AI+ v13.1

[Siesta Guru]

yes, I really would appreciate that if you could send me the modified one.

Here you go, the new yields etc is displays are on the far right. Change the extension to .lpt to make it work (didn't allow me to upload that)

Only did the display values, editing them to give the AI faith etc will not work.

 

[Zuizgond]

Hi Siesta,

Thanks a lot for the new version! I will probably try it this weekend.

May I ask what you changed regarding the below point?
"Made some minor alterations to late game city strength and barbarian spawn rates"

Did you lower late game city strength to make it easier to AI to capture cities? This is how I interpret it but just wanted to confirm. And what about barbs?

 

[Qarisma]

I've been trying a couple of different things to make the AI more aggressive in my own game. First, I set all the terrain defense modifiers to negative values which makes sure that attacking is always better than defending. Also I removed all city walls from the game to make undefended cities easy targets. I also use mods that makes all techs required eventually to progress and no units require strategic resources because the AI is too dumb to gain access to more advanced units otherwise.

The problem with civ 6 is that it heavily favors defense over offence which makes war punishing for the attacker, but potentially beneficial in the long time if they are successful. But as we all know, the AI is incapable of thinking long-term so the only real solution to the issue is to make war more beneficial in the short-time. Vanilla AI probably overcomes this by artificially boosting the AI's confidence which is why they attack and then quickly retreat and offer everything they have.

With the changes I made, I've gotten some interesting results. AI are still very bad at tactics in war but fighting them was significantly more difficult. In many instances I would attack their units but they would survive with little health and counterattack and kill my units. Fighting an AI with better tech is virtually impossible. Barbarians would tear apart my early game armies. However, the AI were still just not as aggressive as I wanted them to be. Another issue is that the AI is very bad at allocating it's troops. Often times they will have troops sitting on my borders while they are actively at war with someone else.

 

[Siesta Guru]

Hi Siesta,

Thanks a lot for the new version! I will probably try it this weekend.

May I ask what you changed regarding the below point?
"Made some minor alterations to late game city strength and barbarian spawn rates"

Did you lower late game city strength to make it easier to AI to capture cities? This is how I interpret it but just wanted to confirm. And what about barbs?

That's correct, to make it not completely impossible (although still rare). These are the exact changes:
Cities now get an additional strength point at every 3 population (was 2)
Cities now get 6 combat points from a garrison (was 10)
They now get 1 defense and 40 hp from every defensive structure, down from 2 defense and 50 hp
They now only get the increase of 2 combat points from encampments, not from any of the other districts

Barb wise. Barbarians now spawn these attacking 'armies':
From chieftain to warlord: 2 melee, 1 ranged, 1 siege
From prince to emperor: 3 melee, 1 ranged (down from 2), 1 siege
On Immortal and Deity: 3 melee (down from 4), 2 ranged (down from 3), 1 siege, 1 support.

 

[Siesta Guru]

Vanilla AI probably overcomes this by artificially boosting the AI's confidence which is why they attack and then quickly retreat and offer everything they have.
Another issue is that the AI is very bad at allocating it's troops. Often times they will have troops sitting on my borders while they are actively at war with someone else.

Some good thoughts in here. Just have some details to add on these two:
The AI determines that a target is a good target by calculation some odds that it will win, based on combat strength etc. Unfortunately when it drops below this during the attack, it can also end up dissolving the operation, making them retreat.
The main problem here is that combat odds will almost always decrease during the war based on its calculations. If you send a unit in as reinforcements, or if they lose a unit/some health. They will see that they've now dropped below their desired combat odds. There's no good way of solving this by adjusting the combat odds percentage they require, because in almost all cases, they will send armies that are barely stronger than what is required.
There's two variables in the xml who's names suggest that they'd help with this problem. But testing suggests they don't really do much (InitialStrengthAdvantage, OngoingStrengthAdvantage)

Yeah if you see units sitting on your border, the most likely scenario is that they tried to attack you with those units, but that at the last moment, when they would normally declare war, the diplomacy AI tells them now is not a good time for war. Weirdly enough, there is no way to discern between: 'the diplomacy AI doesn't want war' and 'the diplomacy AI wants war, but let's give it one turn'. So then they patiently await, just in case the diplomacy AI ends up changing its mind.
Meanwhile, when their cities get attacked, they have no system to overrule the operation that was already given to these units. So they get stuck in their attack city operation while their homes burn.

