AG13 - OCC Demigod

[Gyathaar]

(did we make peace?)

Let's get the saltpeter if possible, then we can win the game!

Yes, had to make peace to get the 4th town (captured 2)

We are still at war with Hittites,and they have salt too.. however we cant buy salt from Persia yet for another 5 tuwns I think, because they have a trade embargo vs us

Neither persia (they took the extra coal from incas) or sumeria has connected their 2nd coal yet.

 

[Gyathaar]

1150AD, turn 0:
Switch build from rifle, move citizens around to make 24 shields per turn and more gold.. but it has no effect of number of turns left to electrisity, but will most likely allow to drop research a notch later.

IBT:
Summeria kills persian cav
persia kills summerian rifle

1160AD, turn 1:
incas has a worker for sale, give them WM and 110gold for it

IBT:
summeria and incas sign peace
summeria kills summerian rifle..
Hittites and persia signs trade embargo vs us.. that will make buying salt a bit harder..
hittites and persia ally vs inca
Persia kills summerian rifle and longbow

summeria start JS Bachs

1170AD, turn 2:
redline persian rifle, then kill it and yellow cav with sipati
can lower sci to 80%

IBT:
Persia and hittites ally vs us.. hmm..
persia loose 2 cavs, summeria a longbow and a rifle

knight -> knight

1180AD, turn 3:
hmm.. no enemy units in range.. so I use 2 sipati to pillage the fort and road on the choke

we are making negative gpt.. did hittites declaing on us broke the gold and ivory deal from incas..?
no.. we still have a valid trade route.. and now i see hittites captured the incan town with the ivory, so that broke the deal..
in addition to this Persia captured Oilantayambo in the same turn.. looks like incas are in trouble.

IBT:
persia moves a cav onto a grassland tile inside our territory

1190AD, turn 4:
redline the cav, then kill it with sipati (no loss of hp)
drop sci to 70%

IBT:
2 more persian cavs move into killzone

1200AD, turn 5:
electrisy comes in, set to replaceable parts.. 90% sci is -39gpt in 12 turns.. I decide to set it at 70% for 15 turns with -1gpt so we have a money researve invce we get a chance to do an upgrade turn.

redline and kill the 2 persian cavs

IBT:
Persia sends another cav to be turned into sausages

knight -> knight

1210AD, turn 6:
Persia got industrialization...
redline and kill the cav

IBT:
another persian cav arrives

1220AD, turn 7:
kill the cav

IBT:
Incas will no longer pay is 26gpt for alliance vs persia.. I dont renew it

1230AD, turn 8:
I start to move stack of units towards nearest persian town

IBT:
knight -> knight

1240AD, turn 9:
keep moving towards Bactra.. cant barely squeeze though all the sumerian units..

IBT:
Get attacked by hittite cav in persian lands.. we take no damage and the cav retreats

sumerians and persians dish it out

1250AD, turn 10:
kill the redlined cav

IBT:
persian and summerian units fight next to our stacks

1255AD, turn 11:
units finally in place to attack next turn

IBT:
Hittites want peace for steam..

knight -> knight

1260AD, turn 12:
time to attack...

Bactra is defended by a constript and a vetrifle.. dont even need all cannons to redline them..

kill the constript with a rifle
kill the vet with the 2nd rifle (keep the sipati and knights in reserve incase I have to attack another town)

capture the town with a cannon
They will still only give one of the size 1 towns

attack Gordium with sipahi, get hit by cannon, do one damage to rifle and retreat
next sipahi attacks fully healed vet rifle, and kill it (but redline)
sipahi does one damage and retreats from 3/3 rifle
4/4 sipahi dies to 3/4 rifle (first loss )
4/4 sipahi dies to 2/4 rifle (2nd loss)
4/4 sipahi kills 1/3 rifle
4/4 sipahi kills 1/4 rifle.. capture Gordium with 2 slaves and a cannon

cancel the alliance vs persia with sumeria just in case

make peace with persia for Vilcabamca and 360gold

make an army with the leader...

Cant buy salt from Persia because of the trade embargo they have with hittites..

Getting persia to declare on hittites would cost 44gpt, so I would rather wait for it to expire and build up knights in meantime...
We can take on hittites with just knights and sipati army I think...

sell off the improvements in the 3 towns and abandon them

have to raise lux to 10% from the inherited unhappiness from drafing and poprushing
sci to 60% for replacable parts in 9 turns

IBT:
Persia founds a new towns between the 2 ruins.. ontop of a cow

Hittites captured the Incan capital..

