AG5 - Honorable Space Race

Originally posted by microbe
By the way, Meli, if you have problem finishing this (as 2 days have gone by), I can play as I was just skipped (and itching for some civ). ;)
Click to expand...

Yes please do Microbe...

Will need some time to get over this weekend and I have already promised Aggie a different SG for Tuesday.

Thanks

Melifluous
 
SAVE: 650AD

preturn: Physics in 1, Smith's in 3, Copernicus in 8, very good!

I switch rax in Chinje to settler and rush it.

IBT: Maya demands Chemistry, I decline, he declares! Physics->ToG. Chinje settler->rax. This settler is going to ride on a galley and send to the English island SE to us - there is an unclaimed iron.

(1)560AD: lux to 0. Sci to 60, ToG due in 8. I sell Economics to Greece for 1227g+34gpt (full price), and now we can raise sci to 100 and get ToG in 5 turns. Eco to Hitties for Music Theory and 64g (all his gold). I then give Eco to America for MA+39g, to England for MA, but I leave China alone as I want Maya to buy it against us. ;) Smith's due in 2, but I think it's safe. MM Taejon to max shields to get Aqueduct in 8 turns instead of 12, while it's pop is already 6 and will grow in 2 turns.

IBT Taegu worker->worker, MM to get in 3. America builds JS Bach's - wow, they could have completed Smith's. Maya completes Copernicus. :eek:

(2)570AD: Switch Copernicus to Leo. Worker actions.

IBT Hitties request Physics, I refuse. He declares!

We complete Smith's, and unexpectedly, we enter our golden age!

Maya drops a pike and a JT next to Taejon. Unfurtunately we only have a horse nearby so it will pillage for a couple of turns before our knights come to rescue.

(3)580AD: I upgrade a horse to knight. Lower sci to 70, ToG still in 3.

I sell Physics to Greece for Metallury+81gpt - full price. I should probably have done so last turn. Greece has Mil Tradition.

Now we are able to build Hwacha's!

IBT Maya JT kills a reg warrior. Paegam University->Hwach'a.

(4)590AD: movement.

IBT 3hp JT attacks vet horse in Taejon, loses by 1hp! reg pike moves to mountain instead of pillaging the cattle tile. I'll leave it there.

(5)600AD: I sell Music Theory to China for 12g+worker.

IBT ToG->Magnetism. Seoul University->Hwach'a. America starts Shakespear.

(6)610AD: We actually can build Leo in 6 turns, and Newton in 9 turns with the Palace prebuild. I decide to go this way, as nobody knows ToG so no fear for cascade. Only Greece may know ToG in the near future, but he is building Leo in a size-6 city. Let's try to get both.

Greece and America have Navigation.

Some American MDIs enter our land, but I think they are going after the lone pike that Maya dropped in our territory.

We can research Magnetism in 4 turns with 80% sci. :D

IBT Pusan University->bank. Taejon Aqueduct->market. Haeju market->university. Greece starts Shakespear.

(7)620AD: Greece knows ToG now! Wow this guy is fast. Maya captured Liverpool. :eek:

WM+26g to America for TM. WM+24g to Greece for TM. America is building Leo in NY which is size 7. So looks like we are really safe for getting the two wonders.

IBT Seoul Hwa->bank. Cheju bank->knight. Usan bank->Hwa. Paegam Hwa->market. Kaesong university->Aqueduct.

Greece starts Newton's.

(8)630AD: zzz

IBT America starts Magellan's.

(9)640AD: Bombard and kill the Mayan pike.

IBT We enter Industrial Ages the first! And get Medicine. :( Set to Steam Power due in 6 with 90 sci. American troops withdraw.

Wonsan Bank->knight. Sariwon market->Aqueduct. I switch Cheju from knight to galleon.

(10)650AD: Maya agrees to talk and he has Navigation but lacks Physics. No thanks for now. Greece still has Monopoly on Military Tradition and wouldn't trade it with Magnesitm. Fine.

Summary: We'll have Leo in 2 and Newton in 5. After Leo we can upgrade most units. Most of our core cities are finishing infra and will start military soon.

I have't traded for World Map yet but I did buy TM from America and Greece.

We are at war with Maya and Hitties. I suggest making peace with Hitties as soon as he would talk, and focus on Maya.

Next we should send some knights/Hwach'a to take over Liverpool. There is a pike/settler pair in the galley to settle next to Reading to take the iron as shown in the below picture.

Good luck!
 
Sounded incredibly risky! Was Chemistry that important? Being a warmonger I don't shy from a good fight but I think we are seriously outgunned here. Being in our GA should get us producing troops quickly and getting/trading to MilTrad may be important fairly quickly. As soon as steam comes in we should be able to pick it up. Too bad we didn't get MilTrad with ToG.
Well lets make the best of it and hopefully China will get bought into this so we can acquire some more territory. Hopefully we can get some troops built before then. Knight to cav upgrade utilizing Leos will be sweet.
Perhaps a stop at industrialization prior to Elec/SM would be in order. Next leader will have to see how close Greece is to researching. A couple of factory prebuilds after our 2 wonders come in would be sweet for getting ToE and Hoovers. Then it should be mooth sailing.
 
