ALC Game 18, Take 2: Spain/Isabella
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
Hackapell
Rhetorician
Yay for the Crusades and inqiusition to come! 
Settle in place. There's no reason to panic about the useless coast tile. You're going to run specialists in madrid or if you go CE, that will be the last tile you'll work. If you want to see whether or not there's seafood, move the warrior 1W. Also, go for Christianity instead of an early religion so you can focus on the conquering part of Izzy
Good luck! I'll be watching!
Settle in place. There's no reason to panic about the useless coast tile. You're going to run specialists in madrid or if you go CE, that will be the last tile you'll work. If you want to see whether or not there's seafood, move the warrior 1W. Also, go for Christianity instead of an early religion so you can focus on the conquering part of Izzy
Good luck! I'll be watching!
petey
Prince
I still think it's worth it to make the run for Polytheism, but if you want to hook up the Gold earlier, you'll probably get Judaism anyways and do so before Happiness becomes a real issue, so that would work too.
The AI tends to build the Great Wall pretty fast and barbs can come quickly at Emperor, so I'd say take slobberinbear's tech order, but switch Masonry and AH and chop the Great Wall before your Settler. That slows down your expansion, but it ensures that all the barbs that come gunning for you end up heading towards the AI instead.
The AI tends to build the Great Wall pretty fast and barbs can come quickly at Emperor, so I'd say take slobberinbear's tech order, but switch Masonry and AH and chop the Great Wall before your Settler. That slows down your expansion, but it ensures that all the barbs that come gunning for you end up heading towards the AI instead.
IMHO, there are three capital placement options, settle in place, 1SW, or 1SE of the starting location.
in place pro:
- doesn't lose a turn.
- good location, no surprises.
con:
- not next to river = 8 less base hammers when levee comes around.
1SW pro:
- doesn't lose a turn.
- gets the gold and still get the mystery hidden resource spot 1N of starting location.
- next to river.
con:
- might get some desert squares in the west.
- lose the pig and several grassland squares.
- one less workable floodplain .
1SE pro:
- still gets the gold, the pig, and the mystery spot in the BFC.
- next to river, and gets two more squares next to river from what I can see.
con:
- one less forest to chop, one less floodplain to work on.
- loses a turn.
- get more plains than grassland, food might be an issue.
I would settle 1SE because I am really obsessed with the levee benefits.
in place pro:
- doesn't lose a turn.
- good location, no surprises.
con:
- not next to river = 8 less base hammers when levee comes around.
1SW pro:
- doesn't lose a turn.
- gets the gold and still get the mystery hidden resource spot 1N of starting location.
- next to river.
con:
- might get some desert squares in the west.
- lose the pig and several grassland squares.
- one less workable floodplain .
1SE pro:
- still gets the gold, the pig, and the mystery spot in the BFC.
- next to river, and gets two more squares next to river from what I can see.
con:
- one less forest to chop, one less floodplain to work on.
- loses a turn.
- get more plains than grassland, food might be an issue.
I would settle 1SE because I am really obsessed with the levee benefits.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
I suggest you make the capital the gold city, and then found the ocean city as your second.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Been meaning to have a go at emperor for a while so I think I'll shadow this one.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 1: 4000 BC to 2825 BC
As recommended, I moved the Warrior 1 tile east to check out the terrain over there:
That was very helpful. I was very tempted to follow tempuraki's suggestion of settling 1SE of the Settler's current position, but this nullified that idea, as I would be 1 tile from the coast and with 2 weak water tiles in the capital's BFC. So I decided to settle in place:
As you'll see and I think everyone will agree, this turned out to be the right decision.
I decided to forgo the early religion this time around. We did that in the previous Isabella game. This time we're looking to highlight the UU and UB, so I'm taking more of a warrior's path. So I started by researching Mining to get the gold on-line and to tech towards Bronze Working and Iron Working (though not in that order, I'm not Rome, after all!). The first build in Madrid was a Warrior while the city grew to 2 pop.
As my Warrior explored to the northeast, my borders eventually expanded and popped that tribal village. Lo and behold, I got one of the techs on our shopping list:
Sweet! If we want to build the Great Wall, we can start it anytime.
