Adolf Hitler

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Well, since I was the modder who added the Hitler Leaderhead, let me chime in.

Point 1: Someone asked what his traits where, and I do not think they were answered. Here are the specs.
Traits: Scientific/Charismatic (if you do not think they fit, it has been debated in the Leaderheads 2 pack). Fav. Civic: Fascist. No Fav. Religion. AI: Aggressive

Point 2: I added Hitler since Friaxis added two equally bad, if not worse leaders, Mao and Stalin. I also added Pol Pot (among other "evil" leaders, but none as bad as Pol Pot IMO), however, he does not arouse the same passionate responses that Hitler does.

Point 3: It is important that such mass-murderers and debated and their taboo demystified in order to prevent future atrocities from future mass-murderers. I continued this point further, but I found it too rambling to be of value, so I am choosing to omitted.
 
Well, since I was the modder who added the Hitler Leaderhead, let me chime in.

Point 1: Someone asked what his traits where, and I do not think they were answered. Here are the specs.
Traits: Scientific/Charismatic (if you do not think they fit, it has been debated in the Leaderheads 2 pack). Fav. Civic: Fascist. No Fav. Religion. AI: Aggressive

Point 2: I added Hitler since Friaxis added two equally bad, if not worse leaders, Mao and Stalin. I also added Pol Pot (among other "evil" leaders, but none as bad as Pol Pot IMO), however, he does not arouse the same passionate responses that Hitler does.

Point 3: It is important that such mass-murderers and debated and their taboo demystified in order to prevent future atrocities from future mass-murderers. I continued this point further, but I found it too rambling to be of value, so I am choosing to omitted.

:goodjob: Totally agree with you. By the way thank you for your leaderpack:)
 
No he was not stupid just wanted to point out that most of his ideology has been built up from the Zion protocols which are fake and therefore he absorbed ideas from this fake. And one can discuss if absorbing ideas without critical analysis is intelligent but he was not stupid you are right.

He made stupid errors, I agree. (Actually, it's rather fortunate. I shudder to think of the alternative.)

Well, since I was the modder who added the Hitler Leaderhead, let me chime in.

Point 1: Someone asked what his traits where, and I do not think they were answered. Here are the specs.
Traits: Scientific/Charismatic (if you do not think they fit, it has been debated in the Leaderheads 2 pack). Fav. Civic: Fascist. No Fav. Religion. AI: Aggressive

Point 2: I added Hitler since Friaxis added two equally bad, if not worse leaders, Mao and Stalin. I also added Pol Pot (among other "evil" leaders, but none as bad as Pol Pot IMO), however, he does not arouse the same passionate responses that Hitler does.

Point 3: It is important that such mass-murderers and debated and their taboo demystified in order to prevent future atrocities from future mass-murderers. I continued this point further, but I found it too rambling to be of value, so I am choosing to omitted.

I completely agree with your decisions, and am enjoying playing with your extra leaders.
 
1.) Japan forced it early, with Pearl Harbor. He really had no choice after that.
Not to take away from what you're saying, nor saying you're not aware of this fact; but, I just have to add that Roosevelt forced Japan really...

I can explain my statement upon request.
 
To all of you free speech fanatics: I think there is a reason why we don't walk naked in public, as we respect some other people would be disturbed. There is a reason why we shower: others don't like the smell (ok, we mostly don't, as well^^).

There is a reason why we outlaw nazism in Germany: it shall not be repeated.

Free speech, however can be misused to the "incitement of the people" which is, as well as the "denial of the Holocaust" an "element of a crime" in our german law.

This is a good thing, IMHO, historical and ethical. We can't allow coming populists to repeat the mistakes of the past. I can't understand why that doesn't get in the head of the rest of the world. Do you guys have to have your own fascist goverment and your own holocaust first?

Ever heard of

"I disagree with what you have to say but will fight to the death to protect your right to say it."

We must let even Neo-Nazi's have free speech, even if their plans are insanity. If you block them, it's only a small step to block the next group of dissenters; it's a slippery slope.

