ALC Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar

[Gliese 581]

Another elephant, that means you would now give up 12 production by moving 1W instead of 9 (miscalculated 1 before), that is, if forest is left and plains is cottaged, not counting mid-late game stuff like railroads and levees. I would have advised settling in place even without the extra elephant so obv. that has not changed now for reasons already discussed. Long term production for the capital is more key than anything I feel.

The one concern I agree with is that there's possibly not enough space for a good city to the east since there seems to be coast to the SE. I would normally never advice scouting around first but perhaps you could move to the stone and then move back to original location and settle if there's enough room to the east just to make sure.. the production power of Nidaros in the starting place with access to stone would make me go for a wonderspam/settling strategy ala obsolete, but obv. you have more specific goals with an ALC so that might not be appropriate.

 

[solvero]

I still support settling in place- the extra ivory doesn't matter that much. It only means we are less likely to get any other resources in the capital, but we really have nothing to complain about with this start.

 

[duende29]

As for WWs: I don't think racing for the Great Lighthouse is a good idea if you decide to settle on Stone. From my experience on archipelago, AI prioritizes TGLh and it's usually built around Turn 100. All it takes is an Organized AI (HC is the devil) on a good hammer capital and you lost it.

If you want TGLh you are going to have to be VERY fast about it. Those forests will have to go.

I'd skip Stonehenge. You don't need to race for borders in Archipelago. Go Oracle+MC and hit the Colossus.

 

[Shoot the Moon]

I still support settling in place- the extra ivory doesn't matter that much. It only means we are less likely to get any other resources in the capital, but we really have nothing to complain about with this start.

Except that we're wasting an amazing GP farm on the stone.

 

[absimiliard]

I prefer hammer heavy capitols. So I say we settle in place. For those commerce junkies amongst us I'll point out that the 1F3H3C Elephants provide for commerce needs admirably.

I still think the extra fish aren't worth the lost hammers.

 

[Airefuego]

I favour on-the-stone now... basically because it will make an insanely good city and I want to see it take off! RAGNAR WANT FUN

Plus it will be a different sort of capital: GP Farm and Moai are not common choices in the capital - let's test its power!

Plus not much land in Archi maps, so on-the-stone leaves us more room for other cities on our home continent.

 

[Mu'min]

I say settle in place.

Settling on the stones will give you a very poor hammer city until you build the maoi statues, which will eave with only one national wonder slot in what will undoubtly be your best city, where you will probably want to build others. Also without hammers it will take you ages to built enough workboats to make use of the calms, and until you build a light house the rest of all those water tiles won't be worth working.

But if you settle in place you will have access to 3 hills and about 9 or 10 river tiles which you can cottage up, which work well with ragnars financial trait. Farming the grass and floodplain and working the calms should give you plenty of food. This will spare the moai statues for a other city, and given the lack of land on this sort of map, there will be a city more in need of the moai statues.

This will also free up the further two calms for other cities and there does seem to be land near to them to place a city on to grab them.

Otherwise great story (oh my god! for a heart stopping moment i thought i lost everything i wrote ) anyway, and thanks for the ALC series it helped me move up to prince! it will will interesting to you play ragnar i had him as a neighbour quite a few games back, 38 berzekers sitting on your door step is no fun

 

[Deadliest Catch]

9 pages and the Scout hasn't even moved.

 

[PericlesOfAthen]

I agree with most of what you say except the Maori statues. I think it's overkill.

Let's think about it, if he settles in place has has stone, two elephant resources (3 hamemrs each), and at least 2 minable hills. That is plenty already as he will likely be working sea tiles very late in the game except for the 2 seafood which would be a waste of an essential wonder.

I say save the statues for a heavy watered city that has a little production. Build the statues there (with help from stone) and also build West Point. That would be a turbo navy city. The HE can go in a land based city if he gets one, or even the capital if production sites are very limited.

