong and inequitable because under very slight change in circumstances, your father could have worked his ass off for your guys all the same, yet managed to get at most in the middle-class with a normal income".

Sounds like a keeper to me!

Also mise gave some damned good advice. I think everyone should read that another 3 or 400 times.

 

[bernie14]

You missed my point. A couple of people who let go of disagreements quickly and easily can more easily live together with different strong opinions on a number of subjects. A couple who can't let it go have a harder time doing that.

sorry, got it.....thought you were talking about individuals not couples

 

[Ayatollah So]

How important is politics to you? If sharing a similar political viewpoint is really important (and only you can answer that), then find somebody who shares that. There is nothing wrong with that being the case, btw.

I'll add the umpteenth echo to this.

This sounds like the plot to The Iron Heel. Take her to the docks one day to see the gimpy one-legged man who the company lawyers got said company out of paying the medical bills for after being hurt on the job.

Emphasis added. Experience >> argument . (Not agreeing that convincing her to change her mind is a good idea. )

Now, you may feel that having such strongly held political and economic views is a good thing, but I don't think it is.

I look at it differently: it matters why someone holds what I think are wrong views. Because credible sources like econ professors taught them the free market always makes everyone better off? No problem. Because they figure they can buy off the right politicians with cash on hand, and devil take the hindmost? Problem!

In the first sort of case, exposure to new evidence will either change her mind, or mine. The second kind is likely to be irreconcilable. And I don't see any way to compartmentalize political values away from other values, or values in general away from a romantic relationship (especially if you hope someday to have kids).

 

[Mise]

I look at it differently: it matters why someone holds what I think are wrong views. Because credible sources like econ professors taught them the free market always makes everyone better off? No problem. Because they figure they can buy off the right politicians with cash on hand, and devil take the hindmost? Problem!

In the first sort of case, exposure to new evidence will either change her mind, or mine. The second kind is likely to be irreconcilable. And I don't see any way to compartmentalize political values away from other values, or values in general away from a romantic relationship (especially if you hope someday to have kids).

What you're describing with the 1st and 2nd person are two people with different personalities, and therefore two different sets of values, but the same political views. Doesn't that prove my point? The 1st person is a decent person, not because of their political views, but because of the way that they go about forming them. The 2nd person sounds like a horrible person; they sound greedy and uncaring. The reason you should break up with them has nothing to do with their views, but with the person that they are. I'm not saying that political views can't shed a light onto an individual's underlying personality. All I'm saying is that whether an individual's underlying personality is good or bad is independent of the views they hold. They can be a good capitalist or an evil communist, or vice versa.

When I recommend that people detach their politics from their identity, I'm recommending that we don't paint someone's personality with the same brush as their politics. They can still be a wonderful, caring, compassionate, loving person, even if their politics is fundamentally incompatible with my own. Ultimately, my own "values" are various aspects of my personality, along the lines of being caring, compassionate, etc, and they manifest themselves politically and economically as a die-hard technocratic liberal centrist. They may manifest themselves in others in other ways (I'd be surprised if they didn't).

In short, I think we agree, and we're just using different language to describe the same thing.

 

[Defiant47]

^^^
Well-said

 

[Ayatollah So]

In short, I think we agree, and we're just using different language to describe the same thing.

Dammit, you're even harder to disagree with than El Mac

 

[Rashiminos]

When I recommend that people detach their politics from their identity, I'm recommending that we don't paint someone's personality with the same brush as their politics. They can still be a wonderful, caring, compassionate, loving person, even if their politics is fundamentally incompatible with my own. Ultimately, my own "values" are various aspects of my personality, along the lines of being caring, compassionate, etc, and they manifest themselves politically and economically as a die-hard technocratic liberal centrist. They may manifest themselves in others in other ways (I'd be surprised if they didn't).

I would tend to think someone's identity or personality had a hand in forming those politics. It that's not the case, then we have the absent driver problem.

Since we don't seem to have direct access to the minds of others, attempting to sort out via proxies doesn't seem to be a bad place to start.