Affordable Care Act

[Gori the Grey]

So you're saying there's still a chance that the Republicans might vote for a bill that has a 17% public approval?

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, or fill the wall up with the Grandold dead.

 

[uppi]

It's fairly straightforward to scrub identifying information from patient records.

It is not straightforward to strip identifying information from any dataset without making it useless.

 

[metalhead]

Right, but the amount of data needed to verify a referral or treatment recommendation is far lower than what it would be for scientific or diagnostic purposes. Insurers can access such info now, if I'm not mistaken, in case they want to deny coverage for something.

Payers already present a special case in terms of HIPAA, because HIPAA prevents disclosure even that a person is being treated for a specific condition to a third party, but insurers of course see and store that information.

 

[El_Machinae]

Like I said, I waffle back and forth. A small co-pay is an incredibly wonky incentive. It's not really in a linear trend with 'free' and 'not small'. My suspicion is that 'free' would be cheaper in the longrun, but I don't really see how to run that experiment. It's screaming for an experiment, though.

 

[Sommerswerd]

You are saying that ACA is the only reason anyone voted for President Obama. That is sadly narrowminded.

ACA was and is unpopular. That is a fact. Own it.

J

First of all, "unpopular" with who?

Second, Meh, the RCP trends seem to disagree with you. ACA/Obamacare is in the black in terms of popularity nowadays and is steadily becoming more popular. As I have already acknowledged, it was unpopular when it was being passed and for some time thereafter, but its time for Obamacare opponents to acknowledge that the circumstances have changed.

 

[metalhead]

Why bother? Kellyanne will just move the goalposts yet again, with some ridiculous contortion as to how the same polling data he relied on before doesn't actually say exactly what any reasonable person can see with their own eyes that it says.

Moderator Action: This is name-calling in an RD thread. Cut out the "Kellyanne" stuff from now on. - Bootstoots
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Azem.Ocram]

If the replacement to the ACA is made to appeal to the ultraconservative "freedom house" you can bet your bottom dollar on moderate Republicans siding with Democrats. Red state Democrats are nearly identical to Blue state Republicans.

 

[onejayhawk]

First of all, "unpopular" with who?

Second, Meh, the RCP trends seem to disagree with you. ACA/Obamacare is in the black in terms of popularity nowadays and is steadily becoming more popular. As I have already acknowledged, it was unpopular when it was being passed and for some time thereafter, but its time for Obamacare opponents to acknowledge that the circumstances have changed.

This is a valid point. While it is unpopular now, it was considerably more unpopular a year ago. This is the first time it is above 50%. Note how there is a major shift coinciding with the election.

Thanks for the link. I did not realize that RCP had a rolling average. How do you get to it through the menus?

J

 

[Timsup2nothin]

This is a valid point. While it is unpopular now, it was considerably more unpopular a year ago. This is the first time it is above 50%. Note how there is a major shift coinciding with the election.

Thanks for the link. I did not realize that RCP had a rolling average. How do you get to it through the menus?

J

Note that I haven't looked at this data yet, but at first blush I find the "it isn't popular now" and the "this is the first time over 50%" to seem completely contradictory. Given the source the obvious dissonance doesn't surprise me much.

 

[El_Machinae]

I like this one better, but maybe because I am more familiar with the source.
http://kff.org/interactive/kaiser-health-tracking-poll-the-publics-views-on-the-aca/#?response=Favorable--Unfavorable--Don't%20Know&aRange=all

That said, I don't think it's unfair to say that something polling near 50% is 'unpopular'. I mean, if I were ordering pizza, and half the office said they didn't like it, I'd say I should have done something different. Disagreeing with something like that seems to be a waste of time.

There are other policies that are vastly more popular. I understand that it's a partisan issue, but I don't generally support the 50%+1 when it comes to governance as an acceptable standard.

 

[Lexicus]

That said, I don't think it's unfair to say that something polling near 50% is 'unpopular'.

How many of those people disagree with it due to outright lies told by the Republican Party and right-wing media?

 

[El_Machinae]

Does it matter? How many of those who like it also misunderstand much of it?

You can project an ignorance factor into unpopularity, in order to dismiss their opinion, but it still remains that it's unpopular.

People are seriously misinformed about, say, social security. But it's popular.

 

[Lexicus]

Does it matter?

Seems like it should, but it probably doesn't, no.

You can project an ignorance factor into unpopularity, in order to dismiss their opinion, but it still remains that it's unpopular.

And as I already pointed out harping on its unpopularity is utterly irrelevant given the even greater unpopularity of any realistic alternative right now.

 

[metalhead]

That said, I don't think it's unfair to say that something polling near 50% is 'unpopular'. I mean, if I were ordering pizza, and half the office said they didn't like it, I'd say I should have done something different. Disagreeing with something like that seems to be a waste of time.

There are other policies that are vastly more popular. I understand that it's a partisan issue, but I don't generally support the 50%+1 when it comes to governance as an acceptable standard.

And as I already pointed out harping on its unpopularity is utterly irrelevant given the even greater unpopularity of any realistic alternative right now.

This is difficult to parse out, beyond simple polling data. The alternative on the table (ACHA, which I guess is actually off the table now) is FAR less popular. Polling on single payer is mixed was well. Gallup puts support for it in the high 50s, but other polling outlets report overall support for it under 50%, and that support sometimes dips far below 50%.

In other words, we are far from any kind of popular consensus on health care. It's pretty disingenuous to say "the ACA is unpopular," because it's as well regarded a system as any which have been put on the table. Of course, the goalposts were moved to "popular" from "majority support" once it was pointed out that there are several measures of majority support for the ACA, but that was of course to be expected from our resident Kellyanne.

 

[onejayhawk]

This is difficult to parse out, beyond simple polling data. The alternative on the table (ACHA, which I guess is actually off the table now) is FAR less popular. Polling on single payer is mixed was well. Gallup puts support for it in the high 50s, but other polling outlets report overall support for it under 50%, and that support sometimes dips far below 50%.

In other words, we are far from any kind of popular consensus on health care. It's pretty disingenuous to say "the ACA is unpopular," because it's as well regarded a system as any which have been put on the table. Of course, the goalposts were moved to "popular" from "majority support" once it was pointed out that there are several measures of majority support for the ACA, but that was of course to be expected from our resident Kellyanne.

This is true. ACA is unpopular, but it is at least close. The replacement bill was very unpopular. This is why there is a movement, to which Trump alluded, saying that we need to let the ACA actually break down before trying to repair it.

J

 

[Timsup2nothin]

This is true. ACA is unpopular, but it is at least close. The replacement bill was very unpopular. This is why there is a movement, to which Trump alluded, saying that we need to let the ACA actually break down before trying to repair it.

J

More like make it break down, as has been the Republican goal since inception, right?

 

[Broken_Erika]

Make it break down, totally repeal it and then bury the whole debate and go back to the way things were before.

 

[onejayhawk]

Make it break down, totally repeal it and then bury the whole debate and go back to the way things were before.

If only we could. From that point it would not have taken much to make a major improvement. Add interstate and national availability, portability and a catastrophic plan and the situation would be enormously better than this mess.

No one has to "make it break down." The mandated coverage was going to break everything as it was. It will be slower with a sane head (Secretary Price), but the crack up was coming regardless of who was in charge.

J

 

[Lexicus]

It will be slower with a sane head in charge

Just out of...ah...morbid curiosity, do you have Trump in mind when you say "sane head"?

 

[onejayhawk]

Just out of...ah...morbid curiosity, do you have Trump in mind when you say "sane head"?

Tom Price

The Secretary of Health and Human Services is effectively the czar of ACA.

J