A whole new EMC?

[NaZdReG]

mid to late game techs can cost 5000-10000 espionage points. that seems like a lot but it is possible with scotland yard to get to 250-500 per turn. 4 turns per 1000. 20 turns per medieval tech. it wont be as rapid as the early game, but it is still worthwhile.

meanwhile if you are teching at a good pace and not worring about stealing.. the cost to sabotage health or happiness is dirt cheap throughout the game and can severly cripple a city. when you have enough espionage you can actually view the city the way you see your own. so its easy to figure out if the extra sick or extra unhappy will hurt worse.

also if war is far off you can pillage towns to nothing in a single turn, and wipe out strategic resources. its too bad they have to make the run back to the enemy each time though. I usually have 5+ spies making runs against the target civ.

NaZ

 

[darrelljs]

Anyway, this only works in the early to mid game, as later techs become too expensive.

I hope not, since we just started an SG based on tech stealing, and the only victory condition enabled is space race .

Darrell

 

[UncleJJ]

when you have enough espionage you can actually view the city the way you see your own.

I find this the most useful aspect of espionage, being able to see into enemy civs. It makes other aspects of the game so easy. In my games after courthouses let me run spy specialists I often have the ability to see into at least some of the enemies cities. It's very useful to see what they're building troops (danger) or buildings (relax) ) and also to scout out the gold from shrines or settled specialists to capture, plus I'm able to see the troops in and moving through all cities on the map (no surprise attacks against me) and of course what all civs are researching at all times (helps with what to research and trade).

I've not used the technology stealing trick you suggest but as I'm usually the tech leader (only prince and monarch games so far) why bother? The AIs tech very slowly now and one game was without trading techs not researched yourself. It almost seems you have to be very inefficient or to actively avoid doing your own research in order to have something to steal

 

[NaZdReG]

what the optimal situation is uncle is to find out what they are researching, and research your #2 priority tech instead if they are the same. steal it from them and repeat.

NaZ

 

[aelf]

Damn, looks like this idea is no longer fresh. That's the problem with not being able to get BTS quickly

Should we think of another idea?


@darell: BTS is already out in Malaysia?! Why is Singapore so pathetic?

 

[axident]

On the Great Wall with Imperialistic, I'd like to mention that it's one of only two % bonus traits in the game that are actually multiplied.

If you earn 1 XP normally, that would be 2 XP with either the Great Wall or with Imperialistic. If you have both, you might expect 1 * (100% + 100% GW + 100% Imp) = 3 XP for Great General, but you actually get 4 XP. That's 1 XP * 2 * 2.

The only other % bonus that I know of in Civ IV is the Bureaucracy commerce 50% bonus that is added in before the commerce slider so that , and spy point multipliers are put in after the 50% bonus instead of at the same time.

What? I think in an older thread, these 2 myths were debunked.

 

[r_rolo1]

Aelf, I would strongly suggest that you do what you proposed. The RBTS1 teams are using Mayans ( non Philoshopical) and they can't research by themselfs more than worker techs, Writing and Alphabet. Team A even declined the use of the Spy bomb . You proposal is sufficiently diferent to have a significant learning potencial... And it would be surely fun to see GSpies being spitted from your GP farm and spreading havoc in the world

 

[popejubal]

What? I think in an older thread, these 2 myths were debunked.

These 2 myths?

I've tested both using Worldbuilder.

Try it yourself. I'll test it again under BtS, but both were true as of the most recent patch in Warlords.

 

[aelf]

If things go well I can get the game started by the weekend.

 

[Scaphism]

I would love to see you try this aelf. I fired up my own version as Sulieman, grabbed the great wall and managed to get the pyramids and some great territory as well. I got into a dominant position but just kind of sputtered out, not knowing what to do with all the options open to me. I had spies coming out of my ears though, which was fun.

I've started a bunch of games recently and I don't think I've found a good stone site in any of them. There never seems to be a decent food tile near stone.

 

[kniteowl]

I'd like to see a quick game pursuing a Religion Victory using the AP wonder.

or maybe not... too many exploits there lol

 

[aelf]

I just found out that the BTS release here has been delayed to next week at the earliest

 

[popejubal]

I just found out that the BTS release here has been delayed to next week at the earliest

Aelf, where do you live?

Anyway, the ability to steal tech as you please in the early part of the game is a great resource. You can beeline to some tech, steal a ton of techs to backfill with your great spy, trade for a couple of other techs as needed and keep trading much later than you normally would since you don't worry as much about WFYABTA.

...then later in the game, switch to a normal farm/specialist/cottage economy with this great spy tech theft just used in the beginning when it is at its most effective. Almost as if your first Great Scientist could give you upteen-thousand beakers worth techs that someone else had researched instead of having to spend them all in one place.

 

[aelf]

Aelf, where do you live?

I'm still stuck in Singapore. I guess Civ doesn't have a big appeal here and they don't really care about releasing it early.