1265AD, turn 13:
Just troop movements back towards our lands again

IBT:

Persia start JS Bachs
we loose wines

1270AD, turn 14:
We dont need wines since has have to run 10% lux anyway, so i dont tryto renew it

put 3 sipahi into army

IBT:
Hittites actually attack one of our rifles in fort/barricades at choke with a cav.. rifleman loose one hp..

Summeria wants to trade us free atristery for electrisity... no deal

knight -> knight

1275AD, turn 15:
Incas has taken back their old capital.. either though flip or military.. most likely flip since that is the shakespare town

I left army, knights, sipahi and the cannons unmoved.. I assume you want to send them into Hittite territory and perhaps take out some of their towns.. perhaps even take out their salt town so we can upgrade knights before we abandon it (or make a colony)

The Save

 

[Greebley]

Sounds like we are doing quite well. I will have to look at the game when I get home (or after Gyathaar posts). The decisions discussed so far sound good to me AFAICT (as far as I can tell).

 

[Aggie]

Great job Gyathaar! Way to go to get us that army. I'm undecided on what to do now. We could wait with the Persian war in favour of saltpeter of the Hittites. Otoh Persia is BIG.

ROSTER (15 turns in peace time, 10 turns when at war):
Aggie
Microbe
ThERat
Gyathaar (just played)
Greebley (up)
LKendter (on deck)

 

[Gyathaar]

I just made peace with persia.. thou it prolly isnt hard to get them into war again

Persia is the only ones that can sell us salt (when the trade embargo ends in 5 turns, or we ally them vs hittites)

Persia still has monopoly on industrialization, but it would cost us electrisity and over 100gpt to get that I think it was

Currently we have no active deals exceptthe peace deal with persia and rop and lux deals with sumeria (that can be cancelled I believe)

 

[microbe]

I would try to get saltpeter from Hitties and be done with that.

We shouldn't pay gpt to get techs from Persia. Money is better spent on self-research with our scientific wonders. Brokering with weaker AIs is another matter.

 

[Greebley]

I got it. I have 2 games to play, but since they are both OCC, I may be able to turn this around tonight.

 

[ThERat]

some comments:

I want explain the strategy for my moves a little, because I felt I get a little flamed.

I got Persia to declare against us soon, since it would take us a long time to get more sipahis to do real damage to a STRONG Persia. I allied Inca and Sumer in order to weaken Persia and that worked well, well enough for Gyathaar to take out 2 cities, because Persia had burned a lot of units.
I set up the strategy such that Persian units would always attack Sumer in our land. As I wrote, they did not attack us a single time. At the same time they changed to fascist which slowed there tech pace a lot. The whole world at war is defenitely better than us trying to do the rat race for techs.

Actually I opened the mountains for Sumer to use during those turns. I would redline or ping Persian units (I upgraded trebs to cannons for 30g each since trebs versus rifles are not that effective). I wold only attack redlined units in the open, units on mountain I would leave for Sumer to clear (Note: Sumer take their turn before Persia). it all worked out well and now we even have an army.

The Incan were very close to the 2nd Persian salt source and I had hoped they might capture it and we would be able to trade from there. Well, that hope was false, I agree.

I hope you all understand my moves a little better now.

 

[Gyathaar]

Persia never attacked any of our units in my turns either.. I think because I always kept a cannon and rifle in stacks, and thius they saw the summerian rifles as easier targets

 

[ThERat]

Persia never attacked any of our units in my turns either.. I think because I always kept a cannon and rifle in stacks,

that's the great part, they see Sumer as the easier target, lucky for us, but it worked. great turns Gyathaar and exactly what I hoped would happen.

 

[microbe]

ThERat, don't feel offended by criticism. I understand why you did that, and I still think that was a mistake.

I got Persia to declare against us soon, since it would take us a long time to get more sipahis to do real damage to a STRONG Persia.

I don't get this. It would take us a long time to get sipahi's to fight a strong Persia, so we got into war without being prepared and started to fight an even stronger Persia?

I allied Inca and Sumer in order to weaken Persia and that worked well, well enough for Gyathaar to take out 2 cities, because Persia had burned a lot of units.

