ALC Game 14: Mongolia/Kublai Khan

[stuge]

Settle in place, moving the capital later on is no big deal and this city will be a monster later on. Early production from whipping, later from workshops, watermills and lumbermills.

Build scout -> worker -> military. Research agri -> AH -> mining -> BW.

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

Settle in place. This baby will make for a great place to whip in and be a pretty nice GP farm later with all that food. I mean....c'mon? Grassland cows, irrigated corn, fish? How likely are you to see that much food? If health becomes a problem, you can always bump compass up the priority list a little....

 

[NaZdReG]

VoU,

I agree on PoV. if he gets a library early enough it would cover his need to use the citizens. I still wouldn't move though. fish cows corn in the BFC is great for . if he moves 1N so he can keep the other camp, then he gains the 2 which would be great, and drop almost all of the water tiles.. another bonus I guess.

tough call sisuitil, waiting to see what you'll do here

NaZ

 

[oyzar]

the problem with moving the setler on the furs is that you will very likely get tundra in the capital and you have no guarantee for getting hills. So i would sa settle in place and tech ag-> hubandry while building worker->warrior or scout -> settler. Later you can whip in a fishboat for 1 pop though your not gonna need it anytime soon with that much food and only 6 in happiness cap(for now).

 

[oyzar]

Oh another thing this start dont have enough production to get Great wall, let alone other stuff.

 

[flamingzaroc121]

i would say 1 N or NW i know how much u hate being one tile from the coast . . . . . .

 

[pi0neer]

I'd settle 1NW. This position will let you keep all the visible land resources, and ensures the water tiles you do work will produce decent food and commerce. I don't advocate moving the capitol but as many others have pointed it out, its not difficult.

Since you have hunting as a baseline it would seem a waste not to use the gained commerce from working the 2 fur tiles.

 

[Elrohir]

Why in the world would you move 1NW? That would give you no less than three coast tiles, which, without a lighthouse, completely suck as they can't even feed themselves. And you give up the fish forever. (Unless there's an island out there, which is unlikely) All this to save one fur forest?

Unless the Scout reveals something extraordinary, just settle in place. Moving isn't worth the loss of resources and turns. That's my opinion, anyway, but I'm sure Sisiutil will manage a win anyway.

 

[DarkFyre99]

I'd settle one tile to the north. A forested plains fur camp is too valuable to lose by placing your city there, plus you get the fresh-water bonus from the lake.

Scout, naturally, goes north then north-west. Do you really have any other option?

 

[TRJS]

I will repeat to re-inforce what others have said.

Move the scout first. If nothing appears to aid deciding on settler. Move him West.

 

[pi0neer]

I see your point about the water tiles. Move the scout and see what there is to be seen. Unless there is something very attractive out W, settle in place.

 

[Kietharr]

From what I can see here, settle in place and make another scout, then work on a worker. Research agriculture and fishing, then depending on what your scouts have found, either animal husbandry (if you are alone, let's hope not!) or BW. With BW whipping that city will make up for the subpar sheilds, by then you should also have a decent production city up and running with the food from your capital building your settlers quickly. Once the scout has made his initial move better judgement can be made.

 

[carl corey]

First: good luck choosing again from the myriad of suggestions.

Second: move the scout (1N - 1NW) and let's start the discussion again. I like the idea of moving 1N or 1NW with the Settler. 1N keep both Fresh Water (from lake) and access to coast (so lighthouse), while 1NW might pick some more useful land tiles. I'm not too fond of having so many water tiles in the capital and you do have only one seafood source that you can't even work. Better IMO to move and build a camp on both furs.

Also, with a little luck after Agriculture -> AH you'll have horses nearby and will be two techs away from your UU & UB. I haven't used the Keshiks too much in my own game, but when I did they performed pretty well. I'd love to see a more extensive use.

By the way, I'd keep the forests just to have some direct production if needed. You have enough food to whip (whether you go for city with fish or not), so chopping can wait.

 

[Validator]

One argument against moving W, NW or N before settling is that those cities would likely need to work the corn tile. If you settle-in-place then that city could use the fish and cows for food, so another city founded to the W or NW of the corn could work the corn.

