Littlebob86
Prince
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2016
- Messages
- 332
Awesome siesta! Where would we find how to limit the amount of settlers each ai could have at any given time? I'd like to set it to 2 
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Siesta Guru
Prince
So I hope that this patch finally solves the 'settlers not actually settling' issue for good. Based on my testing it seems significantly better now.
Strangely, it appears the last issue that was still making them do this (there were many), was that under some conditions, the settler operation gave back that it had settled, without any actual new cities being on the map. Then after that, it would have to wait for a new operation to start, and it would go through all the motions again, like walking to a 'gathering point' again, possibly changing targets, only to then be scared off by barbarians again. It was a vanilla issue too, it just became so much more obvious here since it actually build a decent amount of settlers.
Anyway, please let me know if it does reappear for any of you.
@Onii-chan the issue was more that it build settlers at the start, with spots available. Then was too idiotic too settle with those settlers, and meanwhile all spots ended up being settled by others.
@Fakoleon If I understand you correctly, the AI doesn't fight at all? That's very strange. I've not ever seen any behavior like that so it could be a compatability issue, but based on that mods description I don't see what it could be. Plase let me know if the issue persists through new games and with v4 installed.
@ Siptah There are no different rules for AI settling than for you. The 'imma settle right on your borders' thing should already be significantly less likely here than in vanilla, but yeah it still does happen. I don't think it's really fixable atm though, at least not without changing the rules so that theyll neglect perfectly fine city locations too. I think I'd rather have them oversettle a little than undersettle in civ 6, considering theres almost no cost of these tiny cities.
@ rico12 There's actually a vanilla thing in there that makes tomirys less likely to declare wars, I'm not really sure why that's there. I'll probably remove it in v5. If you see any other leaders being less likely to declare war lt me know, they shouldn't really. I've only added things that make AIs more likely to declare war (except for long distance wars from v4 on). Them producing more settlers is intended, as it matches what seems to be the best civ 6 strategy. In v4, they should actually use them more often so that they dont have 3 settlers running around.
@Babarigo For v4 I've increased the desires for farms a little, let me know if you see this behavior again.
@maule The vanilla limit on settler operations (which ends up basically being the max amount of settlers out) is actually 1, Delnar had temporarily increased it to something like 16, causing crazy behavior, he later changed it back to 2. In AI+ v3 I had a limit of 2 if at war, and 3 if at peace. For v4 I've changed it to having a limit of 2 on king+ and 1 on anything below. It should still sttle more than in vanilla, which is intended, as in vanilla the AI barely expanded. In v4, the growth issue should be a little better, with them having a higher preference for farms.
@Evilillidan There's no easy config settings to make them better at it unfortunately
The war desire in AI+ is actually higher than in vanilla so your one test game where there was no war was probably a fluke. But yeah even though I feel the agressive behavior is stronger now, the AIs still rarely take over more than 1 or 2 cities from an AI at the same difficulty level. The fast healing of cities means that you basically need a significantly larger army than the defender to stand any chance, and that just doesn't really happen because all AIs produce units. Funnily enough it seems that AIs at king/emperor actually take over more AI cities than on deity, mostly because on those levels, not everyone has 50 units.
Strangely, it appears the last issue that was still making them do this (there were many), was that under some conditions, the settler operation gave back that it had settled, without any actual new cities being on the map. Then after that, it would have to wait for a new operation to start, and it would go through all the motions again, like walking to a 'gathering point' again, possibly changing targets, only to then be scared off by barbarians again. It was a vanilla issue too, it just became so much more obvious here since it actually build a decent amount of settlers.
Anyway, please let me know if it does reappear for any of you.
@Onii-chan the issue was more that it build settlers at the start, with spots available. Then was too idiotic too settle with those settlers, and meanwhile all spots ended up being settled by others.
@Fakoleon If I understand you correctly, the AI doesn't fight at all? That's very strange. I've not ever seen any behavior like that so it could be a compatability issue, but based on that mods description I don't see what it could be. Plase let me know if the issue persists through new games and with v4 installed.
@ Siptah There are no different rules for AI settling than for you. The 'imma settle right on your borders' thing should already be significantly less likely here than in vanilla, but yeah it still does happen. I don't think it's really fixable atm though, at least not without changing the rules so that theyll neglect perfectly fine city locations too. I think I'd rather have them oversettle a little than undersettle in civ 6, considering theres almost no cost of these tiny cities.
@ rico12 There's actually a vanilla thing in there that makes tomirys less likely to declare wars, I'm not really sure why that's there. I'll probably remove it in v5. If you see any other leaders being less likely to declare war lt me know, they shouldn't really. I've only added things that make AIs more likely to declare war (except for long distance wars from v4 on). Them producing more settlers is intended, as it matches what seems to be the best civ 6 strategy. In v4, they should actually use them more often so that they dont have 3 settlers running around.
