The Case Against George W Bush

I mean what we have right now is just peaches.

did you really expect the predictions from the Bush crowd to come true?

"Mission Accomplished" wasn't the end of a great victory, it was the beginning of another quagmire

were you griping about it back then or did you wait for Obama to take office?
 
Well compared to now the situation is worse than before when there was a big increase in troops the situation was stable and deaths were much fewer than in the early stages. Things were starting to become stable and then as soon as the troops left things destabilised and as a result of the Americans leaving chaos has entered the region with genocide occurring. Considering this started in Syria, this has fallen on the watch of President Obama, but it seems that genocide is preferable to American intervention. Someone said that "you might not be interested in the Middle East, but the Middle East is interested in you".

did you really expect the predictions from the Bush crowd to come true?

"Mission Accomplished" wasn't the end of a great victory, it was the beginning of another quagmire

were you griping about it back then or did you wait for Obama to take office?
Don't forget that after defeating the Germans quite a large number of troops were left behind for defence and even now troops are still there. Does that mean that WW2 is still going?
 
The "big increase in troops", which was actually nothing of the sort, wasn't the major reason things stabilized. It was because the US decided to pay off both sides.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Iraq_War_troop_surge_of_2007

January 2007: U.S. troop levels in Iraq are at 132,000.[1]
March, 2007: March 20, 2007: U.S. Troop strength is 152,000[14]
April, 2007: U.S. troop levels in Iraq are at 150,000.[16]
September, 2007: U.S. troop surge hits its peak strength at 168,000. This number is maintained until November 2007 when troops begin drawdown.[34]

decreased violence in iraq – more to do with money than the surge

It is intensely irritating to hear McCain repeat again and again that he supported the “Surge” strategy and that this strategy is responsible for a reduction in violence in Iraq. Furthermore, Obama is now whistling this tune in an effort to endear uninformed Americans and convince them of his competence on national security.

In all this talk of surge success, very little is being mentioned of the immense amount of cash being handed over to many of Iraq’s violent tribes and militias – putting vast amounts of criminals on U.S. payroll to NOT reach for their automatic weapons and plant IEDs. You got it. We’re monetarily bribing down the violence. And we’ll likely continue to do so as we reduce troop numbers.

I’m not saying I oppose this strategy. Whatever works, right? But to continuously claim “The surge is a success” without acknowledging the effect of these payoffs is equivalent to presenting a facade to the American people. Of course, we should expect nothing less. How many lies were told to garner support for the war in the first place?

Yet we hear over and over that the surge’s success has proven McCain right. I know at some point I should develop a callous to the lies, but it seems nearly impossible and we’re all left with high blood pressure and anger over our leaders’ inabilities to prioritize truth over popularity.

Finally, CNN offered an interview with terrorism expert Peter Bergen on 360 last night in which he said,

I actually think both the Democrats and the Republicans have been overemphasizing the surge. If it was just about the surge, the violence would be back up again because the surge is over. There are some underlying factors that are much more important in Iraq in my view.

One — the fact that Al Qaeda in Iraq, they basically scored a series of own goals by its Taliban-style tactics, producing this wave of revulsion against and amongst the Sunnis. Now we put up a 100,000 Sunni militia on the American payroll, people who used to be shooting at the United States who are now on our payroll.

We also see the Prime Minister Maliki, no one could say a good thing about him a year and a half ago in Washington. Turning out to be a somewhat effective leader going into Basra, taking out the Shia militias there, going into Sadr City, taking out the Shia militias there.

We’ve also seen the Iraqi army which, Anderson, is really much larger than the Afghan army and much more effective in a country which is smaller and with a smaller population.

So there were some underlying factors that actually suggest that long- term success in Iraq is plausible. It’s possible the surge, of course, was one aspect of it. But to say that the surge caused all these changes is I think simply very simplistic essentially.
Also, Rick Rowley of Big Noise Films produced a video report entitled Uncovering the Truth Behind the Anbar Success Story showing Sunni leaders who had formerly been associated with Al Qaeda in Iraq and responsible for ethnic cleansing being paid off. In an interview with Katie Halper of Alternet.org last September, Rowley indicated,

There have been a lot of reports about the fact that the people who the U.S. is working with, the supposed “freedom fighters,” the “counter-insurgents” are former insurgents. They were Iraqi al Qaeda before they started working with the Americans. That is troubling because if they were fighting the Americans once, they’ll fight Americans again. And more troubling for the future of Iraq is the fact that many of the tribes that the U.S. is working with are war criminals who are directly responsible for ethnic cleansing and who are using American support to prepare for sectarian civil war. The U.S. is funding Sunni militias. They already funded the Shia militias. They’re now funding all sides of this sectarian war.