On that same turn, my Warrior (in the northeast, remember) me the first of my neighbours:
Hmmm. Praetorians and he's Industrious and Imperialistic now, too. That means he can expand quickly and rival me for any wonders I pursue. As you'll see, however, the map may work in my favour, giving me a chance to thwart him in both of those regards.
My Warrior found a hut that was just out of reach of Augustus' Scout, who was stuck two tiles away in the jungle while I was right next to it. Sisiutil's astounding ALC hut luck continues to hold:
Aces. Gotta love that.
Meanwhile, from the south approached my next neighbour:
It seems appropriate that Portugal should be right next door to Spain. And when I say right next door, I mean right next door. Lisbon is, I think, exactly 9 tiles south and 2 west of Madrid. Does this mean Joao has to die? Oh, I think it does. And from what I've heard about Joao on the boards, he's a back-stabbing scum-bucket who richly deserves intimate acquaintanceship with Isabella's ultra-promoted Trebuchets.
In 3700 I completed my first honestly-researched tech:
I then started researching Bronze Working.
A couple of turns later my Warrior completed and Madrid grew to 2 pop, so it was time to start on the Worker. I assigned my 2 citizens to work the 2 flood plains tiles. In retrospect, this was a bit sloppy on my part. I think I should have had one citizen work the unimproved gold hill, which would have yielded 2 commerce instead of 1 to accelerate research a bit, and the hammers would have accelerated the build of the Worker thanks to the Expansive trait. What can I say, I don't usually play Expansive leaders--it's not one of my favourite traits--and I fell into a habit I usually follow in other games. Micromanagement is also, as many of you have pointed out in the past, not one of my strong points. You can learn from my mistakes as much as you can from my successes.
As I said, Portugal is very close by:
When you can see your own borders in the same standard viewing-level screenshot as a rival's, you're very close. Too close for comfort, in my opinion. Joao is Expansive and Imperialistic, meaning he could REX like crazy, even more than Augustus, thanks to having accelerated builds of both Workers and Settlers. So I think that also points in favour of rushing him ASAP.
Okay, I hope you're sitting down. Actually, I can't imagine that you're not, since you're at a computer. Remember the hut luck I had in the Kublai game? Well, it's back:
This is getting embarrassing. Do I even need the tech-stealing capabilities of a Great Spy now? Granted, Sailing wasn't on our early wish list, but it's certainly nice to have.
Now if that wasn't lucky enough, get this: if you look closely in the screen shot, you can see a Roman Scout at upper right. He's standing right next to the tribal village tile, healing from a barb animal attack. That's right, Augustus left him to heal rather than moving to pop the hut. Sometimes the AI's absurd behaviour, even with all the improvements they've put into it, boggles the mind.
This just highlights the big advantage a human has over a computer, I think. It's hard for the computer to take big, potentially costly risks. It does numeric calculations and follows pre-set rules. A human, however, can and regularly does break rules, disregard the odds, act counter-intuitively, and take huge chances. If you keep that in mind, you can almost always beat the computer. Which is not to say it's easy, of course, just possible.
Shortly thereafter I finished researching Bronze Working and changed civics:
Another thing I have to remember to do. I'm so used to not changing civics just because a new one becomes available that I sometimes forget to adopt Slavery once I finish Bronze Working! Then several turns later I wonder why the whip button is grayed out.
Copper did not appear in Madrid's BFC. There are a couple of sources around, but neither is exactly right next door, and the closest one has a problem. But you'll see that in the map, which I'll post towards the bottom of this update.
With several other techs on our shopping list in place and no copper convenient, I decided to go after Animal Husbandry. I need it to pasture the pigs anyway. While I waited for it, I built two more Warriors in Madrid. One went east to do some further exploration because the fractal map generator has given me a very unusually-shaped land mass. He can also serve as an escort for my first Settler. The next Warrior remained in the capital to act as its protector.