Maya was at war with hitties and germany at that point. Although it was No.1 in score, it wouldn't hurt us. The only one we should avoid war with is America so by buying it we are pretty safe.

But we do need to build more military in the next 10 turns.

For Military Tradition, I didn't trade for it because

1. I wanted to get Newton's safely.
2. we were still building infra so the tech is not really needed now. With our tech lead we can get it any time we want. Plus without it we could build knights and then upgrade using Leo.
3. Greece is the only civ that could threaten our tech lead position (probably I should have dragged it into war). Trading ToG for an optional tech seems unwise to me in this game.
 
Imho research priorities are now Steam, Industrialization, Electricity, Scientific Method, Atomic Theory, Electronics. The AI will probably research Nationalism, Communism, Fascism. So we should be save for ToE and Hoover. I would have gone for Newton over Leo. But if we can get both I am happy.

The fact that we would be in a GA with Smith was no surprise :)

I probably would have given the Maya their tech, but this is also OK. We can indeed capture Liverpool, but I would like to see us making peace sooner rather than later. I fear MA's while we are not prepared.

ROSTER:
Aggie
Microbe------------> just played
Barbslinger
Melifluous---------> up
CarlosMM ---------> on deck
Stuck as a Mac
 
I think that we can lose Newton after a cascade when we finish Leo. Somehow I think that others will have ToG soon. I don't think Leo is worth it (in this game!).

EDIT: The others already HAVE ToG, so we will NOT get both wonders. I vote for Newton. This means switching Leo to Newton now and losing 129 shields in the Newton city. Since we don't want to focus on war in this game I think this is what should be done :(
 
Originally posted by Aggie
EDIT: The others already HAVE ToG, so we will NOT get both wonders.
Click to expand...

I agree Newton is more important, but I did careful analysis before I decided to go for both, and there was a reason why I bought TM from America and Greece - I wanted to see New York and Argos which are building Leo. At that time only these two were close to ToG and they are the only ones who know it right now.

Assuming nobody else gets to know ToG in the next two turns, then with New York of size 7 and Argos of size 6, I'm quite confident they wouldn't get Newton's in 5 turns. If anyone else gets to know ToG it may change.

Now, I have to admit I didn't know whether Hitties have ToG. It's possible (given the fact that it demanded Physics 9 turns ago, not that much), but I would take the risk, because although we don't see Malataya (Hitties city building Leo), its capital is only size 7 so I wouldn't think Malataya could be big enough to be a threat.

So my suggestion is:

1. Invesgitate Argos and New York to see how much shields they have got. If they can build Newton's in 4 turns switch Leo to Newton's asap.

2. If the two cities are no threat, do not switch Leo to Newton's right now. Wait until next turn and see:
1) if Hitties would talk. If so, see if they have ToG. If not, we are safe.
2) if anyone else gets ToG. If not, we are safe.

Investigate the cities if anyone else gets ToG.

If unsure (say Hitties wouldn't talk), switch Leo to ToG.

It may cost us a couple of hundred gold for the investigation but the money is well worth it IMO.

Thoughts?
 
Don't forget that cascade will start when we finish Leo! EDIT: And Newton is worth far less, so they might already have the needed shields.

EDIT2: Losing Newton wouldn't be a disaster and Leo is also good. But if the gambit fails, someone has to buy me a beer ;)
 
Originally posted by Aggie
Don't forget that cascade will start when we finish Leo! EDIT: And Newton is worth far less, so they might already have the needed shields.

EDIT2: Losing Newton wouldn't be a disaster and Leo is also good. But if the gambit fails, someone has to buy me a beer ;)
Click to expand...

I agree and that's why I suggested investigation and I think it's pretty safe that way.

I did some more research.

I went back to see when Greece started Leo. Argos actually started Sun Tzu's somewhere between 530BC and 330BC in CalosMM's turn and it cascaded to Leo. That's 70-80 turns ago. Let's say 80. Indeed it's already very long and they are very likely to be close to Leo already.

So I agree with you that we can switch now if we don't want to pay some gold for the investigation, and I'll support this decision. I would probably have not tried this plan if I had done this research earlier. On the other hand if we don't care about the money, my plan should be good too.
 
I need to be on skip between now and next Saturday. Thats April 15th to April 25th. Sorry to do this, but there's an evil bald headed man (my director) who will be controling me for those 10 days. Wish me luck (or don't, depending if you're in the theater). I might put up a pic or two, so you can all see SaaM in action (and bright yellow tights)

SaaM
 
aggie, sorry, I was unexpectedly busy this weekend :( RL has a bad way of popping up when you don't expect it, and usually in the ****tiest versions.


so I haven't palyed yet, and do not expect to be able to start before around 16:00 this afternoon.

feel free to skip me and dump Leos please!
 
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