I agree, the tendency maybe there that prohibition expels. But you simply can't confuse one thing with another. And if you don't block them, there won't be any freedoms left, whatsoever, as they win. That they are able to win was shown in germany in the 30's. So, they had free speech to be antisemitic and stuff, they won democratic election, the financiers flocked to them as war=money, so there have your soup. Why can't that happen again? Can we really tolerate this visible to the naked eye?
You quoted:
"I disagree with what you have to say but will fight to the death to protect your right to say it."

Of course I know Voltaire, but let me quote from Rousseau's "Contract of Society":
"Insanty bears no right!"

Or in modern context: once you protect someones ability to do what he wants - as to destroy you (or your democratic right of free speech) - you're commiting a paradox suicide.

In society, even in USA I guess, it is forbidden to dishonour someone, telling bad things about him will bring you in prison, compelling and libel and slander are elements of crime (as long it is not a person of public interest)! So why should we tolerate someone who is against everything we stand for? If you tolerate the intolerant, you get gassed, perhaps. Thats a lesson you should have in mind, always!!! It contains historical perception. At least for some.

I don't think it's Hitler we are talking of, it is the things he stands for; to relativize the unimaginable crimes a once sophisticated people are capable of. It is good we have something that is not normalized. Its a steady reminder, what shall not be done again. Its helpfull to have awareness; awareness is created if something isn't handeld as run-of-the-mill but sensible and honourable in commemoration. That said, using Mass murderers for recreational purposes in general sure isn't nice for any of the victims. Would you be able to tell a holocaust survivor in the face: yesterday I played with Hitler and inquisitored the jews of my conquered cities, ha-ha?
Would you feel ashamed to do that? Why? Cause you cause pain? Why don't you cause pain yourself at home then? Because you can't show the empathy and you don't know about the backgrounds of the millions who died? When you look that survivor in the eye you might feel it BAM thats why you would feel ashamed. We should work to be able to feel it, I truely believe.
 
Not to take away from what you're saying, nor saying you're not aware of this fact; but, I just have to add that Roosevelt forced Japan really...

I can explain my statement upon request.

I know where you are coming from and agree (personally, I would go further and say that Roosevelt intentionally provoked Japan into declaring war on the US, but probably did not expect it would be as deadly as Pearl Harbor). I would add that Japan's unfair treatment at Versailles (The Central Powers were not the only ones shafted) also had an impact on why they invaded China and resulted in Roosevelt's actions against Japan. I know blame can go on further back than Versailles, but that was an "epic fail" moment in history. In fact, Versailles is one of the key reasons, if not the key reason, that Hitler was able to seize power the way he did and able to exercise it the way he did.
 
BAHHAHHHAhhahahah! Hitler was not a genius, he was charismatic and a great speaker. And don't forget the most important factor that needs to be considered as always. A certain "leader of the peoples" is not almighty and powerful, he is just human after all , it takes a coordinated team of people to bring him in power, lots of resources to gather even more people for his support. All political icons are just puppets being pulled by strings from behind the curtain by puppet masters. They design who he is what his beliefs are, he just plays out his part according to the program "on the political stage". Hitler had lots of financing to get him lots of power, especially from western banks and rich industrialists (Bush family sponsored him as well, read up who was Samuel Prescott Bush and his part in sponsoring the nazi war machine) and when his party had enough power, they made sure to keep it at all cost. Same thing happened in russia.

A dictator's worst fear is a self conscience people that can rise up against them at any moment. That's why when they make it to significant power they make it their first priority to subdue the "masses", usually be extremist terrorism and intimidation.
 
I know where you are coming from and agree (personally, I would go further and say that Roosevelt intentionally provoked Japan into declaring war on the US, but probably did not expect it would be as deadly as Pearl Harbor). I would add that Japan's unfair treatment at Versailles (The Central Powers were not the only ones shafted) also had an impact on why they invaded China and resulted in Roosevelt's actions against Japan. I know blame can go on further back than Versailles, but that was an "epic fail" moment in history. In fact, Versailles is one of the key reasons, if not the key reason, that Hitler was able to seize power the way he did and able to exercise it the way he did.
Agree, both world wars were so unnecessary.

@DRJ Any one who has the audacity deny the Holocaust is crazy, like that manic in Iran.
 
