Aaron russo on the 9-11 inside job

Status
Not open for further replies.
There is a saying in engineering to "never trust a truss", which was the floor design of th WTC buildings. Eventually enough pressure built up on the structure that led to a catastrophic failure.

What pressure? The steel building shouldnt collaps even after a day of fire not to speak of 50 min. It collapsed in free fall speed(10 sec) like there was no structure bellow where the fire took place, firefighters and local workes have overheard sounds of explosions and traces of military explosives were found in the dust.
All the official investigation is the farce in the face of general public.
 
To avoid the truth/questioning/doubt is actually smart move in short term. I am just avarage who for some reasons find it less strainful to ask himself unconfortable questions.

See:

My question is: if the conspiracy is real and the whole thing was an inside job - so what? What changes? That the US government isn't an entirely benevolent institution and prone to subterfuge, even (occasionally) against its own populace? Yeah, we knew that already. That Bush and much of his cabinet weren't particularly effective leaders and committed war crimes? Yeah we knew that. That we shouldn't have invaded Iraq and Afghanistan? Yeah we knew that.

It's a common theme of many of these conspiracy theories - Benghazi, The Moon Landing, The Kennedy Assassination, hell the Maine boiler explosion - like ok, say this was an intentional coverup, now what? Gotcha to something that happened a decade ago? It doesn't really matter. Move on.

People don't care because it doesn't matter.
 
I dont have much doubt 9/11 was orchestrated inside job. Unfortunately an avarege Joe seem to prefere comforting lies instead of waking up to naked reality...

Yes it's so comforting to think our government knew terrorists were hell bent on engineering a catastrophic terrorist attack and despite this numerous terrorist got on planes, took them over in synchronized fashion, and then flew them into some of the most heavily guarded buildings in the world killing thousands of people. I sleep so soundly thanks to this comforting lie I tell myself Zzzzzzz
 
Yes it's so comforting to think our government knew terrorists were hell bent on engineering a catastrophic terrorist attack and despite this numerous terrorist got on planes, took them over in synchronized fashion, and then flew them into some of the most heavily guarded buildings in the world killing thousands of people. I sleep so soundly thanks to this comforting lie I tell myself Zzzzzzz

Something more your goverment has chosen the targets. It wasnt just watching while voluntarily suspending any military action. Besides I am not even sure if those terorists knew how to pilot these planes.
 
I think you totally missed the point of my post. The reality of 9/11 is far more terrifying, to me, than the wackadoo conspiracy theories.

There was no conspiracy. Our security apparatus was either incompetent, unprepared, or simply inadequate, and probably a mix of all three. That is what is truly terrifying. Horrific, tragic terrorists attacks have happened, will continue to happen, and are not the product of some higher order illuminati type conspiracy with a grand plan for some dystopic worldwide order.

In a weird way I think the conspiracy theories are actually a more comforting belief--it would mean horrible terrorist attacks like 9/11 happened for some grand, big orchestrated long term plan. It would mean someone is really in charge of this crazy world. But there is no Wizard behind the curtain. Chaotic mass murder that is unanticipated, small scale in its planning and implementation, and that serves no long term plan other than to simply terrorize people, has happened and will continue to happen under the noses of the people in charge. That is scarier.
 
People don't care because it doesn't matter.

Of course it does. You have to know and admit yourself the truth thats the only way out. People protested the Vietnam war and thats why it stoped.
 
Of course it does. You have to know and admit yourself the truth thats the only way out. People protested the Vietnam war and thats why it stoped.

People who protested the Viet Nam war and think that is why it stopped have a very exaggerated sense of their own importance.
 
I think you totally missed the point of my post. The reality of 9/11 is far more terrifying, to me, than the wackadoo conspiracy theories.

Well look at the old empires. Rome have had some serious abuse of power in its history yet it was beacon of civilisation for many centuries. The same with USA it can be corected and still manifest the values it was founded upon. Nobody comes even close to the US potential in that respect...
 
People who protested the Viet Nam war and think that is why it stopped have a very exaggerated sense of their own importance.