 

[kfoelsch]

I've been sampling the new version in my latest game. In the previous version, the AI seemed to be too aggressive with settling... They'd send mobs of settlers to my borders so that I could just capture them. In this version... they're no longer trying to send settlers through me (great!) However, they might be undersettling their own territory, because it's much easier for me to expand into them now (not so good...)

 

[V. Soma]

I've been sampling the new version in my latest game. In the previous version, the AI seemed to be too aggressive with settling... They'd send mobs of settlers to my borders so that I could just capture them. In this version... they're no longer trying to send settlers through me (great!) However, they might be undersettling their own territory, because it's much easier for me to expand into them now (not so good...)

yes, in v8 I also saw (in the one hgame I had) That AI does not settle that effectively as in previous version...

 

[Boosthungry]

Does the AI ever fortify in-place? I saw mentioned that one decision tree is to run and heal, but what about fortify in place?

I can imagine scenarios where the AI will probably make some stupid move where they would have been better off waiting for backup, or playing defensive and letting an attacker come at them, or healing a bit while siege units attack a city. Situations where they shouldn't waste a turn running and instead just fortify in place, even if there's a bit of danger around.

Though I can imagine this introducing bugs where two AI set their units to fortify right next to each other and they just both sit there doing nothing.

 

[Zuizgond]

That's correct, to make it not completely impossible (although still rare). These are the exact changes:
Cities now get an additional strength point at every 3 population (was 2)
Cities now get 6 combat points from a garrison (was 10)
They now get 1 defense and 40 hp from every defensive structure, down from 2 defense and 50 hp
They now only get the increase of 2 combat points from encampments, not from any of the other districts

Barb wise. Barbarians now spawn these attacking 'armies':
From chieftain to warlord: 2 melee, 1 ranged, 1 siege
From prince to emperor: 3 melee, 1 ranged (down from 2), 1 siege
On Immortal and Deity: 3 melee (down from 4), 2 ranged (down from 3), 1 siege, 1 support.

Thanks, looking forward to trying with those new setiings!

 

[reee]

so about my problem. and is only capital sity for AI player in turn 622 and like 2-3 setler in him capital but no oder tawn i used AI+ and The test of time mods only and standart map size,maraton most slow game speed,and Deity difikulty, island plates map tip , but map to i got was like big island i uses setle 9 town 5-6 title one from oder isla was like round shape and IA islands was same. can say to IA bild 10x more unit me but i pass over him just to 3 archer and 2 mele in 10 turn i lost only 1 archer IA tack me only uf i abandon unit alone 2-3 title from oder my unit after this i got bored and delete game. so i realy no hapy from mod but i hope to is no finished yet, and my idea is to fix this rule "uf strong" to make ally and go war or make 10 unint and go war after lost unit try peace. sory my english i never studi it but i realy like game and this AI for now make me sleep and bored me, uf some have idea how to boost AI pls tell me ty

i tink to developer can add litel cheat for AI to settle more town and bild more unit and add 100x agresion vs human player for we have some fun in time need for developer made spart AI ty

 

[cof125]

Great to hear your initial observations seem good. Will await further feedback and see if there's more to do. Might start looking a little at the agendas soon if no big problems arise.



Ah yes, the multiplayer aspect of it still seems non-functional for now. Don't think there's anything I can do about it at the moment, we'll have to wait for some core game updates for that I'm afraid.



Yeah if a big patch hits, I would recommend just turning it off for a bit. Like the fall patch, I don't expect too much will change that requires significant changes on my end, but we'll see. I'll end up just retesting most of it and would hope to get a quick compatible version out.



Hah, no that's intended. Sounds like I should change the wording on that. The 'stronk' strategy is basically just a 'super strong' strategy.



Yeah I've been thinking of and working on an improved tree myself for a sideproject. There's quite a few things in there that are either annoying for ai, cause strange imbalances (chemistry beeline), and have weird flavor implications (modern ships without shipbuilding, some airplanes without flight, crossbows with archery etc). Might be worth pooling our ideas and those of maddjinn together to create the best thing we can.
Personally feel the civic tree is much more reasonable, but that could also use some work I suppose

Yeah i agree found some balancing issues on prince its like ******** hard played with some inner ring values and it seemed to fix it. They too op in the victories slightly for such low difficulty harder then civilization 5 kinda uploading my mod pack back up. Also would like to maybe work out a new combat system where units using resources get +2 attack for each resource controlled. but i would need a starting point on how it have to be calculated on the inside. Add little more fun have re-balanced resources too again coast more effective so AI settles it now.