I agree with cr0ws, Hitler was not a genius. But he was intelligent, one of the best orators in history, and mad as a loon.

He made an incredible number of mistakes in the war. Here are just a few as I see it.

1. Trying to use the ME-262 as a fast strike bomber instead of an interceptor.

2. Attacking Russia. Americans like to say that "we won the war" but it is every bit as arguable that the T-34 won the war. It was the best tank ever made if you consider the date and circumstances under which it was built.

3. Altering the attacks on Britain from the RAF to London. Very VERY bad move to attack a general populace, particularly a populace that has a history of proud combat.

4. Since he DID #3, and he was willing to gas Jews, he should have loaded the V2s with chemical warheads. Chemical weapons are absolutely terrifying.

5. Ever allying himself with Japan. The nations were simply too far apart to be of any use to each other at all, and you don't ally with a nation if you can't gain advantage in doing so.

6. Not having Mussolini assassinated and replaced with a competent general.

7. Building a Baltic fleet. He should have just built shore batteries with greater range than any battleship of the day, and concentrated his efforts on U-boats and controlling the Mediterranean. With a competent leader in Italy that would have meant more.

8. Meddling in affairs military. You delegate to your generals. Rommel was the best general of the war, in my humble opinion, and if given the means was a brutally competent opponent.

9. Concentrate on E=mc2. Einstein gave his paper to the world. There had to be German physicists who knew the significance. A nuke offshore of London and the war is over because Britain would likely have surrendered immediately.

10. Too many obtuse weapon systems. The King Tiger, for example. The Tiger tank, while overly complicated, was an awesome weapon. The King Tiger was a waste of resources and turned out to be a very limited tank because it was too heavy for almost all terrain in the areas of deployment.

11. Don't shove a huge number of able bodied troops into ovens and chemical showers. German Jews would probably have been just as patriotic as any other German. If you're going to use racism as a motivator for your evil plans, don't waste manpower inside your country. Pick some other country and blame it all on them. After the WWI treaty that Germany was forced to sign, they had plenty of people to blame.


Hitler was not a genius, but the Germans most certainly are among the brightest collection of humans you'll find. German engineering in WWII was far superior to the likes of the Sherman tank. The irony is that if America deployed the Sherman in today's political climate, the public would immediately demand we withdraw our forces. It took 4 Shermans, sometimes more, to get the upper hand on a Tiger. We made a lot more Shermans, but how many GIs lost their lives in that piece of crap? The Russians made the T-34 which was equally simple to design and produce, but was incredibly superior.

I rant. I apologize. Hitler, were he a genius, could easily have won WWII for the Germans. He'd have fielded superior tanks in larger numbers, had more FW-120s and ME-262s in the air, worked on a nuke for the V2, and NEVER followed the path of disaster that is to invade Russia.

It is good that he's an add-on mod, however.

I also agree that Pol Pot was probably the worst of the worst, although Mao was damn bad too. I personally am not sure how those murder trains get rolling.
 
I also agree that Pol Pot was probably the worst of the worst, although Mao was damn bad too. I personally am not sure how those murder trains get rolling.
I agree with this. Pol Pot was the worst of the worst. He started by taking over the medical system.
 
I agree with cr0ws, Hitler was not a genius. But he was intelligent, one of the best orators in history, and mad as a loon.

He made an incredible number of mistakes in the war. Here are just a few as I see it.

1. Trying to use the ME-262 as a fast strike bomber instead of an interceptor.

2. Attacking Russia. Americans like to say that "we won the war" but it is every bit as arguable that the T-34 won the war. It was the best tank ever made if you consider the date and circumstances under which it was built.

3. Altering the attacks on Britain from the RAF to London. Very VERY bad move to attack a general populace, particularly a populace that has a history of proud combat.

4. Since he DID #3, and he was willing to gas Jews, he should have loaded the V2s with chemical warheads. Chemical weapons are absolutely terrifying.

5. Ever allying himself with Japan. The nations were simply too far apart to be of any use to each other at all, and you don't ally with a nation if you can't gain advantage in doing so.

