Morgawr
Civ Fanatic
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,235
@Siesta Guru, I take it that your mod v6 is fully "compatible" w/ the new patch? None of the changes they made conflicted/overrode any of your changes?
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- Thread starter Siesta Guru
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Siesta Guru
Prince
1. There's unfortunately a couple of things that affect 'agressiveness', so it's not a quick setting somewhere. There's a unit-level aggression, which can decide not to attack if ts health is low, this can be changed in behaviortrees (the defend unit nodes). Then there's an operation-level aggression, which determines what units they'll send in at what point, and at which point it goes into retreat mode, this is a rather complicated system, so I'd recommend just sticking with AI+ if you want (small) improvements there. And then there's the amount of units they produce and how willing they're to go to war etc, again sadly not small tweaks.
2. It mostly doesn't care in vanilla, but still does a little indirectly. The indirect effect is through it sometimes deciding it needs to add units to do certain operations, like defending cities. But it tends to be way late and way too little. In AI+ I've changed it so that there's a significant base desire difference when at war or when its cities are threatened. It'll focus military and leave longterm things be for a bit. It stil won't be a full 100% military production because a permanent war would then completely wreck an AI, but it's much more reasonable I feel.
Unfortunately it still won't do things like canceling wonder production if its in the middle of it..
Yeah it's definitely caused by vanilla problems, just trying to do everything here to try and solve it. It did for a while actually get worse with this mod on, so gotta be careful here.
That's correct. The patch is also a change to the base xml files, so if anything its me overriding them. So far it seems to work perfectly fine though.
Ah sorry, forgot about the filename! If you want to confirm you have the right one, look inside of the modinfo file, you should see the actual version number located somewhere near the top.
Awesome! It's behaviortrees.xml in base/assets/gameplay/data that I'm most curious about but the entire data map would be great to have,
gheorghos130
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2016
- Messages
- 6
Siesta you are amazing.
Thank you so much for making our beloved game playable.
Going to try the VI version, could you please let me know if mod 'learns' AI how to conduct wars?
thank you again,cheers.
Thank you so much for making our beloved game playable.
Going to try the VI version, could you please let me know if mod 'learns' AI how to conduct wars?
thank you again,cheers.
When I enable this with the Fall Patch, I always get a random amount of Civs. I select large map, pick my Civ and Opponents. Once the game has loaded and I check the Victory progress there is never 10 civs but a random 4-8 not including myself. If I turn this mod off I get the 10 civs, every time. Anyone else noticed this?
Siesta Guru
Prince
You're welcome! So the AI does get somewhat better at war, but not massively so. What you'll probably see is that it got better at sending appropriate amounts of units in, and that it'll reinforce it's troops better. It also won't stand around staring at your city nearly as much. But it'll still be nowhere near the level of humans.
That's weird... No idea what could be causing something like that. Check your modding.log and gamecore.log when it happens and see if you find anything funny
Ah thank you so much!
So for those curious, what they did in the settler escort fix is that they moved three nodes around in the settler behavior tree to correct a bug. In the original method, it would try to make a formation after moving to the intended spot, instead of before. Now it does it the right way.
It's a change I had made as well at some point, so you won't see any increase in competence if you had been using AI+. The change does make it a little better than the launch version, but not too much, as unfortunately the behaviortree often skips past the formation node as if it's completed, without any formations actually being formed. It appears it may only do anything if settler and escort are already standing on top of each other, without it attempting to move the two together.
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I traked it down to another mod, Mapscript mod of all things. Soz to trouble ya.
Hi all,
Here is my first report about v5 (games are long, havent tried v6 yet, but it seems changelog doesnt impact this report):
- it's true the "no wall issue" is not entirely gone, but it's already 'acceptable'. AI didnt have wall when he could but after a long siege with units, he built some (well in like 20 turns on "online" speed, but he did)
- the main issue "AI doesnt attack" is not gone. I had 5 or 6 poor ranged units (slingers/scythia unic but without 50 kill-heal capab (changed that to 25%, too OP imho) or whatevere the name in english) shooting around and standing near his city (which had no wall) and AI had like 6 knights (!!) that didn"t attack most of the time, for about 15-20 turns. Once in a while he made an attack, losing only 20 hp while my unit lose 60, but he seemed to never attack if not at full health! So I just had to keep his units "below 100% health" or even just so only one was in range of the same unit of mine (err ur following?) to never lose a unit, where I should have been crushed even by a kamikaze AI. In the end, I just shot them down with ranged.
