AIs and the Art of War

[VredianImperium]

"Size Matters"; the 40.1 player's guide is very helpful ^.^

Thanks!

 

[VredianImperium]

Is there any info I can provide that would explain Ham leaving this stack of troops just chillin' while I raze his southern most city, then waltz into his capital? It's been just sitting there since I declared war and is his largest stack by far. Note he was already at war with Charlemagne, but he hasn't even used it to attack the city it's sitting by..

Just basics
-Prince
-Giant
-30 civs including myself
-Snail
-No SM
-v40.1

Thanks,
VI

 

[Blazenclaw]

Trained Dogs (25).... I definitely recall that being an issue with AI stacks, but don't know if it's been fixed in the SVN ver; I would assume so because it was hampering the AI pretty strongly, but even if so I believe the SVN underwent some savebreaking updates so that's not a fix for this game.

The AI is also not amazing; while it's definitely been improved from baseline, the simple act of adding so much content and such means it is weaker than you may be used to, everything else held constant. Rule of thumb is to play two difficulty levels higher than you're 'used to' in vanilla civ4; so if Prince is your normal, try Emperor. Again it won't fix this exact scenario, but it'll have more units which means more likely to have proper defenders while also having a separate attack stack (which is what I might assume it's doing here, but do know very little of the AI unit code).

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm well aware of many issues that cause things like this and plan to address them in my AI overhaul project I've been caught in planning mode on as part of the unit rebalancing project I'm in at the moment. Stand by. For a while. Changes are pending that should address this kind of behavior.

 

[VredianImperium]

Rule of thumb is to play two difficulty levels higher than you're 'used to' in vanilla civ4; so if Prince is your normal, try Emperor.

I read that before I started this game, and should have heeded the advice. Does changing the difficulty midgame screw it up?

 

[Blazenclaw]

Does changing the difficulty midgame screw it up?

There should not be any hard errors from changing difficulty via the bug options midgame, though do note that because you've basically already snowballed yourself into a leading position it's not likely for the AI to catch back up. For example, here, it'll allow them to build more units faster and so hopefully get out of whatever loop they're stuck in after some number of turns sooner than otherwise, but won't change the fact that you've 11 cities to their 4ish.

 

[VredianImperium]

Was more thinking about the 25 other AI I haven't discovered yet lol. I stopped showing up on the "most advanced" civ list long ago, hoping they're closer to being my peer. Appreciate your guys' responses as always.

VI

 

[JosEPh_II]

Is there any info I can provide that would explain Ham leaving this stack of troops just chillin' while I raze his southern most city, then waltz into his capital? It's been just sitting there since I declared war and is his largest stack by far. Note he was already at war with Charlemagne, but he hasn't even used it to attack the city it's sitting by..

Just basics
-Prince
-Giant
-30 civs including myself
-Snail
-No SM
-v40.1

Thanks,
VI

The reason is v40.1 does not have the AI refinement of the current Git and/or SVN version available to it. Your game on v40.1 is now 300+ revisions behind what is available with the SVN or Git. The Team should soon start discussion about a new release to the public for those that don't want to use the SVN.

I will say this, once you use the SVN and learn it's basic and rather simplistic usage, you will never go back to being stuck using an Official release version that is almost a year old like v 40.1 is.

 

[VredianImperium]

I will say this, once you use the SVN and learn it's basic and rather simplistic usage, you will never go back to being stuck using an Official release version that is almost a year old like v 40.1 is.

You weren't lyin'. From the time you posted that to now I've got it updated through the SVN and up and running. Super simple, thanks!

One thing about the SVN Im a bit foggy on is will it screw up any current saves everytime I update it?

VI

 

[Blazenclaw]

One thing about the SVN Im a bit foggy on is will it screw up any current saves everytime I update it?
VI

There are very few savebreaking updates on the SVN; I think there was only one or two since 40.1 was released, there is significant effort placed in making sure that any updates that would cause saves to break are all done in a single update rather than spread around, and to alert people to the fact it's happening. And even then, nothing stops you from sticking on a pre-savebreaking update until your game is done ^^

I'd also recommend you check out the discord if you want some more behind-the-scenes or quick answers to questions

 

[hau]

Combat AI not working well at last SVN. SM on or off - doesn't matter)
Last night I set the game on autoplay, 1500 turns in total, middle ages were reached. Few cities were conquered in the early game, after that all wars were futile. The main problem is too many dogs and meaningless stacks consist of city guards.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Combat AI not working well at last SVN. SM on or off - doesn't matter)
Last night I set the game on autoplay, 1500 turns in total, middle ages were reached. Few cities were conquered in the early game, after that all wars were futile. The main problem is too many dogs and meaningless stacks consist of city guards.

Would you please give better details as to your Test Game Set Up Options, Difficulty level, Game Speed chosen, Size of Map, Specific Map, Number of AI. A simple screenshot in the Victory settings under the Settings Tab will show most of that.

Below screenshot is an example of this.

 

[hau]

Attached. More or less my standard settings except for higher difficulty and SM - usually I don't turn on this submod.
Maybe someone can say me which settings make AI stronger? Not only barbarian.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Combat AI not working well at last SVN. SM on or off - doesn't matter)
Last night I set the game on autoplay, 1500 turns in total, middle ages were reached. Few cities were conquered in the early game, after that all wars were futile. The main problem is too many dogs and meaningless stacks consist of city guards.

Known. Been working on some major restructuring of the war AI for about a year - mostly in planning and has not gone to code yet. It will take perhaps another year to get it into play I think.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Attached. More or less my standard settings except for higher difficulty and SM - usually I don't turn on this submod.
Maybe someone can say me which settings make AI stronger? Not only barbarian.

Jump your Difficulty to Emperor, Turn Off Peace among NPCs. Try C2C_World map.

The No Negative Traits, Start without Positive Traits, and Complex traits may have a conflict. @Thunderbrd will need to chime in on this. I do know that if you have the 1st 2 traits I mentioned ON and do not check Complex traits and Developing Leaders, then you will be playing without any C2C traits.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The No Negative Traits, Start without Positive Traits, and Complex traits may have a conflict

Shouldn't be conflicts, just a little different balance is all. Assuming Developing Leaders is on. As you say, with or without Complex Traits, without Developing Leaders, No Neg and Start without Positive is still No Traits at all.

 

[hau]

During 1500 turns of autoplay, I haven't any CTD. Really stable. Developing Leaders was ON.
I'll try this settings. Also, where located combat AI? I can try to modify it.

 

[Thunderbrd]

During 1500 turns of autoplay, I haven't any CTD. Really stable. Developing Leaders was ON.
I'll try this settings. Also, where located combat AI? I can try to modify it.

Combat and all other AI is entirely in the source files (C++)

 

[hau]

Combat and all other AI is entirely in the source files (C++)

Thank you. I hoped AI is on python, C++ never was my strong side. So I can only wait.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Thank you. I hoped AI is on python, C++ never was my strong side. So I can only wait.

The complexity of the AI is vast - which is why it's so easily broken in so many ways.