6. Not having Mussolini assassinated and replaced with a competent general.

7. Building a Baltic fleet. He should have just built shore batteries with greater range than any battleship of the day, and concentrated his efforts on U-boats and controlling the Mediterranean. With a competent leader in Italy that would have meant more.

8. Meddling in affairs military. You delegate to your generals. Rommel was the best general of the war, in my humble opinion, and if given the means was a brutally competent opponent.

9. Concentrate on E=mc2. Einstein gave his paper to the world. There had to be German physicists who knew the significance. A nuke offshore of London and the war is over because Britain would likely have surrendered immediately.

10. Too many obtuse weapon systems. The King Tiger, for example. The Tiger tank, while overly complicated, was an awesome weapon. The King Tiger was a waste of resources and turned out to be a very limited tank because it was too heavy for almost all terrain in the areas of deployment.

11. Don't shove a huge number of able bodied troops into ovens and chemical showers. German Jews would probably have been just as patriotic as any other German. If you're going to use racism as a motivator for your evil plans, don't waste manpower inside your country. Pick some other country and blame it all on them. After the WWI treaty that Germany was forced to sign, they had plenty of people to blame.


Hitler was not a genius, but the Germans most certainly are among the brightest collection of humans you'll find. German engineering in WWII was far superior to the likes of the Sherman tank. The irony is that if America deployed the Sherman in today's political climate, the public would immediately demand we withdraw our forces. It took 4 Shermans, sometimes more, to get the upper hand on a Tiger. We made a lot more Shermans, but how many GIs lost their lives in that piece of crap? The Russians made the T-34 which was equally simple to design and produce, but was incredibly superior.

I rant. I apologize. Hitler, were he a genius, could easily have won WWII for the Germans. He'd have fielded superior tanks in larger numbers, had more FW-120s and ME-262s in the air, worked on a nuke for the V2, and NEVER followed the path of disaster that is to invade Russia.

It is good that he's an add-on mod, however.

I also agree that Pol Pot was probably the worst of the worst, although Mao was damn bad too. I personally am not sure how those murder trains get rolling.

Gimme, gimme, gimme! Your recommended history books reading please!

A very brilliant analysis!
 
Holy Cow. Right when I thought I had wrapped this thread up. Well, here goes for the longest post of mine ever. Let's hope I don't hit the Char limit.

Not to take away from what you're saying, nor saying you're not aware of this fact; but, I just have to add that Roosevelt forced Japan really...

I can explain my statement upon request.

I think it's more the other way around. Japan forced Roosevelt to take firmer and firmer stances with them, cutting off oil, and supplies.

To all of you free speech fanatics: I think there is a reason why we don't walk naked in public, as we respect some other people would be disturbed. There is a reason why we shower: others don't like the smell (ok, we mostly don't, as well^^).
The right to privacy > Free Speech.
There is a reason why we outlaw nazism in Germany: it shall not be repeated.
Sure it could. I'll call it "Mongol-ism", create a new symbol, and be on my way. Banning a name can't stop me.

Free speech, however can be misused to the "incitement of the people" which is, as well as the "denial of the Holocaust" an "element of a crime" in our german law.
Heck, Incitement of a people is a good thing. I suppose Europeans wouldn't understand, never having to throw off colonial bonds. Thomas Paine's Common Sense, incited Americans to actively boycott the British, and really ramped up the war effort. German Propaganda by the US Gov in WWII got the gov't it's needed war bonds, tons of recruits, and massive armies.
This is a good thing, IMHO, historical and ethical.
History isn't an excuse for actions. Genocide is historical, but still atrocious.
We can't allow coming populists to repeat the mistakes of the past. I can't understand why that doesn't get in the head of the rest of the world. Do you guys have to have your own fascist goverment and your own holocaust first?
America already had it's tyrants. They were the British Kings. We too made a few mistakes, trying to make sure we never had one with the Articles of Confederation, that made such a weak government, that they couldn't do anything. (Rhode Island purposely was contrarian, since you needed a unified vote to get anything done under the Articles...)