@Babarigo For v4 I've increased the desires for farms a little, let me know if you see this behavior again.
@maule The vanilla limit on settler operations (which ends up basically being the max amount of settlers out) is actually 1, Delnar had temporarily increased it to something like 16, causing crazy behavior, he later changed it back to 2. In AI+ v3 I had a limit of 2 if at war, and 3 if at peace. For v4 I've changed it to having a limit of 2 on king+ and 1 on anything below. It should still sttle more than in vanilla, which is intended, as in vanilla the AI barely expanded. In v4, the growth issue should be a little better, with them having a higher preference for farms.
@Evilillidan There's no easy config settings to make them better at it unfortunately
The war desire in AI+ is actually higher than in vanilla so your one test game where there was no war was probably a fluke. But yeah even though I feel the agressive behavior is stronger now, the AIs still rarely take over more than 1 or 2 cities from an AI at the same difficulty level. The fast healing of cities means that you basically need a significantly larger army than the defender to stand any chance, and that just doesn't really happen because all AIs produce units. Funnily enough it seems that AIs at king/emperor actually take over more AI cities than on deity, mostly because on those levels, not everyone has 50 units.Siesta Guru
Prince
Awesome siesta! Where would we find how to limit the amount of settlers each ai could have at any given time? I'd like to set it to 2
There's no strict limit on the amount of settlers, but there is one on the amount of settler-operations, usually that one prtty much works as the limit. In v4, the limit on those operations is now 2 on king+ and 1 on the difficulties below. If you want to change that to a flat 2, remove this in core.xml:
<Row ListType="KING_OPERATIONS" Item="OP_SETTLE" Value="1" />
And change:
Spoiler :
Siesta Guru
Prince
It basically already doesn't. I've run about ~80 AI games without this change and only once did I see a land-unit based intercontinental strike be attempted (and the AI gave up before it even got halfway). There's literally no naval units based attack operation in vanilla. And for melee strikes, distances would generally already be above the limit anyway.
I might try to work on long range naval based strikes in a future version. But for now, these naval strikes were so extremely rare compared to weird, impossibly long attacks over land, that I think this is better for now.
Do you feel it's too much right now? I think it's rather reasonable that some more warmongery civs take out 2 or 3 states around the start.
Fakoleon
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2016
- Messages
- 115
Well I'm not sure what happen, but I tried with you new version 4, and it's fine now
AI build walls and fight back, thanks I have a game with v3 and Biao's Strategic Resource and Tech Tree Mod LITE mod
and I find it strange that AI doesn't really uses the archers and crossbows to attack...
AI has them (that's good), but they don't shoot... especially when defending in city! Weird...
(Sumeria and Scythia AI... but they do attack with their unique units...)
and I find it strange that AI doesn't really uses the archers and crossbows to attack...
AI has them (that's good), but they don't shoot... especially when defending in city! Weird...
(Sumeria and Scythia AI... but they do attack with their unique units...)
Fakoleon
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2016
- Messages
- 115
This seem to be what I had, try with new version 4, it worked for me
Hello Siesta,
I mostly play in multiplayer and enabling AI+ seems to cause a desynchronization in beginning of the second turn. What happens is when we pass the first turn all my friends are taken back to loading screen and their civs are switched with each other. Any idea why and is there any way to fix it?
Thank you for the awesome work, playing without AI+ in multiplayer reminds me of how good a job you've been doing with this mod. Keep it up!
I mostly play in multiplayer and enabling AI+ seems to cause a desynchronization in beginning of the second turn. What happens is when we pass the first turn all my friends are taken back to loading screen and their civs are switched with each other. Any idea why and is there any way to fix it?
Thank you for the awesome work, playing without AI+ in multiplayer reminds me of how good a job you've been doing with this mod. Keep it up!
Thank you Siesta!
I lost my first game with V.4 - Teddy smartly noticed that my warrior went away from the capital and sent his unstoppable force
And that was only Emperor difficulty
Good luck trying to sort this out without the dll
I did have Frederick try to invade me in my last v3 game (Emp. difficulty, epic speed on my custom "small continents" map) from across the ocean and he sent a sizable force (maybe 20 units total, mixed pikes, catapults, knights and crossbows) not just missionaries! I probably took out about 1/3rd of his army on the ocean with my navy but he was a trooper and didn't give up until the massacre when he tried to land them. So it appears that they can do it under the right circumstances, in this case we were both on our own small landmasses and I had absolutely horrific relations with him from befriending all of the nearby city states and the warmonger penalties from destroying Greece.
Other civs fought with each other on an off but nothing substantial other than a few cities on the border of Sumer & Egypt that changed hands back and forth a couple times. They definitely do better with war but they don't seem to have any significant goals beyond declaring war and throwing units at each other for a little while. I am able to get them to war more often and longer if I reduce the war weariness penalties but that affects the player too so I'm not sure if that's something you want to mess with or not. Hard to say if it makes it better or just more often. Most often this means there aren't many city states left by the end of the medieval era
I'll try a game with v4 shortly.
