MayNilad Man
King
If you accept God, and love him, you wouldn't be evil.
Or so they say, I'm not too sure on this one, personally.
A study of atheism worldwide
- Thread starter Masquerouge
- Start date
Or so they say, I'm not too sure on this one, personally.
SickCycle
Prince
This should be called a study of intelligent people world wide..
Are you implying that all atheists are intelligent people, all intelligent people are atheists, or both?
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
3 Denmark 5,413,000 43-80% 2,327,590-4,330,400
yay we be third
yay we be third
Murky
Deity
I think people just getting tired of the old Gods and Monster bit. Atheism is growing like a new cult with many people on the fence observing.
I don't believe in god because I'm a factual person. I'd like to, surely that would be an easier way of living thinking that when you die theres something forever good waiting for you. But I just need some proof. Until I see some cold hard fact, my vote rests for atheism.
Indeed, I do say that I accept its a valid position, I just don't think that the terminology is correct
I also wouldn't try attach any labels of intelligence to the belief in god (though that wouldn't stop me occasionally saying when I see some surreal news piece "only (insert religious affiliation here)s!") I've read plenty of pieces against abortion or euthanasia on religious grounds where I appreciated the quality of the writing, structuring of the argument and all the academic hallmarks... I just struggle to reconcile how the conclusion was arrived at with the facts presented...
I'm going to say I agree to disagree CivGen, because I don't feel there is enough space between your proposed agnostic theism, where one takes on faith that there are god(s) and that they are unknowable and theism which doesn't preclude god(s) being incomprehensible.
dcmort93
The Stig
I can't help but agree with u
just look at how many wars have been started because of a religious disagreement and how many laws have been enacted because of religion (Under God in the US and Texas pledges)
cubsfan6506
Got u
Such a statement is racist. Since this would imply that scandinavians are super intelligent, which since they're not makes this statement a logical fallacy. Since you appear to be an athiest be clearly aren't intelligent you=stupid.
Royal Flush:
"The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so, cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are both able and willing. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can, but will not, than they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?"
"The gods can either take away evil from the world and will not, or, being willing to do so, cannot; or they neither can nor will, or lastly, they are both able and willing. If they have the will to remove evil and cannot, then they are not omnipotent. If they can, but will not, than they are not benevolent. If they are neither able nor willing, then they are neither omnipotent nor benevolent. Lastly, if they are both able and willing to annihilate evil, how does it exist?"
Yes, the problem of evil, mentioned almost every time someone debates the existence of God. There are in fact solutions to it other than the nonexistence of God.
Nylan
Characters Welcome
And then we can get into that whole "first cause" business. Which we won't, because this isn't the thread for that.
Yes Dachs, that bump bothers me as well.
Yes Dachs, that bump bothers me as well.
Nylan
Characters Welcome
There's also an issue with "can but are not willing = not benevolent". How can you know that conclusively?
Well, God is only omnipotent and omnibenevolent according to some definitions of God - the definitions that have become commonplace in modern views, admittedly, but not the only possible way to see God. I see no reason to make omnipotence and omnibenevolence defining traits.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
and what about male bellybuttons? I want those explained as well.
Let's say that you were to create a far-flung news network, and you somehow had the capacity to observe all of the inexplicable tragedy that occurs on Earth each day:
all of the murders,
all of the car wrecks
all of the rapes
all of the mutilations
all of the torture
all the miscarriages and stillbirths
all of the disease
all of the starvation
all of the destruction
all of the terrorism
Let's say you had a news feed that delivered this all to you in real time.
Just ten minutes with this news feed would be unbearable. Thousands of tragic, heartwrenching events would impinge themselves upon you every minute. It would make you vomit over and over and over again until you passed out in exhaustion and despair.
In other words, the amount of gut-wrenching, anguished tragedy in our world is unspeakable.
Meanwhile, there is a housewife in Pasadena who firmly believes that God answered her prayer this morning to remove the mustard stain from her favorite blouse. She prayed to God to help with the stain, and after she washed it the stain was gone. Praise Jesus! There are tens of millions of people in the United States who firmly believe that God is personally helping them each day with their trivial prayers like this. They believe that they have a personal relationship with God, that God hears their prayers each day, and that God has time to reach down and remove the mustard molecules one by one. They believe it with all of their hearts.
It makes you wonder: If God has the time and the will to answer these trivial prayers, then why does he have no time for the millions of other massively serious problems that arise on earth every day?
Simply look at the world we live in. All around us we have murderers, rapists, robbers, child molesters, terrorists, etc... How do they do their deeds? If God is all-knowing and God answers prayers, then we have to believe that:
God watches them as they murder, rape, molest and terrorize other people millions of times a day, but he does nothing to stop them.