...then later in the game, switch to a normal farm/specialist/cottage economy with this great spy tech theft just used in the beginning when it is at its most effective. Almost as if your first Great Scientist could give you upteen-thousand beakers worth techs that someone else had researched instead of having to spend them all in one place.

I agree. I think once we hit the Renaissance, it's better to shift focus back to getting GS's. And a GS in the early game won't hurt.

 

[Uncle Istvan]

Out of curiosity, did this ever actually happen? Or is this game yet to begin?

 

[UncleJJ]

It hasn't happened yet. aelf did not have a copy of BtS last time he posted about that. He also was going to be busy at sometime with work or study, so I guess that's what occured.

 

[aelf]

The last time I checked, less than 2 weeks ago, there was still no BTS in stores. So I bought Bioshock instead. I'm not sure if I'll still be getting BTS. The point was to get it early enough before I leave for my studies. The point is moot by now.

Anyway, I think the ALCs are going to move up to Emperor soon.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

You can get mad discounts on spy missions, including techsteals, by having a spy sit in the city for 5 turns, especially if your state religion is in said city. The result tends to be it costs less EP to steal a tech than it costs beakers to self research it, if you abuse this. Your spies will be caught just sitting around if the city they are in has a security bureau in it, though. Beware.

Here's my steps to it.

1) Focus EP accumulation on a couple of the AI tech leaders
1.33) Spies force those leaders out of theocracy. (Might be unnecessary because they might not be using theocracy. An AI using a non-theocracy religious civic is rare as hell in BtS before Liberalism, but possible)
1.66) On the same turn as 1.33, pop a missionary in a worthless backwater city belonging to those leaders, ones that will never be able to scrape together the hammers to build a security bureau, nor the pop to whip one. See lots of tundra and ice around a rival city? It's so perfect. (missionary bit might be unnecessary alongside 1.33 if this leader is your religious buddy)
2) Send a load of spies into the aforementioned craptown. Order them to sleep.
3) As soon as one of those leaders discovers a tech you do not know, wake up those sleeping spies and have them try to filch that tech until one succeeds. Failure costs no diplomacy points and no EP, so have at it! Put the remainders back to sleep as soon as one succeeds.
4) Send the successful spy back, as well as some fresh ones to replace any who were busted.

This strategy saved ...<Snip>... on my last emperor game. There was mansa musa, washington, justinian and pacal on another continent all sharing a religion, peacefully teching, building, trading and HAVING GAY SEX WITH EACH OTHER. Miss something there Methos? They had too much land and military tech to fear a balls out invasion, so I split my sliders between self research and espoinage while building plenty of +EP buildings. I stole everything they beat me to while self researching down paths they weren't touching and hoarding every tech I got that way. This got me a comfortable spaceship win.

To expidite this, once I had flight, I attacked Justinian, took a coastal city of his, sued for peace immediately, and rushbought an airport there for my spies to immediately come to.

 

[Defiance]

Espionage isn't well known but there is a succession game on Emperor level where they used nothing but espionage and even ruled out spy bombs (all done thru the slider) and they were just as advanced as the highest AI, it's very much possible, with spy bombs it's almost easy

I myself have never done it but I've seen others, I'm still trying to grasp the other aspects of the game so I don't want to go too crazy.

You should really have Beyond the Sword lol It's available everywhere it's like 35 bucks hehe

I also love the name, you should def stick with it.

EDIT: I just read your post about the stores being out? Where do you live, I find that odd that there isnt a single copy in town anywhere. When I got mine I went to the best buy near my house and they were out so I went to another one across town and they had one. Have you gone to multiple stores? Theres usually a store somewhere that has it and if you have trouble try a smaller store like a gamestop theres usually dozens of them around the different counties and since most people like myself goto major outlets you can usually find a copy if your dedicated enough, I've done it on more then one occassion, it's taken dozens of stores sometimes but it's worth it considering it's just a couple hours and a bit of driving or a lot of phone time. I also find that driving is better then calling, sometimes they don't have it in the computer but they'll have a hidden one behind some other games that just got lost/misplaced/forgotten, or someone is saving it for a buddy or wants it themselves and they just lie lol but can't take it off the shelf because of a manager I'm serious hehe I know people that have done it.

 

[LingLinsRevenge]

I just read your post about the stores being out? Where do you live, I find that odd that there isnt a single copy in town anywhere. When I got mine I went to the best buy near my house...

He lives in Singapore -- I believe -- so not the standard situation

I would be willing to buy a copy and send it to him, but he is going to college (or some form of secondary education --

Given the literacy and insight he has displayed in these forums -- he will totally master high education -- advanced studies or what ever --
(as a former college prof, I wish my students had 1/2 the abilities that Aelf displays regularly on these games) --

Frankly, I was stunned when I learn that he lives at home and is in high school --

Aelf – good luck in school (you will need little) – while I am sad to see the EMC go on hiatus – I hope you will be back –