Sumeria was already at war with Persia and burning its units.

Sure, Gyathaar got us an army which is huge, but I'd rather say that was great execution with some luck. We had, what, 5 sipahi's to use? They might be enough to take on Hitties, but not the No.1 AI.

The fact is, we rushed into war without enough offense, lost saltpeter and gpt payment from Persia, then sat idle for 27 turns until we could take some action. Now what if we used that 27 turns to build 6 more sipahi's?

We would have done better if we prepared better. We could probably have taken more cities from Persia and even made sure it wouldn't come back.

 

[ThERat]

I don't get this. It would take us a long time to get sipahi's to fight a strong Persia, so we got into war without being prepared and started to fight an even stronger Persia?

maybe I have to rephrase

in the beginning of my turns, Persia was beating the crap out of Sumer and making their way towards them. They had plenty of Cavs as well. Even with 11 sipahis, I doubt we could have taken them on.
deleting their units with the help of Inca and Sumer, Sumer was able to slowly work their way into Persia territory and eating more Persian units, thus our 6 sipahis (+3 elite knights) were able to do damage. Maybe I should replay those turns one day to see whether your theory is correct.

and we didn't waste 27 turns in my mind. in 27 turns the AI researched almost zilch. why? due to slow down and lousy governments. Persia was too strong with only Sumer to fight and would have gotten techs much faster as well

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Move out Army

1280 AD: Get an ROP with the Inca.
Start moving workers to connect Sumerian coal if they are not already doing so.
Move out all Sapahi, Elite knights, Cannon, and some Rifles into Hittite Territory.

IBT: Sumeria replaces the town that Persia owned.

1285 AD: Attack Sulfer town with the Army.

IBT: We should build Mil Trad and Heroic Epic.

1290 AD: Army goes onto sulfer Mountain to Heal

1295 AD: Bombard Tarsus with our Cannon. Attack with our Sapahi and one Elite knight. Raze Tarsus for no losses. Kill a 1 hp Cav with an Elite Knight.

IBT: Persia and Sumeria sign a peace deal.

1300 AD: Healing. There is a single worker on the Coal.

1305 AD: Saltpeter City Razed by Army. We get 4 workers. The saltpeter is also in Hattusha's radius as well so wee need get that one too. We get RP and start on Sci Meth.


1310 AD: The embargo ended but the Saltpeter is no longer Available.
Tarsus attack force heads for Hattusas.

1315 AD: Hattusas attack force bombards a Rifle and settler on a Hill. Elite Sapahi kills the 1 hp Rifle. We get 2 more workers.

IBT: Persia and Hittites re-sign the trade embargo.

1320 AD: Attack Hattusha.

1325 AD: Heal army.

1330 AD: Sumeria connects their coal! We trade Electricity to Sumeria for Coal, Wines, Industrialization, 360 gold and 54 gpt, World Map, and Free Artistry (because I can).

Bombardment on Hattusas doesn't go well. We don't attack.

1335 AD: Again Bombardment doesn't go well. Army is Healing.

1340 AD: Army attacks and Razes Hattusha Grr. Saltpeter is in Incan lands now.
Bombardment on Hattusas goes poorly.

1345 AD: Bombardment is Mediocre. Army kills Rifles which should improve our chances of doing damage next turn.

1350 AD: Our cannon succeed vs Hattusas. We redline all defenders and destroy some Population. Elite units attack and we Raze Hattusuas without loss.

I build a furs Colony with a Worker we get from Hattusas

Notes:
The Incan capitol (Corihuayrachina) is keep us from building a Rubber Colony and a Saltpeter Colony. We should destroy them. They have only two cities.

The Hittites have 1 size 3 city left. We should destroy them too and build an Ivory Colony.

After that I think we shoul seal Sumeria away from Persian lands and go for the kill on Persia. We will have Artillery and Infantry so it shouldn't be hard. Then we finally kill Sumeria. (If we do it in that order we may keep our Colonies as Sumeria will have to ship Settlers over.

I feel we can win this game by Conquest.

Science Method in 1 turn. We are building the Mil Academy that can be switched to TOE. I would not take Atomic Theory and Electronics. Instead I would take 2 techs leading to flight and Moterized Transport.