Side-consequence: the AI is very bad at crushing lesser AI, even if at war and with ultra superiority, not that much a worry but feels "stagnant" throughout the world". When a city is capture AI to AI it's like the event of the millenium lol.
I will post screenshots with turns later, I kept the save files.
I looked at mod files, I think you already did great at how AI stack troops to attack a city, but is there any value to change to make the AI more likely to attack on a "one turn" basis?
At this point, I feel even a kamikaze-nobrain-AI with rule "always attack a unit when I can if at war" would do better than civ6 strategic AI
Here is my first report about v5 (games are long, havent tried v6 yet, but it seems changelog doesnt impact this report):
- it's true the "no wall issue" is not entirely gone, but it's already 'acceptable'. AI didnt have wall when he could but after a long siege with units, he built some (well in like 20 turns on "online" speed, but he did)
- the main issue "AI doesnt attack" is not gone. I had 5 or 6 poor ranged units (slingers/scythia unic but without 50 kill-heal capab (changed that to 25%, too OP imho) or whatevere the name in english) shooting around and standing near his city (which had no wall) and AI had like 6 knights (!!) that didn"t attack most of the time, for about 15-20 turns. Once in a while he made an attack, losing only 20 hp while my unit lose 60, but he seemed to never attack if not at full health! So I just had to keep his units "below 100% health" or even just so only one was in range of the same unit of mine (err ur following?) to never lose a unit, where I should have been crushed even by a kamikaze AI. In the end, I just shot them down with ranged.
Side-consequence: the AI is very bad at crushing lesser AI, even if at war and with ultra superiority, not that much a worry but feels "stagnant" throughout the world". When a city is capture AI to AI it's like the event of the millenium lol.
I will post screenshots with turns later, I kept the save files.
I looked at mod files, I think you already did great at how AI stack troops to attack a city, but is there any value to change to make the AI more likely to attack on a "one turn" basis?
At this point, I feel even a kamikaze-nobrain-AI with rule "always attack a unit when I can if at war" would do better than civ6 strategic AI
Siesta Guru
Prince
Hi all,
Here is my first report about v5 (games are long, havent tried v6 yet, but it seems changelog doesnt impact this report):
- it's true the "no wall issue" is not entirely gone, but it's already 'acceptable'. AI didnt have wall when he could but after a long siege with units, he built some (well in like 20 turns on "online" speed, but he did)
- the main issue "AI doesnt attack" is not gone. I had 5 or 6 poor ranged units (slingers/scythia unic but without 50 kill-heal capab (changed that to 25%, too OP imho) or whatevere the name in english) shooting around and standing near his city (which had no wall) and AI had like 6 knights (!!) that didn"t attack most of the time, for about 15-20 turns. Once in a while he made an attack, losing only 20 hp while my unit lose 60, but he seemed to never attack if not at full health! So I just had to keep his units "below 100% health" or even just so only one was in range of the same unit of mine (err ur following?) to never lose a unit, where I should have been crushed even by a kamikaze AI. In the end, I just shot them down with ranged.
Side-consequence: the AI is very bad at crushing lesser AI, even if at war and with ultra superiority, not that much a worry but feels "stagnant" throughout the world". When a city is capture AI to AI it's like the event of the millenium lol.
I will post screenshots with turns later, I kept the save files.
I looked at mod files, I think you already did great at how AI stack troops to attack a city, but is there any value to change to make the AI more likely to attack on a "one turn" basis?
At this point, I feel even a kamikaze-nobrain-AI with rule "always attack a unit when I can if at war" would do better than civ6 strategic AI
Thanks for the feedback!
Honestly, I think you're basically right, the AI could accomplish more if it just kamikaze-rushed its units in with no regard for their safety, especially in terms of defensive behavior. Based on the name of the zerg operation in my files you can see I've actually kind of attempted that in the agressive tactics, sadly with little luck. There's unfortunately no direct way to force that kind of behavior, so it still has to be faked through operations (with one man teams), and it's not so easy to get right.
When it comes to aggressive behavior, it'll unfortunately probably end up being worse with full-on zerg-like behavior. One of the bigger reasons is that the AI does almost all its war declarations through the operation system. If you'd allow these tiny one man teams to declare war, they'll declare war on everything in sight (I've seen this, it's fun to watch, but doesn't make for a good game). If you don't, they'll never declare war.
On top of that, there's no way to coordinate these one man teams walking to the same city, and there's no way to coordinate them attacking the cities at the same time. With the current insane healing on cities, they would never take a single city.