That they are able to win was shown in germany in the 30's. So, they had free speech to be antisemitic and stuff, they won democratic election, the financiers flocked to them as war=money, so there have your soup. Why can't that happen again? Can we really tolerate this visible to the naked eye?
We have a constitution that would forbid the people from making a President into a true tyrant.
You quoted:
"I disagree with what you have to say but will fight to the death to protect your right to say it."

Of course I know Voltaire, but let me quote from Rousseau's "Contract of Society":
"Insanty bears no right!"
Ahh Voltaire. A great mind. (See my sig, for lol's).

In a Democracy, even the insane have a vote. Luckily, there vote counts just as much as the environmentalists, hippies, execs, union thugs, etc...
Or in modern context: once you protect someones ability to do what he wants - as to destroy you (or your democratic right of free speech) - you're commiting a paradox suicide.
So? I'd rather have the moral high ground. Plus, if you strip someone else's rights away, you've become no better than they. Nay, worse, because they never stripped your rights away, but you did it to them.
In society, even in USA I guess, it is forbidden to dishonour someone, telling bad things about him will bring you in prison, compelling and libel and slander are elements of crime (as long it is not a person of public interest)! So why should we tolerate someone who is against everything we stand for? If you tolerate the intolerant, you get gassed, perhaps.
It may be a crime, but it's so hard to punish, that it rarely is. It's very hard to objectify the cost of libel, and often, the victim will not prosecute.

Regardless, there is a difference between having an opinion and sharing it and slandering. With an opinion, you only think something is true. With slander, you try and convince others that it IS true.
I don't think it's Hitler we are talking of, it is the things he stands for; to relativize the unimaginable crimes a once sophisticated people are capable of. It is good we have something that is not normalized. Its a steady reminder, what shall not be done again. Its helpfull to have awareness; awareness is created if something isn't handeld as run-of-the-mill but sensible and honourable in commemoration. That said, using Mass murderers for recreational purposes in general sure isn't nice for any of the victims. Would you be able to tell a holocaust survivor in the face: yesterday I played with Hitler and inquisitored the jews of my conquered cities, ha-ha?
Would you feel ashamed to do that? Why? Cause you cause pain? Why don't you cause pain yourself at home then? Because you can't show the empathy and you don't know about the backgrounds of the millions who died? When you look that survivor in the eye you might feel it BAM thats why you would feel ashamed. We should work to be able to feel it, I truely believe.
You seem incredibly worried that you will have another Hitler. Just stopping people from knowing or speaking freely about Hitler won't stop the next insane tyrant. Tyrants don't build off one another. They reinvent a new brand of evil each time.

I know where you are coming from and agree (personally, I would go further and say that Roosevelt intentionally provoked Japan into declaring war on the US, but probably did not expect it would be as deadly as Pearl Harbor). I would add that Japan's unfair treatment at Versailles (The Central Powers were not the only ones shafted) also had an impact on why they invaded China and resulted in Roosevelt's actions against Japan. I know blame can go on further back than Versailles, but that was an "epic fail" moment in history. In fact, Versailles is one of the key reasons, if not the key reason, that Hitler was able to seize power the way he did and able to exercise it the way he did.

Versailles was the stupidest treaty ever... The Allies in effect caused WWII.

Want to know who caused WWI? Bankers... Go figure.

BAHHAHHHAhhahahah!

Nice evil laugh. It fits the mood.
Hitler was not a genius, he was charismatic and a great speaker.
He wasn't a genius in the Einstien-sense of the word, but he still was extremely smart. Charisma helped too.
And don't forget the most important factor that needs to be considered as always. A certain "leader of the peoples" is not almighty and powerful, he is just human after all , it takes a coordinated team of people to bring him in power, lots of resources to gather even more people for his support.
Reminds me of the US's Current president.
All political icons are just puppets being pulled by strings from behind the curtain by puppet masters. They design who he is what his beliefs are, he just plays out his part according to the program "on the political stage". Hitler had lots of financing to get him lots of power, especially from western banks and rich industrialists (Bush family sponsored him as well, read up who was Samuel Prescott Bush and his part in sponsoring the nazi war machine) and when his party had enough power, they made sure to keep it at all cost. Same thing happened in russia.
True. If I remember correctly, Andrew Carnigae was a big Anti-Semitic.
A dictator's worst fear is a self conscience people that can rise up against them at any moment. That's why when they make it to significant power they make it their first priority to subdue the "masses", usually be extremist terrorism and intimidation.
True.