Here’s an NPR interview with British journalist Peter Cockburn discussing U.S. payments to Iraqi militiamen.

In an April 2008 report, The Christian Science Monitor stated,

He (Abu Abdullah of the Islamic Army of Iraq) also maintains that while the US has succeeded in driving a wedge between AQI (Al Qaeda in Iraq) and Sunnis in Anbar Province, many of the tribesmen there who are now on the American payroll are still aiding IAI and other insurgent groups.

Members of these US-backed militias now number almost 91,000 and are paid a total of $16 million a month in salaries by the US. They are often lauded by President Bush in his speeches on Iraq.

The US military now calls these Sunni militias “Sons of Iraq.” Iraqis simply refer to all these groups as sahwas. But the Shiite-led government is resisting US pressure to fold these groups, especially the ones in Baghdad and Diyala provinces, into the Army and police. “Trust me, the sahwas are ultimately with the resistance, heart and mind,” says Abu Abdullah.

There is no debating the fact that the drop in violence in Iraq is largely due in part to the payoffs – right or wrong – the U.S. is giving the militias. I am not squabbling with this strategy. I am merely raising my voice in protest of the campaign of misinformation of the surge’s success by the president, McCain and now Obama.

We cannot judge our approval or disapproval of these candidate’s ideas if they are not straightforward. I have little doubt the empty political rhetoric will continue, but at least those of us with a minute ability to apply research and information to our opinions and decision-making can help proliferate necessary evidence to support or refute the politicians’ shameful mumbo-jumbo.

UPDDATE 09.05.08: The International Herald Tribune gives more detail of the Shia government’s potential targeting of Sunni Awakening leaders.

The Awakening members are currently paid by the American military to operate checkpoints, guard buildings and, in some cases, to refrain from bombing military convoys and shooting at American and Iraqi soldiers.

Earlier in the day, Jabbar, 31, who is known in the neighborhood as Abu Sajad, said angrily that the government was trying to undermine the councils and to make them fail.
Twenty thousand additional troops is relatively tiny compared to the 130,000 who were already there. Then, more as an afterthought than anything else, the number was eventually increased another 18,000 just two months prior to the troops being withdrawn. This was probably done because they knew that nobody would think only 20,000 more troops had the dramatic effect they tried to claim it did.

What turned the balance was bribes.

Like most everything else which came out of the mouths of George Bush and the Republican congressmen concerning Iraq, it is just lies, intentional distortions, and blatant misinformation.
 
Well compared to now the situation is worse than before when there was a big increase in troops the situation was stable and deaths were much fewer than in the early stages. Things were starting to become stable and then as soon as the troops left things destabilised and as a result of the Americans leaving chaos has entered the region with genocide occurring.

Compared to now the situation is worse? You're still spinning, things were becoming more stable after we started leaving and was more stable for 2-3 years after we had left - it wasn't "stable" when the army was there. There's just no way the Sunnis are going to be ruled in Iraq by the Shia, if we were still there the only difference would be our additional contribution to the body count.

Don't forget that after defeating the Germans quite a large number of troops were left behind for defence and even now troops are still there. Does that mean that WW2 is still going?

:confused: A "liberated" Iraq told us to leave and the Iraqi death toll was higher when we were there, not after we left. Germany isn't comparable, the Nazis started the war, the Iraqis did not. Thats just the first of several flaws with your analogy...

Did your griping about Iraq begin with Obama in office?
 
Obama has no power to keep gungho Aussies out of Iraq. If things are getting worse while gungho Aussie sit in Aussieland, then maybe the gungho Aussies have a responsibility to go in and make things better.
 
We can call them "crusaders" who declare a second "holy war".
 
They would think they were though, just as they do now.
 
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