Acheron more like Smaug

Better hoard comment above, well, maybe whoever ends up with a surplus of 1000 or 2000 gold first, ends up with Acheron beelining their capital. Poor Khazad, gunning for their "Overflowing" Dwarven Vaults, that's like catnip for dragons! Anyhow, lots of funny thoughts above, probably all modmod territory at that.
 
Wow, there are some great ideas in this thread now that the trolls have left.

I agree that just unholding Acheron is a bad idea, which was addressed in the OP. To make any of this feasible, you have to write custom AI for him or at least give him a -500% city attack penalty (assuming that will force the AI not to attack cities with him).
 
It is a hoard. The horde is the bunch of orcs hanging with him. And If Acheron ever stops guarding it, I am more than willing to take the city, without tier 4s or something.
 
There should be an event when you move next to Acheron the first time that'd allow you to give different sums of gold to him as a gift, and the more you give the bigger chance you have getting some fancy item or a few barbarian units as a gift in return instead of Acheron just devouring your unit.

I also like the idea of Acheron doing small raids, during which you could steal the treasure and have Acheron come after it, if it's just doable code-wise.

Oh, and hello there!
 
A simple addition might be to just give Acheron a new ability, Take Flight. It converts him into a bomber with a huge range for one turn, and he can destroy improvements, bombard cities, attack units, etc. You could even apply a damage cap so that he can't kill anyone if you want to keep him somewhat benign.
 
According to Xienwolf's manual steal does:
•80% Chance to steal an
Equipment Promotion from a
Rival Unit on the Tile or an
Equipment Building from a
Rival City on the Tile
•Declares war if unsuccessful
That's why it wouldn't cause war. I tried it with patch t so it should work.
 
Limiting Acheron to a 5 tile radius would pretty much be impossible. You could give him a Ranged attack with a range of 5 is you like, but in order to use it he would have to loose the held promotion. Then the only way to be sure he stays in the city is to make him DOMAIN_AIR, which would make him useless at actually defending the city.

How can this be impossible?

Are you saying the AI code isn't capable of making a unit move to a given tile?

Just each turn, pick a random spot within 5 tiles of the city's position. How can any serious AI function without that capability?

Or even, give him 5 movement, and force him to return home every other turn? Hyborem has a city defense AI, so I know it's not impossible to tell a unit to move to a city.
 
Better hoard comment above, well, maybe whoever ends up with a surplus of 1000 or 2000 gold first, ends up with Acheron beelining their capital. Poor Khazad, gunning for their "Overflowing" Dwarven Vaults, that's like catnip for dragons! Anyhow, lots of funny thoughts above, probably all modmod territory at that.

Well... Your lonely mountains are good Dragon bait...

(hobbit reference there, for those of you who missed it)
 
My biggest problem with Acheron was always the swarms of AI troops that camped around his city. I haven't played with him for a while due to that issue, and I was wondering if it still occurs.

I don't really know how to fix Acheron, other than to stop the swarms of AI troops if they are still occurring. I liked the idea of 'him' spawning drakes. I also think that an event tree triggered by his proximity would be pretty cool, but I imagine it would be pretty difficult to code.
 
How can this be impossible?

Are you saying the AI code isn't capable of making a unit move to a given tile?

Just each turn, pick a random spot within 5 tiles of the city's position. How can any serious AI function without that capability?

Or even, give him 5 movement, and force him to return home every other turn? Hyborem has a city defense AI, so I know it's not impossible to tell a unit to move to a city.

I'm not sure exactly how the AI works, but I don't think it is nearly as simple as you assume.

Also, I'm not sure you can call the Civ IV AI a serious AI.


A city defense AI does cannot force a unit to stay in a specific city, it just tells the AI to use it primarily in a defensive role. It may make them always move back to a city, but would not move it back to its city. The AI would sometimes want to move such a powerful defender to defend other cities.


I guess you could give Acheron a PyPerTurn function that makes him teleport back to the city with the Dragons Horde once per turn pretty easily though.
 