Agree, both world wars were so unnecessary.

@DRJ Any one who has the audacity deny the Holocaust is crazy, like that manic in Iran.

I know. Tragedies.

I agree with cr0ws, Hitler was not a genius. But he was intelligent, one of the best orators in history, and mad as a loon.

Come on now, be fair to the loons.
He made an incredible number of mistakes in the war. Here are just a few as I see it.

1. Trying to use the ME-262 as a fast strike bomber instead of an interceptor.

2. Attacking Russia. Americans like to say that "we won the war" but it is every bit as arguable that the T-34 won the war. It was the best tank ever made if you consider the date and circumstances under which it was built.

3. Altering the attacks on Britain from the RAF to London. Very VERY bad move to attack a general populace, particularly a populace that has a history of proud combat.

4. Since he DID #3, and he was willing to gas Jews, he should have loaded the V2s with chemical warheads. Chemical weapons are absolutely terrifying.

5. Ever allying himself with Japan. The nations were simply too far apart to be of any use to each other at all, and you don't ally with a nation if you can't gain advantage in doing so.

6. Not having Mussolini assassinated and replaced with a competent general.

7. Building a Baltic fleet. He should have just built shore batteries with greater range than any battleship of the day, and concentrated his efforts on U-boats and controlling the Mediterranean. With a competent leader in Italy that would have meant more.

8. Meddling in affairs military. You delegate to your generals. Rommel was the best general of the war, in my humble opinion, and if given the means was a brutally competent opponent.

9. Concentrate on E=mc2. Einstein gave his paper to the world. There had to be German physicists who knew the significance. A nuke offshore of London and the war is over because Britain would likely have surrendered immediately.

10. Too many obtuse weapon systems. The King Tiger, for example. The Tiger tank, while overly complicated, was an awesome weapon. The King Tiger was a waste of resources and turned out to be a very limited tank because it was too heavy for almost all terrain in the areas of deployment.

11. Don't shove a huge number of able bodied troops into ovens and chemical showers. German Jews would probably have been just as patriotic as any other German. If you're going to use racism as a motivator for your evil plans, don't waste manpower inside your country. Pick some other country and blame it all on them. After the WWI treaty that Germany was forced to sign, they had plenty of people to blame.
Interesting, I did not know all of these. Mussilini made good speeches, but he was a terrible leader. The Italian army was pretty irrelevant for much of the war.

However, I think there should be one more for the list:

Falling for the D-Day ruse, and putting the bulk of his troops at the wrong location.

Hitler was not a genius, but the Germans most certainly are among the brightest collection of humans you'll find. German engineering in WWII was far superior to the likes of the Sherman tank. The irony is that if America deployed the Sherman in today's political climate, the public would immediately demand we withdraw our forces. It took 4 Shermans, sometimes more, to get the upper hand on a Tiger. We made a lot more Shermans, but how many GIs lost their lives in that piece of crap? The Russians made the T-34 which was equally simple to design and produce, but was incredibly superior.

I rant. I apologize. Hitler, were he a genius, could easily have won WWII for the Germans. He'd have fielded superior tanks in larger numbers, had more FW-120s and ME-262s in the air, worked on a nuke for the V2, and NEVER followed the path of disaster that is to invade Russia.
I agree with this. Pol Pot was the worst of the worst. He started by taking over the medical system.

Interesting. That's what my government is doing now. :eek:

Gimme, gimme, gimme! Your recommended history books reading please!

A very brilliant analysis!

Yes, I would love to hear where you learned this all. I'm a history buff as well.

Yes it very brilliant analysis.:)

I third that.
 
Interesting. That's what my government is doing now.
Excatly! Of course if we go into this it could make this thread 10 pages longer.:lol:
Falling for the D-Day ruse, and putting the bulk of his troops at the wrong location.
That was a brilliant move by the allies.:D
 
Excatly! Of course if we go into this it could make this thread 10 pages longer.:lol:

Lets. This is a fairly isolated sub-forum. It's nice to have such activity. Also, this topic seems to be creating new users. That's always a good thing.

