ALC Game 14: Mongolia/Kublai Khan

[LucyDuke]

You don't need to vassalize Mansa, what techs do you need him to research for you?

You have Chemistry and Steel, that's more than enough for domination.

Turn research off and pump out CRII Maceman and upgrade them to Grenadiers. Add plenty of Cannons for the hell of it.

I think you just made a good argument for vassalizing Mansa.

With moose-tech, we can slide down research and use the spare cash to upgrade troops like mad. There's also less risk from the stagnating GME, if there's less cash being diverted to research. Turning off research altogether is a dangerous plan, IMO, but outsourcing it to Mali would be just fine.

 

[pigswill]

A factor to consider is that if Sisutil vassalises Mansa he gets half the land for domination; if he conquers Mansa he gets the lot. This might (or might not) be the difference between winning with one continent and having to launch an overseas invasion.

 

[willpax]

Regarding vassalizing Mansa: is it possible to release someone from vassalization and then declare war on them, if not in the same turn, then one turn later? So that, should we find ourselves a few % short of a victory, we can take it from Mansa then? He won't be a military threat, and, at that point, we won't care that Monty will be terribly offended at how we treat our underlings, right? Even the greater war weariness would be balanced by a quick war with overwhelming numbers.

 

[KMadCandy]

Regarding vassalizing Mansa: is it possible to release someone from vassalization and then declare war on them, if not in the same turn, then one turn later? So that, should we find ourselves a few % short of a victory, we can take it from Mansa then? He won't be a military threat, and, at that point, we won't care that Monty will be terribly offended at how we treat our underlings, right? Even the greater war weariness would be balanced by a quick war with overwhelming numbers.

not at all possible. there are three ways i know of to lose a capitulated vassal, even one you want more than anything to be rid of:
1. have somebody kill 'em off
2. they get (or lose) enough land/population to break the vassal/master ratio,
3. if they have a resource that you do not, you can demand that they give it to you in tribute. IF they decide to not give it to you, then that automatically puts you two at war.
4. edit-learned a new way - culture flip enough of his cities to break the vassal/master ratio

that's part of why vassals can be so frustrating sometimes.

If this game isn't over in 40 turns, I'll start to question sisiutil's sanity

if anyone who has ever read the ALC threads hasn't at some point questioned sisiutil's and/or your sanity, then they haven't been really reading.

but, i'd bet against you on the 40 turns thing. even though the trash game shows that my ability to judge just how long 40 turns lasts is waaaaay off.

 

[slaze]

Allright, I did some crude domination calculations. Maybe not perfect, but it's close...

Churchill and Bismark's land (no islands, just continent) will put you at about 69-70%, well over the existing 64 needed right now. And that's not counting Mansa's land if you vassal him, so the continent + mansa as vassal would give you something like 72-75%+, much more than enough. And, none of this is including the roman desert and outlaying lands, so, you could also go there.

It's also important to note that eliminating a rival boosts the Dom. limit, but i think it's something on the order of 1-1.5%

So anyway, put my vote in for vassalizing mansa, and moving right on to churchill. Longbows = good. Redcoats = bad. And for what it's worth, his HE is in Hastings.

The hard part is gonna be the economy. You're gettin another GM pretty soon but those are only gonna get harder and harder to get. I'm sure there's more than one way to deal with the economy, but here's some ideas:

You could move the capitol

You could whip all the courthouses you need until it finally crashes and switch to caste system and put merchants everywhere (churchill does have alot of farms)

You could just turn off research and kill everybody.

Allright, allright. easier said than done, but if you let him, bismark will get infantry. You have the edge now, but who knows how long it'll last. Just be quick. Separate your stacks. Let cannons be your numbers. Taking cities usually goes at the pace of seige anyway. And i wonder if it might be wise to cripple Churchill severely enough (it'd be great to get his capital in Coventry) get peace, and then go for Bismark right away only to finish Churchill later. at this point, who cares about diplomacy. I'd even love to see you fight with numbers against superior troops. It can be done.