I agree. I have built Maori Statues in a heavy water city on several occasions and it is very effective. Especially with Financial giving three commerce to coastal tiles, the city produces a nice amount of commerce as well. You can turn a blah location into a major city.

 

[KMadCandy]

Do workboats get the extra promo? if so building a lighthouse before the 2nd and 3rd workboats would allow you to work those titles imeadiatly. Once you have all 4 clams worked a lighthouse is +4 food which is pretty darn good...

they don't. it's not a free movement like the circumnavigation bonus, it's an official promotion and workboats aren't eligible for those.

 

[Verge]

9 pages and the Scout hasn't even moved.

The scout moved on page 7, the same page Sis notified us of his lack of playtime today.

 

[Deadliest Catch]

The scout moved on page 7, the same page Sis notified us of his lack of playtime today.

Ah he sure did! My bad. Well, he didn't reveal any juicy tiles. I vote for moving the Settler 1W.

 

[EEE_BOY]

i vote to settle on that stone. build some stone wonders, perfect GP farm, move capital later

 

[Verge]

Ah he sure did! My bad. Well, he didn't reveal any juicy tiles. I vote for moving the Settler 1W.

I'm starting to lean towards that option as well. I like the idea of settling in place, but I think a lot of people have good points about how players need to rethink city placement on archipelago maps.

 

[ratrangerm]

Starting Position, Continued

Wanted to make sure I had the screenshot when commenting.

Something that just occurred to me... if the Settler is moved onto the Stone, the turn will end as the Settler's two moves will both be used on moving onto the hilltop.

So that means the turn is over, which gives Sis the opportunity to move the Scout again and see what else is to the east. If it's apparent there is room to fit another city to the east, he can then settle on the Stone.

However, if it becomes apparent there is no room for another city to the east, then Sis can move the Settler back to the original starting spot and still have the extra move left to build the city.

Moving onto the Stone means the city can't be founded until the second turn of the game, and if additional territory revealed shows he should keep the original starting spot, he can move back and still found the city the next turn.

So that's what I would do... move the Settler onto the Stone with the idea of settling there, but on the next turn, before doing anything with the Settler move the Scout again to reveal more territory.

Now who wants to start the debate on which square the Scout should move to?

 

[DarkFyre99]

You're a heavily naval civ with a pre-astronomy UU, with stone in your capital. Since you won't have frigates during your UU's glory days, then you'll have to use espionage to take down those city defenses. As such, I'd build the Great Wall, and settle the first Great Spy for +16 ep's.

I would also seriously consider making your capital your Spy City, which would mean moving your capital one tile west onto the stone. Four clams can support a lot of spies late in the game, and the Great Spies they generate can support your espionage when

Of course, settling in place also makes a lot of sense, especially for a financial Civ, which would free up the other two clams for other cities, which is also a good move. Settling in place would make create an ideal Bureaucracy capital.

Either way, if you do go the espionage wall, make sure you build the Great Wall in your Spy City.

 

[Detektyw]

@DarkFyre99:

I don't think that making the capital a spy city has much benefit in an archipelago game. There's a significant chance that he won't meet any civ before optics, which would make generating espionage points a waste. As the early game is very important I would towards either SRE or CRE, not CEE and definitely not SEE.

 

[carl corey]

Now who wants to start the debate on which square the Scout should move to?

You, my friend, are evil! At this rate we'll get to 100 pages easily! Anyway, there were several ALC starts in which I agreed with Sisiutil's starting moves and several in which I didn't, but I've enjoyed all of them nonetheless. As was once pointed to me, there's such a thing as having too much information to make a decision, and Civ4 starting positions sure fit the profile; so no matter what he chooses to do I'll still follow this thread. As I'm sure everybody will.

 

[Mu'min]

Originally Posted by ratrangerm
Now who wants to start the debate on which square the Scout should move to?

Sorry, couldn't resist this one.

1NE1N to the grassland hill.

 

[oyzar]

Maces cats galleons and frigates work pretty well together... Or at least galleons.