 

[Seven05]

Also would like to maybe work out a new combat system where units using resources get +2 attack for each resource controlled. but i would need a starting point on how it have to be calculated on the inside. Add little more fun have re-balanced resources too again coast more effective so AI settles it now.

Aztecs have that effect with Luxuries.

Modifiers.xml

        <Row>
            <ModifierType>MODIFIER_PLAYER_UNITS_ADJUST_PER_LUXURY_ATTACK_MODIFIER</ModifierType>
            <CollectionType>COLLECTION_PLAYER_UNITS</CollectionType>
            <EffectType>EFFECT_ADJUST_UNIT_PER_LUXURY_ATTACK_MODIFIER</EffectType>
        </Row>

I haven't messed with those at all to know any more than that though, but you just asked for a starting point

 

[friday1st]

King, 6 leaf.
Playing with china - 7 cities - epic- 1700bc ish...
So far no wars - AI does not seem to be able to settle at all - 2 opponents have 3 cities and iv got 5 settlers re captured from barbs - it seems that the AI does not know how to protect its workers or settlers at all.
I have 5 archers and one warrior - im friend with 3 countries - even aztecs which constantly spam about my luxuries - so far noone is in war. which is new.
my center 3 cities were unprotected with all the lux and still no attack while england had 3 archers and 3 warriors next to my city - I was 110% sure it was about to be captured cause england had 1 city...

 

[sp00n]

The AI doesn't seem to value repairing pillaged improvements very much. I see builders standing there literally for centuries, instead of repairing the tiles right next to him.

 

[lax123]

Having a 6 leaf immortal game with V8.
Game is just a typical boring game where I can tech up and then crush every enemy with superior military units. Its even easier then usual as nobody is attacking me.

 

[SaMatra]

Sorry for being ingnorant and not properly searching first, but did you try lowering unit maintenance and upgrade costs to help AI maintain bigger army? Maybe have that just for AI? I have a feeling that early on AI has pretty alright army (which though he fails to use properly) while in later stages they just have few modern units and some ancient units like warrior armies, maybe if costs were lower AI would have bigger army and upgrade older units. Though I'd prever City States not have these bonuses, they are annoying with their units blocking paths as is already.

 

[Siesta Guru]

In this version... they're no longer trying to send settlers through me (great!) However, they might be undersettling their own territory, because it's much easier for me to expand into them now (not so good...)

yes, in v8 I also saw (in the one hgame I had) That AI does not settle that effectively as in previous version...

AI does not seem to be able to settle at all

Thanks for the feedback folks. Will definitely look into this settling issue for v9 when I can find some time to work on it. Might have ended up undershooting it a little in one of the last builds, because it was actually settling more in most of my test games.

so about my problem. and is only capital sity for AI player in turn 622 and like 2-3 setler in him capital but no oder tawn

Your near complete lack of settling is very likely because of your map/speed settings interacting badly with AI+, I've barely tested on both marathon and sea maps so far. If you prefer those settings, I'd recommend sticking with the vanilla AI for now until I figure out what's happening here. On settings like fractal with standard speed for example you probably wouldn't see this behavior (unless it is a mod conflict).

i tink to developer can add litel cheat for AI to settle more town and bild more unit and add 100x agresion vs human player for we have some fun in time need for developer made spart AI ty

Might introduce a small optional thing later to make the AI benefits bigger. They're not nearly as strong as in Civ 5.

Does the AI ever fortify in-place? I saw mentioned that one decision tree is to run and heal, but what about fortify in place?

Not really in combat situations except for inside of cities. There's an end-turn move, but it's super low on the priority list and will almost never be picked. No ability to tweak this either (also imagine its easier to make the ai worse through foritfying unless its done really well).

Yeah i agree found some balancing issues on prince its like ******ed hard played with some inner ring values and it seemed to fix it. They too op in the victories slightly for such low difficulty harder then civilization 5 kinda uploading my mod pack back up. Also would like to maybe work out a new combat system where units using resources get +2 attack for each resource controlled. but i would need a starting point on how it have to be calculated on the inside. Add little more fun have re-balanced resources too again coast more effective so AI settles it now.

Yeah it's a little weird how badly the game scales to higher difficulty levels. The prince AI isn't that much easier than deity.
Planning to do balance issues such as the coast one you mention in a balance mod that I'll release in some time.

my center 3 cities were unprotected with all the lux and still no attack while england had 3 archers and 3 warriors next to my city - I was 110% sure it was about to be captured cause england had 1 city...

This is interesting behavior, I was hoping to have solved most of this. Did you happen to be friends with England? And what difficulty are you playing on?