God watches the victims as they are being murdered, raped, molested and terrorized, but he does nothing to help them.
God completely ignores the prayers of the planet to eliminate murder, rape, child molestation and terrorism and allows these atrocities to continue unabated.
According to the Standard Model of God, God is an omniscient, all-powerful, all-loving being who answers prayers. Imagine God sitting on his magnificent throne in heaven looking down upon Earth, seeing every detail. God speaks:
"Look at all of those praying people getting tortured in that death camp. Excellent! I won't do anything to stop that. And look at that little girl down there being raped and murdered. Perfect! She is praying like mad, and so is her mother, but I won't do anything to stop that. And there are three terrorists preparing to blow up a church and kill 1,500 people who are saying the Lord's Prayer to me right now. Outstanding! I won't do anything to stop that. How wonderful it is that 1,000 prayerful people will die of starvation today in Ethiopia. I love it! I won't do anything to stop that. Oh… and there's little Suzy Jankins praying that I remove that pimple from her nose for her big date with Chad tomorrow. Let me go help Suzy right now…"
Do you believe in a God who acts like this? Of course not. If you believe that God is specifically reaching down from heaven to answer your trivial prayer to remove a zit or to wash out a mustard stain or to help you find your lost keys, while at the same time God is allowing 27,000 children to die of starvation each day by specifically ignoring their prayers, then your God is insane.
oh, about male belly buttons, that is where the cord was to your mother so you could receive nutrients and oxygen
all of the murders,
all of the car wrecks
all of the rapes
all of the mutilations
all of the torture
all the miscarriages and stillbirths
all of the disease
all of the starvation
all of the destruction
all of the terrorism
Let's say you had a news feed that delivered this all to you in real time.
Just ten minutes with this news feed would be unbearable. Thousands of tragic, heartwrenching events would impinge themselves upon you every minute. It would make you vomit over and over and over again until you passed out in exhaustion and despair.
In other words, the amount of gut-wrenching, anguished tragedy in our world is unspeakable.
Meanwhile, there is a housewife in Pasadena who firmly believes that God answered her prayer this morning to remove the mustard stain from her favorite blouse. She prayed to God to help with the stain, and after she washed it the stain was gone. Praise Jesus! There are tens of millions of people in the United States who firmly believe that God is personally helping them each day with their trivial prayers like this. They believe that they have a personal relationship with God, that God hears their prayers each day, and that God has time to reach down and remove the mustard molecules one by one. They believe it with all of their hearts.
It makes you wonder: If God has the time and the will to answer these trivial prayers, then why does he have no time for the millions of other massively serious problems that arise on earth every day?
Simply look at the world we live in. All around us we have murderers, rapists, robbers, child molesters, terrorists, etc... How do they do their deeds? If God is all-knowing and God answers prayers, then we have to believe that:
God watches them as they murder, rape, molest and terrorize other people millions of times a day, but he does nothing to stop them.
God watches the victims as they are being murdered, raped, molested and terrorized, but he does nothing to help them.
God completely ignores the prayers of the planet to eliminate murder, rape, child molestation and terrorism and allows these atrocities to continue unabated.
According to the Standard Model of God, God is an omniscient, all-powerful, all-loving being who answers prayers. Imagine God sitting on his magnificent throne in heaven looking down upon Earth, seeing every detail. God speaks:
"Look at all of those praying people getting tortured in that death camp. Excellent! I won't do anything to stop that. And look at that little girl down there being raped and murdered. Perfect! She is praying like mad, and so is her mother, but I won't do anything to stop that. And there are three terrorists preparing to blow up a church and kill 1,500 people who are saying the Lord's Prayer to me right now. Outstanding! I won't do anything to stop that. How wonderful it is that 1,000 prayerful people will die of starvation today in Ethiopia. I love it! I won't do anything to stop that. Oh… and there's little Suzy Jankins praying that I remove that pimple from her nose for her big date with Chad tomorrow. Let me go help Suzy right now…"
Do you believe in a God who acts like this? Of course not. If you believe that God is specifically reaching down from heaven to answer your trivial prayer to remove a zit or to wash out a mustard stain or to help you find your lost keys, while at the same time God is allowing 27,000 children to die of starvation each day by specifically ignoring their prayers, then your God is insane.
oh, about male belly buttons, that is where the cord was to your mother so you could receive nutrients and oxygen
Given that the existence of any evil at all shows that God cannot (logically) be both omnipotent and omnibenevolent, the total volume is irrelevant - especially when it is compared to eternity. Allowing suffering to happen, for any reason, is not the same as ignoring it. And why do I care what Suzy Jenkins thinks about her blouse?
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