Nationalizing Medicine is merely the first among many steps to Tyranny. Many Democrats use the excuse that the government already pays for a large chunk of medical care, and that this change wouldn't bring any real significant change to the medical industry. Most of the poor and elderly already get their health care from the Government anyway.

Simply by substituting medical care to human sacrifices and we suddenly have a very humorous defense:

Many Democrats use the excuse that the government already pays for a large chunk of human sacrifices, and that this change wouldn't bring any real significant change to the human sacrifice indsutry. Most of the poor and elderly get their human sacrifices from the Government anyway.

:lol:

Sure, that may be a somewhat brutal example, but it's true.
 
Lets. This is a fairly isolated sub-forum. It's nice to have such activity. Also, this topic seems to be creating new users. That's always a good thing.

Nationalizing Medicine is merely the first among many steps to Tyranny. Many Democrats use the excuse that the government already pays for a large chunk of medical care, and that this change wouldn't bring any real significant change to the medical industry. Most of the poor and elderly already get their health care from the Government anyway.

Simply by substituting medical care to human sacrifices and we suddenly have a very humorous defense:

Many Democrats use the excuse that the government already pays for a large chunk of human sacrifices, and that this change wouldn't bring any real significant change to the human sacrifice indsutry. Most of the poor and elderly get their human sacrifices from the Government anyway.

:lol:

Sure, that may be a somewhat brutal example, but it's true.

:lol::lol:So true. If anyone wants to know what government medicine will be like just look at the Swine flu vaccine delay. If it was deadly a lot of us would all be dead by now. You can also look at Cuba.:cringe: At least it seams like this fourm is much more civilized then the OT fourm.;)
 
At least it seams like this fourm is much more civilized then the OT fourm.;)


Amen. I must really thank DRJ, and anyone else I tend to disagree with for being so civil with all of us. I can be so bothersome some of the time. ;)
 
Brilliant analysis? You guys have no idea about history... ;-)
Let me take this apart, playing the advocatus diaboli of my beloved nemesis:

I agree with cr0ws, Hitler was not a genius. But he was intelligent, one of the best orators in history, and mad as a loon.

He made an incredible number of mistakes in the war. Here are just a few as I see it.

1. Trying to use the ME-262 as a fast strike bomber instead of an interceptor.

Don't know technical stuff that well... had he other options for fast strike bombers?

2. Attacking Russia. Americans like to say that "we won the war" but it is every bit as arguable that the T-34 won the war. It was the best tank ever made if you consider the date and circumstances under which it was built.


He attacked russia as he knew sooner or later russia would join the war as britain wouldn't make peace after 1940s lost battle of britain. He underestimated american help for russia, though - as he overestimated the power of his submarines, which was much higher in 1940 than in the later years (Enigma...), so more convoys got thru to Murmansk, which resulted in more T-34, ultimately.

3. Altering the attacks on Britain from the RAF to London. Very VERY bad move to attack a general populace, particularly a populace that has a history of proud combat.


The move went "well" in Guernica, Rotterdam, his aim was constant terror and frustration. To go down and sleep in the tube every night certainly was no fun for the civil "proud combatants", neither was it helping the "proud combatants" sitting in the bunkers in german cities during the firestorms, to raise morale.

4. Since he DID #3, and he was willing to gas Jews, he should have loaded the V2s with chemical warheads. Chemical weapons are absolutely terrifying.

Yes, first he thought britain would want a peace after france was beaten. So he willingly gave the exepiditionary corps some time to escape in Dunkirk, as a sign of goodwill, at least thats what some historians say. Regarding the racist ideology, anglo-saxons were arian, so they were more treated with honor than slavs. Total war meant to him total war of genes---he just wanted to make sure they didn't mix so superiority was consolidated. Maybe in that sense we can understand his descision not to gas england.

5. Ever allying himself with Japan. The nations were simply too far apart to be of any use to each other at all, and you don't ally with a nation if you can't gain advantage in doing so.