You could make Acheron's city become a seperate minor civ much like the independants in Rhye's. That way you could program him to wander, not actually capture any cities, then quickly return to the nearest friendly city.
 
That would be a very complicated change that would accomplish very little.

Also, how would you stop this minor civ from capturing other cities? I don't think that solution really addresses the problem at all.
 
Amusingly, the OP is the least productive person when it comes to contributing to the actual Acheron discussion, and yet still feels the need to throw needless jabs around. Oh no I'm a hypocrite! =p Some of these other ideas have been pretty nifty, but they still fall prey to being potentially game-breaking.

If he rages all over a 5x5 around his city, that could potentially include the only way out of your civilization, whereas now you can kind of quietly pray to Esus and try to sneak past him.

If he rages late game, and you're the goose, then you're pretty much cooked, even then, and then your epic struggle games get all sadface =(

The other issue is that if he rages after the first person to get Mithril-Working, or the first person to get X amount of gold surplus, people are going to start getting Mithril-Working up to 1 turn left, and researching other stuff until some other poor sap researches it first. Same deal with the gold surplus, except spending it all like a crazy person instead. Like someone else said, this also is a direct hindrance to the Khazad, who benefit from attempting to raise their gold at the early expense of research.

Too many of the ways to make Acheron 'interesting' aren't independent variables, unfortunately, and affect many other aspects of gameplay that would make a game unplayable. And that's usually fine because it happens early, but this would happen 40-80% through a game, and it's at that point that frustration starts to happen.

I think the simplest solution to this would just be to include something next to 'Raging Barbarians' that is a 'Raging Acheron' option. Check or uncheck. Checked removes his held promotion. Problem solved.
 
Actually it is rather trivial to control AI for specific units to act in a specific manner. Look for GIANT_SPIDER in the python files and you'll find there is a control which forbids the AI to use them unless a unit moves into their range of attack. Then their hands are untied and the AI is allowed to control them (which generally means it decides to attack).


For Acheron, you could quite easily have the function find where his Horde is (building/Unit/Promotion search, mark the tile when found) and then send him to that location to attack. If the location is controlled by the Barbarians though, you can have the code instead find the nearest hostile city and head toward it. To prevent the "ender of Civilizations" scenario, you would instruct him to destroy all improvements in the city radius before he is allowed to attack the city at all. Then you get a rampaging Dragon who is seeking to enhance his Horde, but ideally isn't completely wiping anyone out too terribly quickly (since he wastes time pillaging, but ideally spits a ton of fire at the city while thus occupied).

You could use the same python call to force him to cast his Fireball spell each and every turn, then just don't bother to control the Fireball yourself, the AI should handle that bit well enough.
 
Why not have something like:
A. Tell the AI to make him attack.
B. Give him a good bit of movement.
C. Have a command that warps him back to the location of his hoard at the end of each turn.
 
Give him the ability to make air raids on nearby cities/units. That would bring him back in the game and make him very interesting. Its a mechanic that exists allready, so its implementation should be simple.

Really, a big scary dragon should have more frigtening abilities than standing around being a culture block.
 
Then the only way to be sure he stays in the city is to make him DOMAIN_AIR, which would make him useless at actually defending the city.

If you went for the air bombard ability there would be an easy way around this.

Give him a "Take flight" ability that actually summons an aireal form. This form would then be able to bombard and then be destroyed at the end of the turn. Easypeasy.

Sorry for double posting...
 
I think MC made this suggestion before....

Give him an unlimited Bombard Range that way he will randomly "fly" over cities and do a bit of damage to the units inside. Its already in basic civ so it would be easy to implement, its only the graphics that would have to be reworked a bit. Once captured though he would have to loose that ability or it would be Over Powered.
 
Lots of good idea to improve acheron ( i never have him near me , so he was always a test for my late game hero)
I like the bomber acheron... but we need to add dwarven gyrocopters :lol:
 
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