I like the Astronomy pursuit; frigates can keep you lightly defended at home, and they take down defenses. What is it, five frigates take down defenses in two turns. very helpful. After that maybe head in the direction of rifling but never make it sorta thing. If you make it to assembly line you've gone too far.

 

[BlueSoxSWJ]

You definitely micromanage a lot more than I do, so this might not apply to you, but is it possible to mm your cities into producing a lot more gold? In a recent game of my own, I took out Germany far too fast and my economy crashed to 10% in order to break even, but when I went around and mm'd my cities, i managed to kick research up to 60% while in the green, at the cost of some growth and production. I can't check the save to see if you can do something similar (I can't find warlords anywhere, but CIV3 is available anywhere I look), but it might be a decent temporary fix until you can get courthouses up.

 

[cabert]

There's about 35 cities on the continent, almost all Buddhist. With a Grocer and a Market, that's over 50 gold. And it will take more that 40 turns. He's using cannons and infantry, with move 1. Even with two conquering armies, the paths covering all cities are longer than 40 squares.

OK, I must have let my own version of the game

Spoiler :

domination victory in 1358 AD for a 110K score, with loads of moves (including a switch to free religion instead of free speech ) , using mainly trebuchets, macemen and knights, then cavalries for a faster finish.

some details :
- I started with the save Sisiutil gave out after the roman war
- I traded with Bismarck for feudalism (vassals, here I come!)
- I used the great merchant for paper, and went for liberalism (got there first and took nationalism for free, If I'm not mistaken).
- I built NE in bibracte, HE in doublecoppercity, GT in Vienne smoke: move!)
- I upgraded some swords, built some more catapults, and declared war on Mansa Musa. He proved tougher than I first thought, but still capitulated after I had taken most of his cities. He was immediately friendly with me . I asked MM to research (?can't remember, gunpowder maybe?) something for me. He was slow, but since I made him research secondary techs, I could trade 2 or 3 times with him.
- I had traded a lot just before lib was in, to get a good value out of churchill before attacking him
- I started to churn out settlers out of vienne and the Sout Eastern city, to cover every possible tile
- I kept trading with bismarck until churchill capitulated.
- then his turn came. LBs are no match for cavalries
- I didn't finish off bismarck, I hit domination when the creative trait gave me the needed land. I didn't even have to use the culture slider !

influence my judgement.
However, with engineering, roads allow you to move 3 squares/turn. So in 40 turns, you can cover 120 tiles .
Of course, without vassalizing, it's a lot slower (enemy culture = slow going).

 

[Sisiutil]

Sorry for the delay, gang. I've got a new (thankfully temporary) assignment at work that keeps me busy all day and leaves me exhausted at night. I tried playing a little tonight and found myself actually considering giving Monty tribute when he demanded it, even though the worst he can do is park his caravels on my clams, which, now that I've written it down, sounds like something I shouldn't be admitting to in mixed company. Ahem.

More daunting still is the news on the next expansion pack. Sixteen more leaders?!? I'm going to be doing this forever! Though it seems most of you wouldn't object to that...

Anyway, please be patient, there may not be a round update until the weekend.

 

[Killroyan]

Take it easy Sisi. Hmm, almost sounds like a commercial, but then again I am saying it to a guy who wants a caraval to park on his clams Ahem... But real life is always more important so we'll be patient but waiting for the update.

The new expansion looks fun so far. And the Netherlands are in. Maybe finally a unique ship unit. That would be fun. Give me a ship in the middle ages with more str and more cargo space. But then again I just got warlords so I will hold of the expansion for a while.

 

[Rancid Sushi]

Sorry for the delay, gang. I've got a new (thankfully temporary) assignment at work that keeps me busy all day and leaves me exhausted at night. I tried playing a little tonight and found myself actually considering giving Monty tribute when he demanded it, even though the worst he can do is park his caravels on my clams, which, now that I've written it down, sounds like something I shouldn't be admitting to in mixed company. Ahem.