Turns out I do have horses nearby--in fact, they're right in Madrid's fat cross! Though not in the spot where we all would have expected them to be:
Interesting. Once again, settling in place pays off. If I had moved 1SE, I would have missed out on the horses. 1 SW as VoU suggested would have kept the horses, but my instinct that there was no seafood off that part of the coast proved correct.
I'd be amazed, frankly, if iron now appeared in that bare grassland tile 1N of Madrid. I've never seen a capital with 2 early strategic resources in its BFC--not one that belonged to a human player, anyway. Is the RNG ever that kind, even to the AI? If there's anything on that tile, I'm betting it's a later resource like uranium, but more likely now, I think, is sweet f-all.
Here's a look at the map as explored thus far:
Yet again, this is why I have a love-hate relationship with fractal maps. What an interesting land mass, much more so that the typical big fat blob you get from continents maps.
First off, there's plenty of good land around, especially to my northeast. The only concern is a lack of food right in the middle of that part of the land mass, but irrigating along the rivers would make up for that. There's also a good mix of resources, including a couple of early happy resources (gold and gems) and calendar resources (sugar and dye).
As I posited early on, fractal maps are often parsimonious with seafood, hence my gut instinct to not pursue a coastal capital. There's still room for a fishing/sugar village 3 tiles north of Madrid. Possible Moai Statues city, what with 10 coastal tiles and 1 ocean.
As to copper, there are two locations, neither of them right next door, but within potential reach. The NE one looks most attractive despite the distance. It can go 1NE of the gems and claim them, the copper, and the fish and still have some hills to work for production. The copper due east is problematic because of food issues. To work the corn as well as the copper I'd have to place a city right on top of the sugar, which seems a waste of its +2 food (though I think settling on top of it would yield +1 food, am I right?). If there's no seafood south of that copper tile--which my Warrior will reveal on the next turn--then I think the best location would probably be 2W of the sugar, despite the 3 peaks in the BFC.
Remember I said it may be possible to thwart Augustus' Imperialistic and Industrious traits. First off, both marble and stone are within reach if we want to beat him to certain wonders. A city 2W of the clams can claim the marble as well as 4 flood plains--very nice. A stone city is a little tricker to locate, since the only spot that allows the stone and horses to be claimed is right on top of the pigs, which is naff. But the northern cities I've specified (fish-copper-gems, stone-pigs, sugar-sugar-fish) Don't leave much room for a decent horse city. It will have plenty of overlap, that's for sure. I look forward to your dotmaps; the city sites I've specified may be way off, after all.
As for Augustus' expansion capabilities, the fractal map generator has given us a chokepoint--that land-bridge where the corn is, which can also act as a very convenient canal city. That location, however, has certain problems. First off, it's much closer to Augustus than to me, making it likely that if he has to expand in that direction, he'll beat me to it. Second, the site doesn't have much going for it besides the corn, making it a relatively low priority aside from its blocking potential. I could go for the copper-claiming site on top of the sugar, but that loses the canal capabilities. I could put a fort 1W of the corn, though.
One other point of interest:
The land mass seems to continue east of Rome and southeast of Portugal (on that spit of land SE of the mountain range E of Lisbon). How far the land goes on is hard to tell at this point, of course. There's also another branch of land to the far NW, blocked by a peak. Popping Sailing from that hut may prove especially fortuitous, since Galleys may be needed for further exploration and expansion.
As I said, a very interesting map with its own set of challenges. Should be fun!
Now, on to the decision points.
Research: Does The Wheel come next, or should I go after Monotheism and Judaism now? No one on our land mass has a religion yet, so getting one soon could be beneficial diplomatically. I think The Wheel takes precedence, however, in order to get the horses hooked up. Then I could go after Polytheism and Monotheism with the gold accelerating research. (Buddhism and Hinduism, by the way, have both been founded elsewhere). Or is it getting too late to snag Judaism now? Perhaps we should plan for Confucianism or Theology instead? The Oracle is a possibility if I get the marble site going soon.
Builds: The Great Wall? Or Settlers? If I assume that Rome and Portugal are the civs within early reach; and if I assume that I'm going to terminate Joao with extreme prejudice because he's just too close for comfort; then that leaves Augustus for tech trading, which he won't if there's only the two of us. Infiltrating Rome with a Great Spy, though, will let me steal techs to my heart's content for a long time.