Settling-in-place seems like the best option. Especially if you don't want to go through several iterations of move, post, discuss before settling. Of course if you do that we could probably reach 10 pages of posts before the capital is settled.

 

[Mannu]

I think you have to settle in place. You have a bunch of bad choices.

Settle 1NW.
Cons: 3 coastal tiles with no ability to build a light house. Lose the fish.

Settle 1N.
Cons: Lose the fish.

Settle 1W.
Cons: Lose the fish and maybe the Cow. Settle on the Furs.

Settle in Place.
Cons: Settle on the Furs.

It appears that settling in place is the least bad choice, plus you won't lose a turn so do it... after we see what the scout sees.

 

[Sisiutil]

Round 1: 4000 BC to 3970 BC

Yes, a very short round. I decided to have a bit of a look-see before settling.

I moved the Scout first, north and then northwest:

That didn't reveal anything too helpful, unfortunately:

I decided not to stop there and post since it wouldn't have aided the discussion at all. So I had to decide right away on whether I'd be settling in place or not.

I decided not to, for several reasons. I didn't like all those water tiles (including 3 ocean) for the capital, with only one seafood resource. Yes, I could move the capital later on, but I hate having to do that. It's a waste of hammers at a time in the game when they're most precious, I tend to find. Furthermore, the more water tiles there are, the less chance there is of a strategic resource appearing in the capital's fat cross.

Also, Mongolia does not start with Fishing and it's unlikely that I'll be pursuing that tech for quite some time, so the fish tile would be unused for several turns, even rounds. The lack of hills for long-term production also bothers me.

And besides, I rarely move the Settler. Why not do something different?

Interesting--no resources, but some hills, and a hut. Well, I then decided I may as well go to the next turn and move the Scout to get more information before making a decision. I moved him 1W and then 1NW to maximize the tiles revealed:

VERY interesting! Elephants! And a blue circle too, which the game is better about, I've noticed, since the AI improvements in the patch. The blue circle site would keep the corn, gain the elephants and would be on a river for +2 health and trade. It has 2 plains hills and 1 grassland hills along with 4 forests minimum for chopping. There are plenty of riverside tiles for either irrigation or for cottages, for either economy type. It would also leave the southeastern-most fur tile available for a later city site with minimal overlap.

(Yeah, I know a lot of you are recommending not settling on that forested fur tile, but face it, it's the only way to work the fishies. The blue city site would at least allow me to chop that forest for a few hammers.)

However, if I settle there then I lose another turn, and I think that would do in the Great Wall/Pyramids gambit--though I have to admit I'm not that attracted to it with Kublai; a Philosophical leader is better for that type of thing, I find. Also, I don't know at this point what's in the 6 western tiles of the blue circle's fat cross.

So whaddya think?

 

[kniteowl]

If you decide not to settle on the fur for the fish in the future, I'd save 1 turn and settle 1S of the settler's current location for the corn, both furs, a few hills to work and the goody hut and still be a Coastal Capital that could possible benefit form Better Trade Routes in the future .

If you want to go the risky path, inland and settle on blue circle for corn/elephants, you lose an extra turn and losing 2 turns on Monarch would put you at a significant disadvantage plus you don't know the other 6 unexplored tiles, you might be unlucky and get a peak or desert tile in one of the hidden 6. The 3 Hidden tiles in your Blue Circle fat-cross appear to be 2 plains-hills and a grassland tile from observation.

Edit: there's also the option to settle 2 tiles east of settler's current location for corn/cows/2 furs, Fresh Water from Lake and is also a coastal city, but it doesn't have any hills for production.

 

[Validator]

It's my understanding that the blue circle locations are based on the tiles that have been revealed and don't give you any information about the unrevealed tiles. That blue circle is likely there because both the ivory and corn would be in its BFC. Without knowing what's in the tiles to the west settling there is a bit risky as it might only have 1 food resource which would make working the hills and all those plains tiles a bit difficult. At this point I think you're either going to have to take a chance on settling or continue moving the settler to find out what's hiding in the west.

 

[oyzar]

If you had just setled on spot you could have had your second city in the circle...

 

[Katsin]

elephants... meh. Elephants are great in game and all, but I was hoping for a good keshik rush. A beeline to constuction should do it for you.

Khan: "Tremble before the wrath of my... floppy-eared pachyderms!"