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ALC Game 13: Mali/Mansa Musa

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Sisiutil, Feb 13, 2007.

  1. patagonia

    patagonia Emperor

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    Incense isn't that great a tile to work, but a useful resource for trading due to its scarcity.

    3 interesting options for settling:



    Black circle's your fishing city, which is definitely worth settling at some point, just not as city number two. With two gems in the capital, I think you can afford to be a bit more aggressive with initial city placement. If you're leaning towards war with Kublai first, I'd settle black square 1S of the stone. That'll keep Isabella from encroaching too far towards you and have decent production, possibly a candidate for HE (especially if you turn on Spain later in the game).

    Alternatively, the plains hill marked in white between dyes and bananas is a good spot from what we can see of the map, and would force Kublai to expand west and away from you. However I think you need iron to make that a worthwhile proposition at the moment, so that could come as city 3/4.

    All that will leave some space between them and your capital, which can hold a junk city to grow cottages for the others.

    In terms of research, I'd be inclined to head towards iron if you're planning an early rush. skirmishers and chariots will only get you so far - you may need a sword or three to take Kublai's capital if he's founded a religion.
     
  2. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    ^^ I like those cities.
    I still think elephants are too good to miss (we have hunting!) : happiness ftw !

    If my desert city doesn't appeal enough, there is a plain tile south of the pigs that would be cool for an early city. It's not as good for fogbusting until the borders expand, but it's better for production and the elephants are in the first ring, just as the pigs = happiness fast, food fast, production fast.
     
  3. Rancid Sushi

    Rancid Sushi Last year's catch

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    You're between a Khan and a hard place. Don't you just love how those creative civs like to shove cities right in your face? You want the tower of money and the U of S but you also need to kill Chubby Khan. I say secure the stone first then settle patagonia's white square. It looks like a good science city from here (I'm too paranoid to download save files). Not sure if you wanna use Timbuktu for a lot of troop production so early, but you and the rest know better than me.
     
  4. kniteowl

    kniteowl Pirate Captain :P

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    IW is important you should be able to research it relatively quickly with those two Gem mines, I'd Research it after Writing so you can Build those nice libraries for Quicker research

    Creative Kubai in the South, There's gonna be a culture war... unless you just want to go to war and eliminate him if you war relatively early, if not then I'd go for the Stonehenge/Oracle Combination for the GPP to light bulb Theology and Divine Right, you can use the Oracle to pick up MC for your UB and if you get a GS after Theology & Maths but before COL/Drama, you can sling shot to paper for UoS Wonder.

    Settle Stone/Pig/Wheat First

    Cheers.
     
  5. Eggolas

    Eggolas Warlord

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    To "block and fill" or not, that is the question.

    Isa will undoubtedly not expand further north, so south is likely. The tile 1N of the wheat captures the pigs, wheat and stone and has some production. Taking that will probably give you time to fill in the fish/elephant to the east.
    If you head first for the fish, you may lose the center.

    As for war with your favorite Mongolian neighbor, whenever you are ready. He will be a real PITA.

    Isn't Manny fun to war with?
     
  6. Lance of Llanwy

    Lance of Llanwy King

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    Yeah, settle the stone. No worries, you have two gem mines and you're financial. Upkeep's not going to hurt as much as usual. Writing-->Iron Working sounds good, but a quick rush of chariots and skirmishers will work fine until you get swords for mop-up. He's creative AND he found a religion, his capital's culture is pretty scary, I'm sure....perhaps too scary for skirms and chariots...
     
  7. cabert

    cabert Big mouth

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    just bring 2 more and take it, if it's the only issue.
    I'm more worried about trading options and rexing > warring right now.

    I'd let the kahn build the shrine before taking it ;)
     
  8. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    If you lose with a start like this, you must be :smoke:ing! :lol:

    But, well, winning isn't the ultimate aim of this thread.
     