On the other hand, I'm on a land mass with two Imperialistic civs who can out-REX me with their hands tied. There are some good city sites to be claimed, but I'll have to rush to do it. I think the SE marble-clam-flood plain site and the NE gems-fish-copper site are priorities, and Joao and Augustus could beat me to either one if I spend several turns on the Great Wall instead of expanding. (And I don't think I'd have the stone hooked up in time to help with the GW; it's just too far away.) Building two Settlers as well as Workers and Chariots for protection, however, could mean that I lose the GW.
War: Fortunately neither of my neighbours are Protective this time! Rome, I think, is too far away to rush. Unfortunately that means Augustus will likely have Praetorians if and when I do go after him. A war with Rome may have to wait until the UB is available. As I keep saying, I really think Joao has to die (everyone tells me he's a back-stabber anyway). That means copper at least, possibly iron as well, which brings up the question, when and how do I research/obtain IW?
I look forward to your insights. The saved game file is below.
As recommended, I moved the Warrior 1 tile east to check out the terrain over there:
That was very helpful. I was very tempted to follow tempuraki's suggestion of settling 1SE of the Settler's current position, but this nullified that idea, as I would be 1 tile from the coast and with 2 weak water tiles in the capital's BFC. So I decided to settle in place:
As you'll see and I think everyone will agree, this turned out to be the right decision.
I decided to forgo the early religion this time around. We did that in the previous Isabella game. This time we're looking to highlight the UU and UB, so I'm taking more of a warrior's path. So I started by researching Mining to get the gold on-line and to tech towards Bronze Working and Iron Working (though not in that order, I'm not Rome, after all!). The first build in Madrid was a Warrior while the city grew to 2 pop.
As my Warrior explored to the northeast, my borders eventually expanded and popped that tribal village. Lo and behold, I got one of the techs on our shopping list:
Sweet! If we want to build the Great Wall, we can start it anytime.
On that same turn, my Warrior (in the northeast, remember) me the first of my neighbours:
Hmmm. Praetorians and he's Industrious and Imperialistic now, too. That means he can expand quickly and rival me for any wonders I pursue. As you'll see, however, the map may work in my favour, giving me a chance to thwart him in both of those regards.
My Warrior found a hut that was just out of reach of Augustus' Scout, who was stuck two tiles away in the jungle while I was right next to it. Sisiutil's astounding ALC hut luck continues to hold:
Aces. Gotta love that.
Meanwhile, from the south approached my next neighbour:
It seems appropriate that Portugal should be right next door to Spain. And when I say right next door, I mean right next door. Lisbon is, I think, exactly 9 tiles south and 2 west of Madrid. Does this mean Joao has to die? Oh, I think it does. And from what I've heard about Joao on the boards, he's a back-stabbing scum-bucket who richly deserves intimate acquaintanceship with Isabella's ultra-promoted Trebuchets.
In 3700 I completed my first honestly-researched tech:
I then started researching Bronze Working.
A couple of turns later my Warrior completed and Madrid grew to 2 pop, so it was time to start on the Worker. I assigned my 2 citizens to work the 2 flood plains tiles. In retrospect, this was a bit sloppy on my part. I think I should have had one citizen work the unimproved gold hill, which would have yielded 2 commerce instead of 1 to accelerate research a bit, and the hammers would have accelerated the build of the Worker thanks to the Expansive trait. What can I say, I don't usually play Expansive leaders--it's not one of my favourite traits--and I fell into a habit I usually follow in other games. Micromanagement is also, as many of you have pointed out in the past, not one of my strong points. You can learn from my mistakes as much as you can from my successes.
As I said, Portugal is very close by:
When you can see your own borders in the same standard viewing-level screenshot as a rival's, you're very close. Too close for comfort, in my opinion. Joao is Expansive and Imperialistic, meaning he could REX like crazy, even more than Augustus, thanks to having accelerated builds of both Workers and Settlers. So I think that also points in favour of rushing him ASAP.