I am ready for some lesson here if you want to give it but I am sure it has helped...:)
 
Of course it does. You have to know and admit yourself the truth thats the only way out. People protested the Vietnam war and thats why it stoped.

Why? Way out of what? Again, what does "knowing the truth" about 9/11 change? What does it tell us about our government that we don't already know?

Well look at the old empires. Rome have had some serious abuse of power in its history yet it was beacon of civilisation for many centuries. The same with USA it can be corected and still manifest the values it was founded upon. Nobody comes even close to the US potential in that respect...

HAHAHAHAHAHA

this explains everything, actually.
 
I am ready for some lesson here if you want to give it but I am sure it has helped...:)

The war in Viet Nam ran its course and became no longer profitable. A lot of factors contributed to that, with protests being a very minor one at best. Eventually, you just run out of weapons to demonstrate and the failing regime you are supporting has nothing left to offer, so you leave. Mercenary 101.
 
There was no conspiracy. Our security apparatus was either incompetent, unprepared, or simply inadequate, and probably a mix of all three. That is what is truly terrifying. Horrific, tragic terrorists attacks have happened, will continue to happen, and are not the product of some higher order illuminati type conspiracy with a grand plan for some dystopic worldwide order.
I dont know much about these conspiracies in regard of illuminati and such but it does make some sense. What is tragedy for some is an opportunity for others...
However the collected facts and data would exclude all your suggestions of being unprepared etc. One can track purposeful and pretty well executed plan there.
In a weird way I think the conspiracy theories are actually a more comforting belief--it would mean horrible terrorist attacks like 9/11 happened for some grand, big orchestrated long term plan. It would mean someone is really in charge of this crazy world. But there is no Wizard behind the curtain. Chaotic mass murder that is unanticipated, small scale in its planning and implementation, and that serves no long term plan other than to simply terrorize people, has happened and will continue to happen under the noses of the people in charge. That is scarier.
I think you are kidding yourself. This was not small scale attack becouse in consequences it has changed security in the whole world and in aftermath has allowed several invasions which killed millions and destabilased and cripled vast regions.
 
Why? Way out of what? Again, what does "knowing the truth" about 9/11 change? What does it tell us about our government that we don't already know?
The more people are aware of their surroundings the more they can take responsibility and the less likely there is going some big brother "taking care" for them.
 
I think you are kidding yourself. This was not small scale attack becouse in consequences it has changed security in the whole world and in aftermath has allowed several invasions which killed millions and destabilased and cripled vast regions.

Small scale "in planning and implementation." Not in effect. I.e. a few guys, plane tickets, some hours flight training, and some box cutters.

The more people are aware of their surroundings the more they can take responsibility and the less likely there is going some big brother "taking care" for them.

I think Owen's earlier point was a good one, and that was that people who don't believe in crazy conspiracy theories like this are still plenty capable of critical thinking and maintenance of a healthy skepticism of their government and authority in general.
 
What pressure? The steel building shouldnt collaps even after a day of fire not to speak of 50 min. It collapsed in free fall speed(10 sec) like there was no structure bellow where the fire took place, firefighters and local workes have overheard sounds of explosions and traces of military explosives were found in the dust.
All the official investigation is the farce in the face of general public.

The thing is that jet fuel burns at a higher temperature than regular fuel and eventually the heat weakened the structure until a catastrophic collapse occurred.
 
I think Owen's earlier point was a good one, and that was that people who don't believe in crazy conspiracy theories like this are still plenty capable of critical thinking and maintenance of a healthy skepticism of their government and authority in general.
I suppose if you dont want to see the whole truth in order to keep your mental health and balance it does make some sense. But the many criminal violations of international law including destruction of secular goverments in Iraq, Libya and Syria with their consequences isnt any less crazy for democratic society - only it doesnt happen right home.
 
The thing is that jet fuel burns at a higher temperature than regular fuel and eventually the heat weakened the structure until a catastrophic collapse occurred.