America was in the hand of the "international jewish high finance" as he thought, Japan wasn't. He knew sooner or later he would need to distract America. Japan was a good candidate for that: they posed no thread to germany, had an equally fascist attitude and helped to distract ressources which otherwise would have been against him.

6. Not having Mussolini assassinated and replaced with a competent general.

I disagree: Mussolini was essential as a leader figure. So he should he have controlled him better, then Mussolini would have done what the competent general would have told him to...


7. Building a Baltic fleet. He should have just built shore batteries with greater range than any battleship of the day, and concentrated his efforts on U-boats and controlling the Mediterranean. With a competent leader in Italy that would have meant more.


The "baltic fleet" you refer to, wasn't it in fact stationed in the Skagerrak most of the time, preventing invasions of occupied Norway?

As in the Mediterranean, the British had such superiority in ships, tonnage and fuel, it was clearly impossible to win there without gibraltar, cyprus, malta and egypt. The italian fleet was in no state to fight, during no point in the war. I don't think they lacked a leader alone but rather equipment, morale, training, motivation (he was a very bad leader, though!).


8. Meddling in affairs military. You delegate to your generals. Rommel was the best general of the war, in my humble opinion, and if given the means was a brutally competent opponent.


Rommel lost as the fuel transports didn't reach Africa due to allied superiority of mediterranean, later he had problems to defend Normandy as the command structure wasn't in his favor cause Hitler distrusted him.

But you are right, Hitler often meddled in the military descisions, to
-fight ideologically
-make staff changes
-show his unpredictability


9. Concentrate on E=mc2. Einstein gave his paper to the world. There had to be German physicists who knew the significance. A nuke offshore of London and the war is over because Britain would likely have surrendered immediately.


"Hard" water was produced in Norway, which is needed to enrich uranium/plutonium. They were sabotaged, I think. He concentrated on different "Super-Weapons" then.


10. Too many obtuse weapon systems. The King Tiger, for example. The Tiger tank, while overly complicated, was an awesome weapon. The King Tiger was a waste of resources and turned out to be a very limited tank because it was too heavy for almost all terrain in the areas of deployment.


Prestige project. It was not produced very often, but under the right conditions it blew 10 shermans easily in a row--- useless though, as the allies had hundreds of them, the germans didn't.


11. Don't shove a huge number of able bodied troops into ovens and chemical showers. German Jews would probably have been just as patriotic as any other German. If you're going to use racism as a motivator for your evil plans, don't waste manpower inside your country. Pick some other country and blame it all on them. After the WWI treaty that Germany was forced to sign, they had plenty of people to blame.


And they did! But the others ("high finance Jews sitting in London and New York") were too strong at that moment, so the enemy within (Levy shoemaker from around the corner) was welcome, as weaker! It's the tendency of people, if they get beaten to beat someone weaker and thats just what Hitler instrumentalized. By breaking the bond of civil codes inside germanies people he gained control over the power to redefine those--

Hitler, were he a genius, could easily have won WWII for the Germans.

By no means he could have beat the allies- ever;

he was forced to wage war by '39 as his deficits for re-militarizing germany where so high, germany would have gone bancrot the very next year. It's like in civ: he had to pillage to pay his maintance.


He'd have fielded superior tanks in larger numbers,

When the war began he had mostly old tanks, and later when the new series were in place the enemy had much more (T34) against him.


had more FW-120s and ME-262s in the air,

Yes, but the british had the shorter distances for their defense and thus more strategic coordinational options to win the battle of britain, even with lesser planes.


worked on a nuke for the V2,


he had neither the time nor the res

and NEVER followed the path of disaster that is to invade Russia.

don't agree, see above.

It is good that he's an add-on mod, however.

strongly disagree but you know that already^^


I also agree that Pol Pot was probably the worst of the worst, although Mao was damn bad too. I personally am not sure how those murder trains get rolling.

Poor childhood, lust for power, insanity, ideology, and -last but not least- people like grandpa Bush, protecting stupid $hitheads like Hitler for making money with crisis/war and/or need to install an enemy therefore--




And for a good nights sleep:

Fascism isn't an opinion, it's a crime!!!
 
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