Okay, I hope you're sitting down. Actually, I can't imagine that you're not, since you're at a computer. Remember the hut luck I had in the Kublai game? Well, it's back:
This is getting embarrassing. Do I even need the tech-stealing capabilities of a Great Spy now? Granted, Sailing wasn't on our early wish list, but it's certainly nice to have.
Now if that wasn't lucky enough, get this: if you look closely in the screen shot, you can see a Roman Scout at upper right. He's standing right next to the tribal village tile, healing from a barb animal attack. That's right, Augustus left him to heal rather than moving to pop the hut. Sometimes the AI's absurd behaviour, even with all the improvements they've put into it, boggles the mind.
This just highlights the big advantage a human has over a computer, I think. It's hard for the computer to take big, potentially costly risks. It does numeric calculations and follows pre-set rules. A human, however, can and regularly does break rules, disregard the odds, act counter-intuitively, and take huge chances. If you keep that in mind, you can almost always beat the computer. Which is not to say it's easy, of course, just possible.
Shortly thereafter I finished researching Bronze Working and changed civics:
Another thing I have to remember to do. I'm so used to not changing civics just because a new one becomes available that I sometimes forget to adopt Slavery once I finish Bronze Working! Then several turns later I wonder why the whip button is grayed out.
Copper did not appear in Madrid's BFC. There are a couple of sources around, but neither is exactly right next door, and the closest one has a problem. But you'll see that in the map, which I'll post towards the bottom of this update.
With several other techs on our shopping list in place and no copper convenient, I decided to go after Animal Husbandry. I need it to pasture the pigs anyway. While I waited for it, I built two more Warriors in Madrid. One went east to do some further exploration because the fractal map generator has given me a very unusually-shaped land mass. He can also serve as an escort for my first Settler. The next Warrior remained in the capital to act as its protector.
Turns out I do have horses nearby--in fact, they're right in Madrid's fat cross! Though not in the spot where we all would have expected them to be:
Interesting. Once again, settling in place pays off. If I had moved 1SE, I would have missed out on the horses. 1 SW as VoU suggested would have kept the horses, but my instinct that there was no seafood off that part of the coast proved correct.
I'd be amazed, frankly, if iron now appeared in that bare grassland tile 1N of Madrid. I've never seen a capital with 2 early strategic resources in its BFC--not one that belonged to a human player, anyway. Is the RNG ever that kind, even to the AI? If there's anything on that tile, I'm betting it's a later resource like uranium, but more likely now, I think, is sweet f-all.
Here's a look at the map as explored thus far:
Yet again, this is why I have a love-hate relationship with fractal maps. What an interesting land mass, much more so that the typical big fat blob you get from continents maps.
First off, there's plenty of good land around, especially to my northeast. The only concern is a lack of food right in the middle of that part of the land mass, but irrigating along the rivers would make up for that. There's also a good mix of resources, including a couple of early happy resources (gold and gems) and calendar resources (sugar and dye).
As I posited early on, fractal maps are often parsimonious with seafood, hence my gut instinct to not pursue a coastal capital. There's still room for a fishing/sugar village 3 tiles north of Madrid. Possible Moai Statues city, what with 10 coastal tiles and 1 ocean.
As to copper, there are two locations, neither of them right next door, but within potential reach. The NE one looks most attractive despite the distance. It can go 1NE of the gems and claim them, the copper, and the fish and still have some hills to work for production. The copper due east is problematic because of food issues. To work the corn as well as the copper I'd have to place a city right on top of the sugar, which seems a waste of its +2 food (though I think settling on top of it would yield +1 food, am I right?). If there's no seafood south of that copper tile--which my Warrior will reveal on the next turn--then I think the best location would probably be 2W of the sugar, despite the 3 peaks in the BFC.
Remember I said it may be possible to thwart Augustus' Imperialistic and Industrious traits. First off, both marble and stone are within reach if we want to beat him to certain wonders. A city 2W of the clams can claim the marble as well as 4 flood plains--very nice. A stone city is a little tricker to locate, since the only spot that allows the stone and horses to be claimed is right on top of the pigs, which is naff. But the northern cities I've specified (fish-copper-gems, stone-pigs, sugar-sugar-fish) Don't leave much room for a decent horse city. It will have plenty of overlap, that's for sure. I look forward to your dotmaps; the city sites I've specified may be way off, after all.
As for Augustus' expansion capabilities, the fractal map generator has given us a chokepoint--that land-bridge where the corn is, which can also act as a very convenient canal city. That location, however, has certain problems. First off, it's much closer to Augustus than to me, making it likely that if he has to expand in that direction, he'll beat me to it. Second, the site doesn't have much going for it besides the corn, making it a relatively low priority aside from its blocking potential. I could go for the copper-claiming site on top of the sugar, but that loses the canal capabilities. I could put a fort 1W of the corn, though.
One other point of interest:
The land mass seems to continue east of Rome and southeast of Portugal (on that spit of land SE of the mountain range E of Lisbon). How far the land goes on is hard to tell at this point, of course. There's also another branch of land to the far NW, blocked by a peak. Popping Sailing from that hut may prove especially fortuitous, since Galleys may be needed for further exploration and expansion.
As I said, a very interesting map with its own set of challenges. Should be fun!
Now, on to the decision points.
Research: Does The Wheel come next, or should I go after Monotheism and Judaism now? No one on our land mass has a religion yet, so getting one soon could be beneficial diplomatically. I think The Wheel takes precedence, however, in order to get the horses hooked up. Then I could go after Polytheism and Monotheism with the gold accelerating research. (Buddhism and Hinduism, by the way, have both been founded elsewhere). Or is it getting too late to snag Judaism now? Perhaps we should plan for Confucianism or Theology instead? The Oracle is a possibility if I get the marble site going soon.
Builds: The Great Wall? Or Settlers? If I assume that Rome and Portugal are the civs within early reach; and if I assume that I'm going to terminate Joao with extreme prejudice because he's just too close for comfort; then that leaves Augustus for tech trading, which he won't if there's only the two of us. Infiltrating Rome with a Great Spy, though, will let me steal techs to my heart's content for a long time.
On the other hand, I'm on a land mass with two Imperialistic civs who can out-REX me with their hands tied. There are some good city sites to be claimed, but I'll have to rush to do it. I think the SE marble-clam-flood plain site and the NE gems-fish-copper site are priorities, and Joao and Augustus could beat me to either one if I spend several turns on the Great Wall instead of expanding. (And I don't think I'd have the stone hooked up in time to help with the GW; it's just too far away.) Building two Settlers as well as Workers and Chariots for protection, however, could mean that I lose the GW.
War: Fortunately neither of my neighbours are Protective this time! Rome, I think, is too far away to rush. Unfortunately that means Augustus will likely have Praetorians if and when I do go after him. A war with Rome may have to wait until the UB is available. As I keep saying, I really think Joao has to die (everyone tells me he's a back-stabber anyway). That means copper at least, possibly iron as well, which brings up the question, when and how do I research/obtain IW?
I look forward to your insights. The saved game file is below.
TeraHammer
Prince
What i would do is expand instead of building great wall. Chariots will beat possible barbarians, and they are a nice unit to have anyway. Though a great spy would be nice...
The gems - fish - copper city looks great, but I darent say if you should build that or choke the landmass first.
The gems - fish - copper city looks great, but I darent say if you should build that or choke the landmass first.
Fierabras
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,120
Well, you are Spiritual this time and you can switch anytime, so why switch straightaway? The Slavery civic has medium upkeep and is more costly, although it does not have an impact this early.
I think it is good to only switch when needed and it probably will take some time before you need to crack that whip.
LightSpectra
me autem minui
That's quite the capital you have there.
Go with the Wheel so you can start harvesting the gold, pigs and horses ASAP. Then make a run for Judaism.
Go with the Wheel so you can start harvesting the gold, pigs and horses ASAP. Then make a run for Judaism.
Hackapell
Rhetorician
I would definently settle the marble clam FP city, then head towards the Oracle and Confucianism. Why not christianity? CoL gives you Courthouses, which not only increase EP, but also allow you to run a spy specialist. that's how you could potentially get your Gspy, then let the oracle provide the Kong Miao in the form of a GP. Meanwhile, prep a chariot army, unless the RNGods smile upon thee and give you iron in the BFC (that would reqiure on your side for that one). Mabye squeeze in one more city before annihalating Joao and working towards keeping Augustus and his gladii hispanolae off your back.(iron-e at it's sweetest, eh? 
)
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to hear our "dear leader," president Bush, lie between his teeth. I'll be keeping an eye on this game though!
on your side for that one). Mabye squeeze in one more city before annihalating Joao and working towards keeping Augustus and his gladii hispanolae off your back.(iron-e at it's sweetest, eh? )Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to hear our "dear leader," president Bush, lie between his teeth. I'll be keeping an eye on this game though!
TRJS
Warlord
Odd thought but can forts act as canals? That would be handy.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
My attempt at a preliminary dotmap, just to visualize the city sites I mentioned.
The light yellow site is very up in the air at this point. The very next turn will clear that up. It all depends on whether there's seafood somewhere south of the copper.
Ochre won't be as bad as it first looks once all its flat land tiles are farmed. How else will I be able to work all its hills?
A lot also depends on where iron shows up. I'm betting somewhere in that otherwise-empty area in the mid-NE. Or, just to counter the hut luck I had, in that little belt of 5 difficult-to-claim-early tiles between Madrid and the light yellow city.
The light yellow site is very up in the air at this point. The very next turn will clear that up. It all depends on whether there's seafood somewhere south of the copper.
Ochre won't be as bad as it first looks once all its flat land tiles are farmed. How else will I be able to work all its hills?
A lot also depends on where iron shows up. I'm betting somewhere in that otherwise-empty area in the mid-NE. Or, just to counter the hut luck I had, in that little belt of 5 difficult-to-claim-early tiles between Madrid and the light yellow city.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Yes they can as of BtS, 2 adjacent tiles max. I'm not sure if a city tile would count as one of the two, though. But for this map, either a fort or a city on either tile next to the corn would act as a canal for ships.
Are you sure you're playing Emperor? With all those Goody Huts poping techs
I really think you should leave the GW till the Gilgamesh Game... but that's up to you.
Can you check if Joao' Capital is on a hill? Because Right now I wouldn't mind a Chariot Rush... very close and a 2nd Capital to boot.
Maybe I'm being a bit Causious but I Think Joao may expand quickly and we'll end up having what we had with HRE where we had and off wars for a long period of time, I just to finish him off ASAP.
Wheel seems like a good choice to hook up horses, then you can start build chariot to defend settlers when you expand besides those Settler/Chariot move fast so you can settle land more quickly except for the Jungle to the north.
Should we get a Religion? that's a tricky one but since the RNG gods were nice enough to give us Masonry, why not? Although Wheel take Priority.
After that Priesthood for Oracle and what tech should we pop? I leaning towards MC, but I'd rather prefer to Pop Machinery with that Gold in the Capital you'll be teching very quickly. It also gives you Crossbows to Counter Rome and puts you one step closer to a Engineering beeline. If you can get Machinery from Oracle, you may as well quickly build a forge nad assign an Engineer to Pop a Ge to bulb Engineering after you've researched construction for REALLY QUICK beeline lmao... I Gonna try an Engineering beeline for myself.
After Priesthood it's Pottery then Writing and after that We'll find out... I'm leaning towards MC just for the Machinery Slingshot with Oracle, It's possible with the Gold.
Wheel => Poly => Mono => Priesthood => Pottery => Writing
Depending how long you want to delay the chariot rush, either build a stack of them with only your Capital or settle calm/marble city 1st then rush... It's kind of to decide but both should work out well, it depend how big you window of opportunity is.
I really think you should leave the GW till the Gilgamesh Game... but that's up to you.
Can you check if Joao' Capital is on a hill? Because Right now I wouldn't mind a Chariot Rush... very close and a 2nd Capital to boot.
Maybe I'm being a bit Causious but I Think Joao may expand quickly and we'll end up having what we had with HRE where we had and off wars for a long period of time, I just to finish him off ASAP.
Wheel seems like a good choice to hook up horses, then you can start build chariot to defend settlers when you expand besides those Settler/Chariot move fast so you can settle land more quickly except for the Jungle to the north.
Should we get a Religion? that's a tricky one but since the RNG gods were nice enough to give us Masonry, why not? Although Wheel take Priority.
After that Priesthood for Oracle and what tech should we pop? I leaning towards MC, but I'd rather prefer to Pop Machinery with that Gold in the Capital you'll be teching very quickly. It also gives you Crossbows to Counter Rome and puts you one step closer to a Engineering beeline. If you can get Machinery from Oracle, you may as well quickly build a forge nad assign an Engineer to Pop a Ge to bulb Engineering after you've researched construction for REALLY QUICK beeline lmao... I Gonna try an Engineering beeline for myself.
After Priesthood it's Pottery then Writing and after that We'll find out... I'm leaning towards MC just for the Machinery Slingshot with Oracle, It's possible with the Gold.
Wheel => Poly => Mono => Priesthood => Pottery => Writing
Depending how long you want to delay the chariot rush, either build a stack of them with only your Capital or settle calm/marble city 1st then rush... It's kind of to decide but both should work out well, it depend how big you window of opportunity is.
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,431
I think the strongest move is an immediate Chariot rush to cheaply secure a big pile of land and plenty of production for Augustus.
After the Wheel, either try to get Judaism in Madrid or Lisboa, or do Pottery/Writing/IW first and wait for Christianity. Both equally good.
After the Wheel, either try to get Judaism in Madrid or Lisboa, or do Pottery/Writing/IW first and wait for Christianity. Both equally good.
uncarved block
Prince
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2006
- Messages
- 351
Are the Barbs that much worse on Emperor? Given that start on Noble, I wouldn't bother with the GW (a wonder I like), because defending your territory should be fairly easy-- Joao's territory won't spawn many, and neither will Augustus', leaving only one direction for them to come from. If you really want the Great Spy, aren't there less Hammer intensive ways to get one?
Will Chariots be enough to cripple Joao early? Otherwise, you need metal to take out cities, which may just mean rushing for that Bronze to the east sooner rather than later. Augustus may have elbow room, but what if he doesn't . . or expands toward you anyway? (I hear the Romans can be hostile chaps in this game.) Or maybe the Iron will show up close by and make all these concerns look silly.
Is it time to start looking at Monarchy already? I see two pre-Calender happiness resources, and it seems a long shot that Augustus won't claim that Dye. Here's hoping Portugal yields up some luxuries to the conquering Spaniards, eh?
Just some questions from the peanut gallery.
Will Chariots be enough to cripple Joao early? Otherwise, you need metal to take out cities, which may just mean rushing for that Bronze to the east sooner rather than later. Augustus may have elbow room, but what if he doesn't . . or expands toward you anyway? (I hear the Romans can be hostile chaps in this game.) Or maybe the Iron will show up close by and make all these concerns look silly.
Is it time to start looking at Monarchy already? I see two pre-Calender happiness resources, and it seems a long shot that Augustus won't claim that Dye. Here's hoping Portugal yields up some luxuries to the conquering Spaniards, eh?
Just some questions from the peanut gallery.
Hackapell
Rhetorician
Looking at your dotmap, I'd say that Red could be used for running some specialists: you have a surplus of 8 
there, and the marble could help in building the GLib. Orchre seems kinda useless and I am unsure whether you would need it at all until much later. Blue should definently be considered as your third constructed city, assuming you capture Lisboa. Magenta is a good city for later once you want to settle back with your continent and build wonders. I can almost guarantee that Pink-Red near Augustus will be his second city, so that's one to let him build for you.
there, and the marble could help in building the GLib. Orchre seems kinda useless and I am unsure whether you would need it at all until much later. Blue should definently be considered as your third constructed city, assuming you capture Lisboa. Magenta is a good city for later once you want to settle back with your continent and build wonders. I can almost guarantee that Pink-Red near Augustus will be his second city, so that's one to let him build for you.Similar threads