The AI doesn't seem to value repairing pillaged improvements very much. I see builders standing there literally for centuries, instead of repairing the tiles right next to him.

Yeah, this is a constant frustration of mine too. Can't find any way to improve this I've seen tiles remain pillaged from ancient to modern.

Having a 6 leaf immortal game with V8.
Game is just a typical boring game where I can tech up and then crush every enemy with superior military units. Its even easier then usual as nobody is attacking me.

That's a shame to hear. I hope it's a fluke. The AI should be quite a bit more aggressive than in vanilla.

Sorry for being ingnorant and not properly searching first, but did you try lowering unit maintenance and upgrade costs to help AI maintain bigger army? Maybe have that just for AI? I have a feeling that early on AI has pretty alright army (which though he fails to use properly) while in later stages they just have few modern units and some ancient units like warrior armies, maybe if costs were lower AI would have bigger army and upgrade older units. Though I'd prever City States not have these bonuses, they are annoying with their units blocking paths as is already.

It's something I'm considering for a balance patch, probably won't here, but still might. So far I'm trying to only touch game impacting aspects that are extremely impactful, and which will not really be noticed by players anyway. Maintenance is a bit of an edge case I think, in that it will also allow way bigger human armies. It's definitely a huge impactor though, especially on deity. You see them struggling with army costs at army sizes that aren't that impressive.

 

[cof125]

OK i'm finding AI falling down i have played with core AI again and got it working posting newer version with some fixes in it. I found how to get AI researching which helps them a a lot i put in AIfavoreditems for each leader a preferred tech for writing and any culture science based civ get education also played with base STD_Techs with some favored values seemed to work. Post it by tomorrow playing another game on quick mode and standard all game speeds work fine so far actually well quick they not fast enough and marathon as well. Island maps and fractal maps i fixed as well pretty good you can play with it again if you want.

 

[friday1st]

"my center 3 cities were unprotected wi....."
This is interesting behavior, I was hoping to have solved most of this. Did you happen to be friends with England? And what difficulty are you playing on?

- king and epic, 6 leaf
Yes, I was friends with england.
There was some odd behaviour from arabia aswell, they seemed to be preparing for an assault to my capitol leaf but just sat their units "close"(the hills) to my borders. I had one leveled archer parked in hill 2 tiles away from them. Only unit left in my capitol leaf as I pushed all my units to capture the free workforce from center and there it was , dem settlers.


I was playing quite ...in testing mode I would say.
Still learning.
Thing is that I have yet to finish a civ 6 game.
But thats not new - I probly played civ 4 for 10 years without finishing a single game.


I`ll have time to play as winter is here and scaffolding sux in northern hetmesphere.
I`ll post small updates here

 

[Siesta Guru]

OK i'm finding AI falling down i have played with core AI again and got it working posting newer version with some fixes in it. I found how to get AI researching which helps them a a lot i put in AIfavoreditems for each leader a preferred tech for writing and any culture science based civ get education also played with base STD_Techs with some favored values seemed to work. Post it by tomorrow playing another game on quick mode and standard all game speeds work fine so far actually well quick they not fast enough and marathon as well. Island maps and fractal maps i fixed as well pretty good you can play with it again if you want.

What did you end up doing to fix the water map settling issue? Just increase the min value for cities on naval maps or something?
Never seemed to me like the favored value on techs did all that much. They don't tech archery despite it being favored for example, and looking at the tech logs shows it doesn't add much to their scoring. What did you change here?

"my center 3 cities were unprotected wi....."
This is interesting behavior, I was hoping to have solved most of this. Did you happen to be friends with England? And what difficulty are you playing on?

- king and epic, 6 leaf
Yes, I was friends with england.
There was some odd behaviour from arabia aswell, they seemed to be preparing for an assault to my capitol leaf but just sat their units "close"(the hills) to my borders. I had one leveled archer parked in hill 2 tiles away from them. Only unit left in my capitol leaf as I pushed all my units to capture the free workforce from center and there it was , dem settlers.

Ok if you were friends then it makes sense. The problem here is that the military AI and the diplomacy AI basically have a mind of their own. The military AI saw that your city was easy to take and send an attack force. But when it got close, and it asked the diplomacy AI whether it was ok to go in, it said no because you guys are friends. It's a bit dumb indeed.
Not entirely sure what the arabia behavior is, considering they also send settlers, it's plausible they were trying to settle somewhere they couldn't really reach. Did you happen to have just settled the city on your borders?