Abrahamic "god"?

[El_Machinae]

I can read the Abrahamic texts and just play along in the paradigm. Let's suppose I believe every single miracle described. Every single one. Moses was given visions of the beginning of time. Jesus fed a crowd of thousands.

Is any of this sufficient evidence to believe that it's describing "God"? Capital G, God. The author of morality. The founder and cause of the entire universe.

Or is it merely sufficient evidence to believe in a powerful supernatural entity? I mean, I can quake for my immortal soul, it's clearly more powerful than I am. And heck, I've not wasted time recycling stuff at work, 'cuz the boss says so. So, I'll abandon morality out of desperation. But that's not the same thing as saying that the Biblical god is God.

When Samuel ordered the stabbing of babies on "God's" command, it's certainly plausible that obedience was the pragmatic thing to do. But did the soldiers have sufficient evidence to believe that it was actually the 'right' thing to do?

Jesus commands us to obey this god. Sure. Pragmaticism says yes. But 'love' this god? Do we have sufficient evidence to believe that it's lovable? worthy of love?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

No.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Short answer: uh?
Long answer: what?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Conservative religious faith and scientific reasoning do not mix well. Necessarily, one must take precedent over the other. Accepting the Abrahamic texts as truth precludes accepting many scientific truths. Opening the doors of faith tends to close doors of science and opening the doors of science tends to close doors of faith.

 

[Zkribbler]

I believe it was Star Trek V which first asked the question, "Why does God need a star ship?"

 

[timtofly]

Conservative religious faith and scientific reasoning do not mix well. Necessarily, one must take precedent over the other. Accepting the Abrahamic texts as truth precludes accepting many scientific truths. Opening the doors of faith tends to close doors of science and opening the doors of science tends to close doors of faith.

I think we are getting science confused with materialism. Those who accept God have no issues with science at all, it is materialism that is the issue. I think that even materialist, have to have some faith to accept that something comes from nothing.

 

[Kyriakos]

I can read the Abrahamic texts and just play along in the paradigm. Let's suppose I believe every single miracle described. Every single one. Moses was given visions of the beginning of time. Jesus fed a crowd of thousands.

Is any of this sufficient evidence to believe that it's describing "God"? Capital G, God. The author of morality. The founder and cause of the entire universe.

Or is it merely sufficient evidence to believe in a powerful supernatural entity? I mean, I can quake for my immortal soul, it's clearly more powerful than I am. And heck, I've not wasted time recycling stuff at work, 'cuz the boss says so. So, I'll abandon morality out of desperation. But that's not the same thing as saying that the Biblical god is God.

When Samuel ordered the stabbing of babies on "God's" command, it's certainly plausible that obedience was the pragmatic thing to do. But did the soldiers have sufficient evidence to believe that it was actually the 'right' thing to do?

Jesus commands us to obey this god. Sure. Pragmaticism says yes. But 'love' this god? Do we have sufficient evidence to believe that it's lovable? worthy of love?

Jewish religion does seem to be a lot more OCD-pain-based than ancient greek religion (not sure about norse). If one goes by Nietzsche (and the texts seem to allow for such an evaluation) a core difference is that jewish religion has the central story of "a weak/poor/nobody can defeat a strong/rich/warrior/noble" with the help of god, and/or the powerful will be ruined in hell while the pious may suffer here but will be rewarded in heaven. Contrast to ancient greek religion where all the dead are in hades, regardless of what they did. They are there cause that is where humans go when they die. Ethics is not tied to religion, in ancient Greece, apparently, and most of the cautionary tales there are that humans shouldn't commit hubris (by antagonising gods) and generally should just honor gods and not try to get in their way at all. Again contrasted with jewish religion, where you have prayer all the time, and pretty much a sinking inside nothingness.
I recall a funny phrase on TWC forums, years ago, on this: "You live in the desert; you live with goats, you walk with goats, goats are your only source of fun. Then someone comes along and tells you of heaven"

 

[Birdjaguar]

I think we are getting science confused with materialism. Those who accept God have no issues with science at all, it is materialism that is the issue. I think that even materialist, have to have some faith to accept that something comes from nothing.

Define your terms please.

 

[Perfection]

Does anyone else here just get annoyed wondering if you should capitalise God/god while writing a post? I know I do.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Trading in my god for this one;
And he signs his name with a capital G......

 

[Ryika]

When Samuel ordered the stabbing of babies on "God's" command, it's certainly plausible that obedience was the pragmatic thing to do. But did the soldiers have sufficient evidence to believe that it was actually the 'right' thing to do?

If in doubt, kill babies and everything's going to be alright. Probably.

But 'love' this god? Do we have sufficient evidence to believe that it's lovable? worthy of love?

Feeling true love, not just pretending, is not a choice to begin with, so to arrive at the point where you truly think a god that commits genocide, kills children, wants women to be seen as lesser beings than men and is all for slavery, you would need to have a special kind of mental illness that allows you to truly convince yourself that this god is so mighty that he can commit actions that at the face of it look truly evil, but in reality are good without ever doubting it.

 

[Perfection]

If in doubt, kill babies and everything's going to be alright. Probably.


Feeling true love, not just pretending, is not a choice to begin with, so to arrive at the point where you truly think a god that commits genocide, kills children, wants women to be seen as lesser beings than men and is all for slavery, you would need to have a special kind of mental illness that allows you to truly convince yourself that this god is so mighty that he can commit actions that at the face of it look truly evil, but in reality are good without ever doubting it.

i believe that mental illness is called the human condition

 

[Ryika]

That's deep, man.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

i believe that mental illness is called the human condition

So those of us who choose not to subscribe to it are not human?

 

[Mise]

I can read the Abrahamic texts and just play along in the paradigm. Let's suppose I believe every single miracle described. Every single one. Moses was given visions of the beginning of time. Jesus fed a crowd of thousands.

Is any of this sufficient evidence to believe that it's describing "God"? Capital G, God. The author of morality. The founder and cause of the entire universe.

It's not sufficient evidence, no, but wouldn't you say that they were the best candidate?

 

[Perfection]

So those of us who choose not to subscribe to it are not human?

Nah, just astute in overcoming that human deficit.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

If in doubt, kill babies and everything's going to be alright. Probably.

That's probably a reasonably sensible plan given the population trends.

 

[BvBPL]

Let's suppose I believe every single miracle described.

Included among those is the creation of the entire universe. Creation of the universe is an act that's pretty worthy of love.

 

[Kyriakos]

^

“[...] et mortuus est Dei Filius, prorsus credibile est, quia ineptum est;[...]"

Ie as long the general 'logic' is that when something very absurd is said, it has to be true because otherwise such an absurd thing wouldn't be said. Which is... tricky

 

[timtofly]

Materialism Is not a branch of science, and the term to use in opposition to religion or adherence to spiritual things.

Science is just the study of the physical universe, but both spiritual minded and material minded people use science in the same way.