More daunting still is the news on the next expansion pack. Sixteen more leaders?!? I'm going to be doing this forever! Though it seems most of you wouldn't object to that...

Anyway, please be patient, there may not be a round update until the weekend.

...and I'll still be reading the ALCs. A combination of Lent and spring break have kept me away from the boards recently. 16 new leaders? I didn't think that was possible. I didn't even know there were that many great leaders in history. If they nerf praetorians in the next expansion and/or don't improve keshiks, I seriously won't buy it. Anyway, take your time getting the next episode up. I can't start playing CIV again until after Easter.

 

[Nials]

No worries, Sisiutil! Real life comes first

Only being a humble returning Noble player, I mostly lurk these ALC threads (I didn't play Civ4 for about eight months).

They have definitely given me a lot of insight and knowledge.

 

[Syndrome Zed]

Sorry for the delay, gang. I've got a new (thankfully temporary) assignment at work that keeps me busy all day and leaves me exhausted at night. I tried playing a little tonight and found myself actually considering giving Monty tribute when he demanded it, even though the worst he can do is park his caravels on my clams, which, now that I've written it down, sounds like something I shouldn't be admitting to in mixed company. Ahem.

More daunting still is the news on the next expansion pack. Sixteen more leaders?!? I'm going to be doing this forever! Though it seems most of you wouldn't object to that...

Anyway, please be patient, there may not be a round update until the weekend.

Bloody hell, I'll never have time to do anything else but Civ at this rate.

At least Monty can't park his sword on your banana, though. Take your time, and like everyone else said, let reality have its due. After all, we can all play shadow games while you're busy thanks to the previous saves.

 

[popejubal]

More daunting still is the news on the next expansion pack. Sixteen more leaders?!?

16 new leaders? Maybe they'll finally put together an Industrious/Philosophical leader (and balance it by making his unique building a Temple that doesn't produce any happyness.)

Take it easy Sisiutil. We know that we're not your only priority in life (even if we are the most important).

 

[BlueSoxSWJ]

Sorry for the delay, gang. I've got a new (thankfully temporary) assignment at work that keeps me busy all day and leaves me exhausted at night. I tried playing a little tonight and found myself actually considering giving Monty tribute when he demanded it, even though the worst he can do is park his caravels on my clams, which, now that I've written it down, sounds like something I shouldn't be admitting to in mixed company. Ahem.

More daunting still is the news on the next expansion pack. Sixteen more leaders?!? I'm going to be doing this forever! Though it seems most of you wouldn't object to that...

Anyway, please be patient, there may not be a round update until the weekend.

Oh sure, wait until I'm on spring break with nothing better to do, THEN get the work assignment that keeps you from updating the thread...

jk, take care of rl first.

 

[Uncle Istvan]

Sixteen more leaders?!? I'm going to be doing this forever!

Seems like it. And you didn't think this was a slave game...

 

[Rancid Sushi]

16 new leaders? Maybe they'll finally put together an Industrious/Philosophical leader (and balance it by making his unique building a Temple that doesn't produce any happyness.)

Take it easy Sisiutil. We know that we're not your only priority in life (even if we are the most important).

A temple that doesn't produce happiness can only work if they introduce Scientology as a religion.

 

[Syndrome Zed]

A temple that doesn't produce happiness can only work if they introduce Scientology as a religion.

I don't know, doesn't Catholicism deal mostly in guilt? And the Southern Baptists I spent 14 years around sure never seemed too happy thinking they were going straight to .

Now, if you're a man, those old school Mormons have some interesting ideas...

 

[manu-fan]

Seems like it. And you didn't think this was a slave game...

Yeah, let's just Whip Sisiutil to get him to do these ALCs faster

Cheers.

 

[bardolph]

Yeah, let's just Whip Sisiutil to get him to do these ALCs faster

Cheers.

Yeah, but if he's the unhappy citizen, he'll be the first to go!

 

[Whitefire]

Anyway, please be patient, there may not be a round update until the weekend.

Is that measured in aelf time?

Thats the last aelf crack I make. I swear.