Hopefully I'll manage to improve on it a little more, but as for now, I worry the system here is just way too limited and dll access is required.
Interesting to hear that the non-attacking thing is still an issue. Will have a further look at that. My hunch was/is that it's basically units that have been locked in to some purpose (a city attack, clearing a barb camp) and are waiting for something. But that doesn't completely match with your report on their healths.
Littlebob86
Prince
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2016
- Messages
- 332
I had a settler running around close to a few barbarians, a melee horse, a ranged horse, a scout and a warrior (the warrior was the furthest at 3 tiles away), and none of them went for him.
Well, in my present game (AI+ v6, smoother difficulty: Kings, 8AoP, 8AoW, Impr. Water yields, 6-player-balanced map)
I met a lonely barb settler in the middle of the map... captured it with my scout... I guess first barbs took it from AI...
First thanks for your work. Tried Fall patch without the mod and still was pretty horrible AI.
Then added back version 6 and AI is ok and make for a reasonable game, I do have slower tech and policy enabled but that's all. Some observation.
- AI does settle pretty good, they do settle a little to often closer without access to water than instead of going a little further for a water location. I think this is better for the AI even though this will make some cities small to begin with, the draw back is that the players settle recommendation can basically be ignored as its uses the same logic, which is not optimal.
- Ai War, Better they do use wounded units more but still start healing at about 70% or so instead of fleeing or continue attack. Its not all bad as units at 70% does fight with lower attack value. Personally I think we can get rid of stay still in around enemy and heal for AI for now, and just make it either attack or retreat, make retreat higher maybe 50%.
Then added back version 6 and AI is ok and make for a reasonable game, I do have slower tech and policy enabled but that's all. Some observation.
- AI does settle pretty good, they do settle a little to often closer without access to water than instead of going a little further for a water location. I think this is better for the AI even though this will make some cities small to begin with, the draw back is that the players settle recommendation can basically be ignored as its uses the same logic, which is not optimal.
- Ai War, Better they do use wounded units more but still start healing at about 70% or so instead of fleeing or continue attack. Its not all bad as units at 70% does fight with lower attack value. Personally I think we can get rid of stay still in around enemy and heal for AI for now, and just make it either attack or retreat, make retreat higher maybe 50%.
Real SciPio
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2016
- Messages
- 16
this mode and increased min city distance (+4 tiles) mode make AI perfect at settling
micro war waaay better than vanilla but macro ...errrmm....AI attacks with overwhelming force (immortal) than several turns later if you repel him he will make peace with huuuuge reparations (last time scythia gave me all cities but capitol!?) even thou he is ahead on science, culture, faith, military, cities.......
attacking cities by AI nearly not happening if cities have walls and atleast 1 range unit around
like AI is just bluffing most of the time...starting the attack but eagerly avaiting to give you his gold and cities ....too shy most of the time... like nerd in brothel
oh...and obsolete units spamming still happening...less than before but still...
micro war waaay better than vanilla but macro ...errrmm....AI attacks with overwhelming force (immortal) than several turns later if you repel him he will make peace with huuuuge reparations (last time scythia gave me all cities but capitol!?) even thou he is ahead on science, culture, faith, military, cities.......
attacking cities by AI nearly not happening if cities have walls and atleast 1 range unit around
like AI is just bluffing most of the time...starting the attack but eagerly avaiting to give you his gold and cities ....too shy most of the time... like nerd in brothel
oh...and obsolete units spamming still happening...less than before but still...
Gort
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2010
- Messages
- 1,518
I wonder if the solution to "The AI doesn't build X because they ignore the tech for it due to beelining" is to just have the AI research the cheapest available tech at all times. It's what I do when I'm learning a strategy game for the first time and I don't really know what's worth beelining to, and would make sure they don't ignore any important dead-end techs.
Whoo! Rome took one of my cities! I'm so excited! I actually am...even after the fall patch the AI never did anything like that. Never been so happy to lose a city. I took it back of course. Nice to see Rome acting like the backstabbing warmongers I know and love from earlier Civ games 
Azmodanrom
Chieftain
i am seeing the AI settle a lot as well...but i don;t think it;s such a good idea.
the cities are never developed. they run with 2-3 settlers all the time while the capital and core cities are at 6-7 and the new cities remain at 1-2 for a long time.
i would rather see fewer better developed cities from the AI ....
the cities are never developed. they run with 2-3 settlers all the time while the capital and core cities are at 6-7 and the new cities remain at 1-2 for a long time.
i would rather see fewer better developed cities from the AI ....