Still playing with v3, not V4.
Atm one of the biggest issue to me is the ai doesnt build (and thus use) builders enough, by FAR.
You can try this :
- starting era : latest (information I think)
- big enough map (used ynamp, but no need for so big^^)
- fastest speed just to not spend 20 hours testing, reveal all can also speed testing up
You can pretty much outprod, outgold etc. AI on deity while they have insane bonuses (especially since I use a mod to increase them). Why ? Because you make fully improved cities and the AI only improve 1-2 tile in cities with 10+ pple in them.
Ofc if the AI were to build builders instead of defenses while under attack that would suck. But the AI building so few while having so much land to improve and being at peace, sucks too because in med-long run it's the only way to have good prod/gold etc.
What I mean is that it's not logical that a deity games with so much bonuses for AI, ends up feeling like chieftain where your cities does 10x times better than theirs.
Screens below show it.
Is it "fixed" in v4 ? I noticed something about farm in changelog but imho the issue concerns mines/lumbermills as well.
EDIT : one another way to see it in screenshots (even if the tiles speak for themselves), is that I get 28pop city (starting from 13 at this era) while even an AI with 0 neighbors or threats still struggle at 16pop (starting from 13 too!). This is about food but problem is the exactly same with prod (and more prod means faster builders which means more food, and vice versa yeah^^).
Atm one of the biggest issue to me is the ai doesnt build (and thus use) builders enough, by FAR.
You can try this :
- starting era : latest (information I think)
- big enough map (used ynamp, but no need for so big^^)
- fastest speed just to not spend 20 hours testing, reveal all can also speed testing up
You can pretty much outprod, outgold etc. AI on deity while they have insane bonuses (especially since I use a mod to increase them). Why ? Because you make fully improved cities and the AI only improve 1-2 tile in cities with 10+ pple in them.
Ofc if the AI were to build builders instead of defenses while under attack that would suck. But the AI building so few while having so much land to improve and being at peace, sucks too because in med-long run it's the only way to have good prod/gold etc.
What I mean is that it's not logical that a deity games with so much bonuses for AI, ends up feeling like chieftain where your cities does 10x times better than theirs.
Screens below show it.
Is it "fixed" in v4 ? I noticed something about farm in changelog but imho the issue concerns mines/lumbermills as well.
EDIT : one another way to see it in screenshots (even if the tiles speak for themselves), is that I get 28pop city (starting from 13 at this era) while even an AI with 0 neighbors or threats still struggle at 16pop (starting from 13 too!). This is about food but problem is the exactly same with prod (and more prod means faster builders which means more food, and vice versa yeah^^).
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A quick question : since new version of the mod overwrite previous on disk, is it possible to upgrade to v4 and not restart a game from scratch (ie just reload a game that used v3 and it is now v4 used ) ?
That would allow to compare whats done by AI in unthreaten territories with v4 (compared to v3), especially using and old save like 30 turns back and compare 30 turns later (which is a lot at this era and speed). I would gladly post results back.
Or is the mod "embedded" in the saved games and changing them (v3 to v4) on disk has no effects once game is created?
That would allow to compare whats done by AI in unthreaten territories with v4 (compared to v3), especially using and old save like 30 turns back and compare 30 turns later (which is a lot at this era and speed). I would gladly post results back.
Or is the mod "embedded" in the saved games and changing them (v3 to v4) on disk has no effects once game is created?
bladex
Emperor
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2010
- Messages
- 1,358
but every single CIV does it not just the WM ones.
Morgawr
Civ Fanatic
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,235
I don't "like" that the AI takes out CS either on higher difficulties when they start with a small army of warriors. However it does make them more competitive and makes the game more challenging so I personally dont think that behavior should be changed.
ctudor
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2016
- Messages
- 52
Great project and keep the good work since Ai is the most problematic aspect of the game atm.
on a side note, is there a way to code city states to be really powerful. From what i saw in vanilla game play they are a bit better than barbarians although i saw barbarians ravage some city states). Considering they are mostly non aggressive, they don't do wonders, they don't expand, their military stays in its borders, would make more sense for them to be a bit smarter than the average ai civ, since their role is also very specific.
on a side note, is there a way to code city states to be really powerful. From what i saw in vanilla game play they are a bit better than barbarians although i saw barbarians ravage some city states
). Considering they are mostly non aggressive, they don't do wonders, they don't expand, their military stays in its borders, would make more sense for them to be a bit smarter than the average ai civ, since their role is also very specific.
I gave my CS additional starting units - a couple archers, a spearman, and a builder. I've also increased their starting strength. It has helped them resist attempts to conquer them in the early game. They also do a nice job of keeping Barbarians in check. Now if I can only find a way to give them Ancient Walls, I'd be happy...