We have an ROP with the Incas. IIRC, we can break this and take no hit provided that we don't have any units in enemy territory. Can anyone confirm or deny this? In other words, I don't think we have to wait the 6 turns for the ROP to run out

Sumeria is already sending settlers to resettle the lands we cleared. I suggest allying with Sumeria vs Persia so Persia will kill the settlers in its lands. Alternatively we could try to close off the choke just North on Incan territory.

Great just as I was about to end I noticed the big stack of workers near our territory. They belatedly start railing. Gyathaar, for idiots like me, could you wake up one worker in a stack of workers at the end of your turn? I have also missed settler fortified settler stacks to. You don't need to wake them all. Just one. Apologies to the team for not having our lands railed. I should have spotted them. I was looking above our city not below.

I didn't MM after building some rails

 

[Greebley]

The short form of my suggested game plan is

1) Declare war on the Incans ASAP.
2) Destroy their Capitol and build colonies on the Saltpeter, Coal, and Rubber.
3) Destroy the Hittite last city and Incans last city. Grab the Ivory and silks.
4) Prepare for war with Persia.
5) Attack Persia with help from Sumeria (this will hopefully kill Sumerian settlers in their lands and slow Sumeria from ruining our colonies).
6) Hold the choke North of the Incan lands so we only need to deal with boat landings.
7) Probably switch sides after 20 turns.

 

[microbe]

Definitely agree on taking out Inca, and then turn to Persia. Sumeria has no saltpeter, so it will be dealt with later with ease (with a pretty narrow front).

I would break the RoP.

On ToE: I don't think we ever need that. We'd still research 3 full techs to get tanks, and I doubt we'll ever need that. I'd rather have 7 more sipahi's (and if we shut off research we could rush units like mad), but that's just me.

Also, I definitely would consider mobolizing and going full speed on conquest.

 

[Greebley]

The Mil Acad is probably worthwhile. We could complete that. Making our army stronger vs rifles would definitely help. I think it would add +2 attack strength to our army (and +1 defense)

On the TOE, You may be right. I am not sure I want the AI to get it though. If they have flight and we don't it is harder.

I think we will be strong enough to hurt Persia quickly so going for the Mil Acad seems reasonable to me. It is only if our attack fails or is very hard would I regret not building TOE.

 

[Aggie]

Another great turn

I want to discuss a couple of things as well:
-We have Scientific Method next turn. We still want Sanitation and Espionage (don't we?). I would switch to ToE next turn, ready in 12 and maybe faster (when we railroad our lands). And stop research (forever?). Can be discussed though.
-We can break the ROP without any problems, as long as we don't have military in Incan lands.
-I would like to see us taking out that Incan city now. The Hittites are at war with Persia and Sumeria. They shouldn't be able to survive.
-I then would turn on Persia, with the help of Sumeria. It might be best if we start from the west and let Sumeria go after Persia through the centre, close to our capital (EDIT: city ). This should be most damaging for both and we don't want to see Sumeria grow peacefully very fast.
-Regarding mobilization: we also still want a factory and coal plant. Then we can mobilize.
-I definately like to win this by conquest with space as a back-up win.
-Lux tax can go to 0%!!
-EDIT: Why didn't we build a factory (and coal plant) before Military Acadamy???

ROSTER (15 turns in peace time, 10 turns when at war):
Aggie (on deck)
Microbe
ThERat
Gyathaar
Greebley (just played)
LKendter (up)

 

[microbe]

-We have Scientific Method next turn. We still want Sanitation and Espionage (don't we?). I would switch to ToE next turn, ready in 12 and maybe faster (when we railroad our lands). And stop research (forever?). Can be discussed though.

Do we have industrialization? If not, we need that tech. (if yes, build it before ToE) Espionage has no use - what tech we are going to steal? We are the tech leader. I see us need Industrializaiton and probably Sanitation.

 

[Aggie]

Do we have industrialization? If not, we need that tech. Espionage has no use - what tech we are going to steal? We are the tech leader. I see us need Industrializaiton and probably Sanitation.

We have industrialization! We should have built factory/coal plant imvho...

 

[Gyathaar]

Great just as I was about to end I noticed the big stack of workers near our territory. They belatedly start railing. Gyathaar, for idiots like me, could you wake up one worker in a stack of workers at the end of your turn? I have also missed settler fortified settler stacks to. You don't need to wake them all. Just one.

Oops.. sorry about that, I should have mentioned i fortified the workers there in writeup too