  9. NaZdReG

    NaZdReG Warmonger

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    wow they sure did goose up your capitol spot didn't they. its why I never move my initial settler anymore.

    if mongols are to the southwest, then I would settle either west towards that stone site, or north to get 2 fish etc. that is also one hell of a city site. I wouldn't worry about getting boxed in just yet, isabella is far away and mongols are the first target for your rush.

    NaZ
     
  10. Torvoni

    Torvoni Chieftain

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    So far this is a great thread and a great game. It is totally appropriate for Mansa Musa to be wallowing in commerce, which will most likely be used to run science at 100% as long as possible. As I understand the issues right now, the debate is between building city number two near fish or near stone, with city number three in the other location.

    Since settlers are built from food AND hammers, it seems like the fish site could eventually become a settler factory. Also it is coastal plus Financial which means even MORE commerce.

    The stone would greatly accelerate specific wonders, to the point of beating some Industrious civ to the punch. Since I play at a lower difficulty setting, I'm always able to choose and obtain almost any wonder at almost any time. At a higher difficulty setting this is not possible.

    Is either of these spots in great danger of getting snagged by an enemy AI? In my games I generally notice the really excellent city sites just in time to see someone else take them ... usually beating my settler by a few turns.

    If the next city is built next to stone, is it possible to start building a wonder there even before a road connects all the way back to Timbuktu?

    Is it feasible to chop and/or whip two settlers in rapid succession?

    I'm going to propose that we don't even care where the iron appears, because there will be Elephants for fighting, and Elephants are just as good as Macemen.

    Anyway ... how do you know which site to settle first? My guess is stone-wheat-pig followed by fish-elephant. Sometimes I have trouble sorting through the specific recommendations of the skillful players. From a simple point of view, a city is good if it has access to a resource, and a city is great if it has access to two or more resources.
     
  11. johnny_rico

    johnny_rico one more turn addict

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    In patagonia's post, you can see that Isa has that corn in the NW. I think settling near the stone is key or she will take it from you.
     
  12. KMadCandy

    KMadCandy giggling permanoob

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    i really like patagonia's spanish stonerville, it's settling towards your opponent which i like to do anyway, and a great city on its own someday.

    yes khan must die of course!

    i am too lazy to switch disks to load the actual save. but i'm going to give you a potentially needless worker nag: if you haven't yet, at least road those 2nd gems to lower the chance the jungle will grow on them. it's usually later in the game you don't have time to micro your workers so i'm probably underestimating you. but, you know me, i worry, and am little miss perfectionist builder.
     
  13. LucyDuke

    LucyDuke staring at the clock

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    If you want stone, go get that stone. Isabella will grab it, and you don't want to have to go through an extra war just to build your wonders. The maintenance isn't going to hurt too badly with financial and gems. It opens up the map to you quite a bit, too, in terms of fogbusting and plain old expansion. One desert and one peak is hardly a problem. Your fishing spot is probably safe for the third city, who's going to move in on it?

    Of course, I usually play on Noble... but that just means your Isabella's going to be even more of a twitch than mine. ;)
     
  14. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

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    :lol:

    Personally, I'd go for the pigs/wheat/elephants city that cabert mentioned (it's the best overall spot, imo). But if you're going to be wanting stone then I guess that could take priority at this point, though you might consider settling next to the wheat or the pigs to get things moving more quickly. The city wouldn't end up as strong as if you claimed both, but the initial advantage, in terms of high speed expansion to grab the best sites on this resource-laden map, might make it a worthwhile tradeoff. Those gems will give you the financial power to expand much more quickly than usual, so I'd take advantage.

    Also, whilst your grudge against the jowlman will need to be settled at some point, I'd wait to see how things play out before deciding who gets first beatings. I'm a big fan of the 'knock down the leader' approach (as seen in the last ALC), so if someone else starts to pull ahead, I'd consider going after them first instead.
     