The flame smoke was black not white like in cases where there is an intense oxigen burning which would suggest not such an intense burning and number of people from the flores above where the southern building was hit could escape even after the impact which does suggest the same.
There is no way that just the heat in one limited place could make the whole construction fall the way it did.
 
There is no way that just the heat in one limited place could make the whole construction fall the way it did.

This statement conflicts with my knowledge of engineering. Unless you have some sort of credible support for it, it will be disregarded.

A single floor collapse puts all the material above that floor in motion, generating momentum. When that moving mass hits the stationary top of the subsequent floor, that momentum creates an impact force far in excess of the weight of the material. That force is only partially dissipated by the collapse of the next floor. Most of it is passed on to the subsequent floor. And so on.

The momentum of the impact is sufficient, through this distribution, to collapse several floors simultaneously, allowing the mass to resume falling after a barely perceptible interval and creating an enormous amount of momentum before encountering a second resistance point many floors below. The impact force at the second resistance point is sufficient to distribute across all remaining resistance all the way to the ground level and beyond with collapsing effect.

Basically, once the upper part of the tower starts falling, other than two imperceptible pauses, it is in free fall.
 
@Tim: I know you as a honest guy. Why dont you watch first 20' of the video I posted and see if an Nobel prize winner and couple other scientist together with some other people who witnessed the situation life can provide you with proper credible support?


This video made by architects and engineers claims that 1,500 experts from the field have a serious doubts about the official report:
Link to video.
 
@Tim: I know you as a honest guy. Why dont you watch first 20' of the video I posted and see if an Nobel prize winner and couple other scientist together with some other people who witnessed the situation life can provide you with proper credible support?

Five minutes in. Could have skipped this far.
Aftermath of 9/11 has had catastrophic consequences on the world. Accepted.
Violent death=bad. Accepted.
Experts can be found to support most anything. Accepted.

Section one...collapse of WTC 7.
The video refers to the 9/11 Commission Report as if that were the source of "cover up" style explanations. The NIST report is where detailed failure analysis is found. Analysis that has been accepted by the vast majority of architects and engineers despite the several hundred dissenters in the "must be something" movement. No amount of "I watched a video and it looks like a controlled demolition" is going to outweigh actual analysis.

The detailed listing of factors that made the situation at WTC different from any other high rise structure fire are more than sufficient to account for the different result, in my opinion. 99% plus of architects and engineers agree.

Section two...destruction of evidence.
At least now they get around to mentioning that the information they are trying to contradict is the NIST report. Their basic foundation is "the wreckage got treated in an unconventional manner." No kidding. Yes, when the back deck balcony collapses off an apartment building during a party every scrap of wreckage is, by law, collected and analyzed. Yes, crashed planes are reconstructed piece by piece. No, I do not find it conclusive, or even incriminating, that a forty square mile facility was not constructed so these buildings could be painstakingly reconstructed within and analyzed in the typical fashion. This section is basically nonsense dressed up in sensationalism.

Section three...more "lost evidence."
I'm losing patience with the whole thing here Mech. Again, accepted without contest that in some cases testing for explosives residue is called for, and in this case it was not done. However, testing millions of tons of material for residue when explanations are readily available was not warranted, other than to preempt this sort of sensationalized nonsense. The cost of such testing for so dubious a purpose (since no doubt it would have merely reduced the nonsense without really preventing it anyway) wasn't remotely warranted.

I give up. We are back to "there have been similar or worse fires in similar buildings." No. As already discussed, there have not. The fire was very different, as it had multiple points of origin. The combating of the fire was very different, as the resources available were very different, particularly in terms of water use that typically cools things down, even if the fire continues to burn unabated. The building was very different, in that the length of horizontal spans, corresponding directly to the amount of horizontal expansion, was longer than in other buildings exposed to fires. These differences are explained in the NIST report, and ignored, repeatedly rather than disputed. Yet the false claims that this event was "just like" prior events continues to be droned over and over.

So I only made it twelve minutes in, but they are already circling back through the same tired inaccuracies. I appreciate your confidence that I would provide an honest critique, and I apologize for not hanging in the full twenty minutes, but if they had anything new the should have led with it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom