ALC Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar

[ratrangerm]

I would settle on the Stone. You might be able to fit a city to the east that could claim the three Ivory tiles... true, there would be some overlap, but you'd probably be fine.

Then you can build a Work Boat to start. Tech path should probably be to BW first, so you can get Slavery for whipping, and then get Masonry so the Stone comes online. You won't need as many Worker techs for the time being as you start with Hunting and Fishing and you will have one Ivory in the BFC.

One thing about Wonders, and it's something I've had to learn when getting Stone: Don't go too crazy on a Wonder grab. Stonehenge would be all right so then you don't have to build Monuments, but otherwise, I'd stick to chasing Great Lighthouse and Colossus to take advantage of the seaside cities. Otherwise, I really don't see the need for other Stone-based Wonders, although that could change depending on how the game unfolds.

 

[fizbankovi]

well, well, well. an extra plains/river/jumbo, that means you get 1 more tile that is essentially a grasslands hill+ if you settle in place, or a second (and third?) city with the jumbos if you decide to move 1 w. food and production are the biggest issues with archipelagos, especially when you're financial and you get 3 commerce from coast before the colossus. and given your start, you have either both in your capital, or lots of food in the capital and lots of production elsewhere. if it were an option (and maybe it is, i'll get to it in a second) then trying to see what there is for food for second/third cities before founding the capital may pay off in the long run. lets say you move the settler to the hill now. this takes the turn and gives you 1 more move of the scout to see whats around you before you have to settle. while this means that you take an extra turn to settle the capital, you only really "lose" a turn if you have to move back to the original site. Settling on the stone loses nothing because you would have had to make this move anyways, and it allows you to find out whether or not you would screw yourself in the long run by settling in place regardless of where you move to (am i making any sense at all?). as much as i hate to lose a turn for the capital, you've played out some scouting with the settler in a previous alc or two iirc, and it worked out well for you too (again, iirc)

really, it may not matter much, but regardless of what you do, your capital is going to be monstrous, and your second/third/fourth cities are going to suffer for it. limited space makes for limited options and your ability to find out what your options are is limited by the necessity of founding that capital asap.

P.S. Wow, its good timing that you responded so soon after my first alc post or i probably wouldn't have been willing to add this little tidbit.

This sounds the best option. Scout more, worst case senario, u delay capitol 1 turn, but knowing that is ur best choice. Best case senario. It turns out settling on stone is a must. Also regarding the advice without adittional information... i think settling in place is better production even without maoi then settling on stone WITH maoi.

Have fun!

 

[Jet]

It seems to me that if I move onto the stone, I'm committing myself to building the Moai Statues in the capital.

1W with Moai is a terrible idea. It would waste your best food city. The only good reason to move 1W is to run specialists there, probably with Representation.

If you want to be guaranteed a good Bureaucracy capital, settle in place, because you don't know whether/when you'll find another good spot with a lot of land.

 

[oyzar]

I would still move onto the stone. The big point about moving on top of the stone is not the fact that it is a great moai statue city, it is the fact that it will be an insane early game settler/worker farm.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

I wonder if there's really that much hurry for rexing on archi map, i'd settle in place .

 

[KMadCandy]

On the subject of Maeiou statues...i would build them elsewhere if that is going to be a GP farm. the NE pollutes the pool enough as it is.

actually Maoi's cool that way. it's prophet points, not artists. i like settled prophets when i'm out of shrines to build. not everybody does tho.

This is really a typical case where you're forced to make a critical decision about where to settle without having all the information you would want. Does anybody else find it weird that even though the "Dawn of Man" screen says your people have wandering around as nomads forever they only have knowledge of a small part of the world?

welllllll ... they do call it the "Dawn of Man". and you know what they say ... men won't stop to ask for directions

rest of the post deleted, sorry

 

[Guardian_PL]

Wow. I gave up CIV for Witcher (and its forum, and modding team, and lots of other stuff around that area), just popped back in today and wow! I can post right in the beginning. Didn't happen before Not that it matters to anynone, but fun nonetheless xP

Honestly, Stone cries to be settled. People have no idea what a huge difference is to have +3 instead of one in city spot. No worker turns wasted on building quarry, fresh water and TWO additional food resources.

Maybe it is a tough choice, and maybe sea tiles are not that great, but they are COASTAL, with 4 clams, Financial and Moai will be done in literally in several turns.

Count me in in the group of settling 1W

 

[Sam_Yeager]

[people from RB don't read this, it says something other than "game complete!"]

And what was wrong with using a spoiler tag? I probably won't be playing that game anyway but it would have made it easier for those that are to skip over your comments.

 

[kuukkeli]

Generally, I find Archipelago maps are sufficiently food rich and many cities have good food and not much else.

Don't know if that's generally true but the few Archipelago games (or starts to be precise) I've played have been quite the contrary. Yesterday, for example, I strarted a game with same settings as this one (expect the difficulty which was on Monarch) and my capital started with 3 food tiles but my small continent / large island only had 4 other food resources (3x corn and 1x crabs). That combined with the fact that vast majority of the land tiles were plains (those plains in S's screenshots still give me shivers ) meant that there were no inland city sites with excess food - in fact most of the city sites would have been -8 to -12 food before farming.

While that may seem OT it's actually a vote for settling in place and reserving the extra seafood for two extra cities.

 

[TM Moot]

wow, 8 pages already..!!

surprised that there was a lengthy discussion on the settler move before the scout had explored first, anyhows, settle on stone and have done with it, most cities on archipeligo will be Maoi candidates, so we can debate that later

and sis, not posting round 1 until after your chrimbo party, shame on you ;-)

 

[Winston Hughes]

1W with Moai is a terrible idea. It would waste your best food city. The only good reason to move 1W is to run specialists there, probably with Representation.

If you want to be guaranteed a good Bureaucracy capital, settle in place, because you don't know whether/when you'll find another good spot with a lot of land.

I'd say that 1W would actually make a superior production city for the early-to-mid game, even without the Statues.

If I'm getting my numbers right, at size thirteen it could work 6 workshops, a plains hill mine and the plains elephants while still retaining a food surplus of five (it could also switch to running 8 specialists, but with no food surplus). Before workshops become worthwhile choices (certainly before Caste System), it might be wise to leave the forests unchopped, but by the mid-game workshops will be generating a ton of hammers. With Caste System, but before any of the later bonuses, this city could yield 24 base hammers.

Settling in place, the capital would grow much slower (after the initial burst), and could only yield a maximum food surplus of 10 without farming the grasslands - and there's no way a city like this should be working grassland farms early on. By workshopping four grasslands (with Caste), and working all of the hammer resources plus the grassland hill, this city would reach size twelve with no food surplus and generating only 26 hammers. Crucially, it would take much longer to get that far, and, turn-by-turn, would actually produce fewer hammers on average while growing.

And that's without even touching on the vital first 50 turns, where the 1W site will comfortably outpace the starting spot.

Yes, settling in place would eventually become a better production city, but is it really wise to significantly weaken your capital in the early-to-mid game, just to make it stronger in the mid-to-late game? I think not.

 

[cabert]

1W loses a lot of river tiles.
That's not the best way to play a financial leader if you ask me.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

1W with Moai is a terrible idea. It would waste your best food city. The only good reason to move 1W is to run specialists there, probably with Representation.

Now how do you justify that? The high food means it's going to take much less time for the water tiles to be all that's left. Maoi is great in a city like that. Not to mention that the food tiles would be boosted by it.

1W loses a lot of river tiles.
That's not the best way to play a financial leader if you ask me.

So let another city work the sacrificed river tiles. Christ...

 

[Ultimocrat]

Scout more, worst case senario, u delay capitol 1 turn, but knowing that is ur best choice.QUOTE]

I was going to propose this as a solution -- move the settler to the stone hill on turn 1, and the scout NE-N to the grassland hill on turn 2. You can always move the settler back to the original spot, and settle there, minus one turn. the value of the information gained is large.

 

[Black_Waltz]

1W loses a lot of river tiles.
That's not the best way to play a financial leader if you ask me.

Financial Coastline ftw.

 

[Pe Ell]

This is pretty silly given that stone plains hill is just 5 hammers compared to settling on it which is 3 hammers and 2 food...

My statement was more of a general one than based on the current situation. I tend to be a bit set in my ways and rarely change my strategy much. I am boneheaded enough to always try to adapt everything around me to me rather than the other way around.
Also most of the times it is better to work resources than settle on them.
But all this shouting for superfast start has swayed me around anyway, go for the plains hill stone. Grabbing all those clams isn't the world, later cities can always share a tile or two if pressed.

 

[Scarredroman]

I add my voice to the settle on the stone.I suggest taking Sailing first and build a lighthouse or rather trading post once it is researched and then go for the great lighthouse.

 

[oyzar]

That is an interesting strategy.. It will be pretty hard to build that lighthouse before you get to BW though... I think mining BW first might be better byt maybe it is me that is set in my ways this time. Do workboats get the extra promo? if so building a lighthouse before the 2nd and 3rd workboats would allow you to work those titles imeadiatly. Once you have all 4 clams worked a lighthouse is +4 food which is pretty darn good...

 

[Elrohir]

I say settle where you are. What you have now is a great production city, especially for an archipelago map. If you move, it won't be as good, even with Maoi. And it would be a waste to put the statues there - you'd want to run specialists in that city, anyway!

 

[Kietharr]

1W loses a lot of river tiles.
That's not the best way to play a financial leader if you ask me.

But it gains a lot of coast tiles which with any luck should produce 2f4c1h after the correct wonders and improvements are built and it frees up those tiles if the land around them permits another city or two. City count is quite important in BtS archipelago because of the whole overseas maintainance deal which is really annoying.

As for tech order, sailing definately comes first, enables UB and faster ships for circumnavigation bonus and general exploration. An important sidenote is it allows trade over water lessening the need for road networks early on, especially considering nearly all of your cities will be coastal. Mining and Bronzeworking need to come soon if you've got nearby neighbors, but early rushing tactics are really hindered by the archipellago maptype.