  15. Heffling

    Heffling Chieftain

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    Really, what it amounts too, is what do you want to get out of your cities the most? Since we're looking at a war in our near future against Kubby, I would settle:

    2nd city: 1 NE of the corn to the NW of your capital. This gives two food resources for growing, elephants and hills for production, forests for chopping, and river land for commerce.

    3rd city: 1 W of the black city spot. This gives a slower growth with only pigs, but has stone for production and wonders, and a ton of grassland for cottages.

    Alternative for city 3, you could go for the white spot to put a counter pressure on Kubby and claim the horses, but because he is creative that is riskier.
     
  16. stuge

    stuge Emperor

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    I really enjoyed shadow playing the Toku game and it looks like this one's going to be fun too.

    Now, on to the dotmap.



    The pink dot is a great GP farm. Concentrate on getting the happy cap up, work the fishes, the jumbos, the hills and grassland/floodplain farms. Then add NE and Caste system.

    Upriver, green dot is a good military pump, and has perhaps enough oomph to snag you a wonder or two.

    The blue dot is great commerce city. Farm the rice, plant the spices, mine the hills and fill the riverbanks with cottages.

    And don't be too eager to rush Kublai early. You've got a good base to play peacefully for a while. Remember, he might get hemmed in, if there's not much land to the south and small empires make good allies, 'cos you'll be wanting to attack the big ones, before they get too big.
     
  17. Mr. Z

    Mr. Z Chieftain

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    Hi. Been lurking awhile. I've really enjoyed and learned from the ALC threads!

    I don't really see the point of the Stone city. What early stone Wonders are you going for? By the time you get stone hooked up, it'll be too late to safely go after Stonehenge or the Great Wall. You could probably get the Pyramids, but it's kind of a waste since you aren't going to be running a lot of specialists.

    Plus it's really far away from you capital. You can handle the maitenance, but still prefer not too. And it'll be tougher to keep your borders with enemy civs short since you will also be expanding to the S when you take on Kublai.

    I'd get Tuna Tusks settled first. Then rush and keep the closest Kublai city which appears to be in a good spot 1N of the rice.

    Z
     
  18. shadow2k

    shadow2k Emperor

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    This is what I would do, or pretty close to it. Green (I'd probably shift that one E to have both Ivory in that city), then Pink...but that blue dot...I'd move it 2 E of the Ivory down there (or even 1S of the Ivory, which is a much better spot eventually, but Kublai's creative would be a pain until you razed his city). On a river, on the coast, and 6 hills + Ivory. That could be your HE city, and easily build all the navy you should need when that time comes. Leaves you with a commerce city (for a bit later) to the NE of it that can use the spices as food.

    The stone? Who cares about the stone? Let Izzy grab it, then take it from her along with her 30gpt shrine in 3000yrs or so...you know, when you'd actually need the stone for your two wonders. Heck, maybe she'll even build some other wonders for you, not like she's going to be dropping hammers into anything other than them and missionaries. You don't need stone now, or any time soon...so why reach for it?
     
  19. ratrangerm

    ratrangerm Prince

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    I'd second not necessarily chasing Stone at this time, unless you are intent on building Stonehenge (Pyramids isn't necessary since you aren't planning t run SE). Since your neighbors are close, take them out first, or if they get boxed in, even better. You can always claim the Stone from them later when you get closer to the time you will be building Minaret and Sankore.
     
  20. Winston Hughes

    Winston Hughes Wrathful Warlock Retired Moderator

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    Excellent dotmap from stuge, although, if possible, I'd think about grabbing another city to the west (patagonia's white square?) before taking the pink and blue spots, to cut off Kublai and secure a decent chunk of the centre of the continent. Normally a jungle city would be too much of a drain on the finances at such an early stage, but I reckon you can afford to go for a civ3-style land-grab.

    Pink looks like the safest one to leave, so what about green-white-blue-pink (or is that too ambitious?). Whatever, I'd say expand like a madman, and forget about an early rush unless you start to get hemmed in.
     

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