TRJS
Warlord
Agree with KMad, the switch to Police State last game showed us this hurts more than helps in early wars.
ALC Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
Refar
Deity
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- Apr 10, 2005
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I was thinking about this too, and also about ragnar not beeing spiritual. Just wanted to throw it in, as the whole pyramids discusiion was revolving just about the "We are not running SE"-thingy.
Jet
No, no, please. Please.
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- Mar 16, 2006
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I don't think it showed that at all. Staying in Police State worked great when I shadowed from there.
I think you could also learn the lesson that in BTS it's crucial to time your Golden Ages carefully to avoid anarchy while maxing the civics. I think the changes in BTS (no anarchy during GA, GA with one GP, Shwedagon Paya for Theocracy without Theology) have just made changing civics so much jucier. And I seems to me that they have also given SE and the Pyramids another edge. (I love going into PS at the begin of a GA and churn out a flood of maces.)didn't we decide part of the lesson to be learned from the last game was too many civics changes overall, and that police state probably wasn't the best choice at the time we used it, which was early because we had the mids? i'm not denying that there are times and places to use when PS is the best thing. but i came away from the last ALC game thinking those were two of the lessons to learn from, so that line of thinking makes me go. so do lots of things tho.
Edit: Sorry, I forgot:
Shwedagon Paya can also free your mind before meeting other mentalities.
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
I never use police state except when facing heavy war weariness in the later stages of a game, damn modern people with their emancipation ideals..pyramids are representation basically, otherwise I think it's mostly wasted.
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Guardian_PL
Emperor
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Come on Sis, don't torment us with waiting! 
Ah, and Shwedagon Paya without gold and Industrious in no-no. Not to mention that even with it, without religion there's no religious civic bonus. So I'd say run to Optics for Caravels.
Khem, Slaveryyy!
And Cow city I'd make inland on hills 1W to the mooooo-ers xP
Ah, and Shwedagon Paya without gold and Industrious in no-no. Not to mention that even with it, without religion there's no religious civic bonus. So I'd say run to Optics for Caravels.
Khem, Slaveryyy!
And Cow city I'd make inland on hills 1W to the mooooo-ers xP
Totally true, unless you have a spare GE, from the Pyramids or Forges or such.
That's a pretty significant waste of a GE...
I was thinking that great lighthouse it's not going to be of much use if we really are isolated.
Maybe going for oracle and get an early colossus is not such a bad plan if we really are isolated...
I agree on Stonehenge, is going to be a very fast build.
Pyramids? Ragnar is financial so no SE this time and not spiritual either. I don't see this wonder as a good investement.
Maybe going for oracle and get an early colossus is not such a bad plan if we really are isolated...
I agree on Stonehenge, is going to be a very fast build.
Pyramids? Ragnar is financial so no SE this time and not spiritual either. I don't see this wonder as a good investement.
Black_Waltz
Chieftain
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- Aug 1, 2007
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I would from a Happiness point of view.
It just doesn't seem a reason good enogh in my view.
There are already jumbos and wine for the happines and to get the wine online we need to get monarchy anyway that again makes the pyramids less attractive.
stuge
Emperor
Lessee, there are 20 pages and counting.
There's one played round.
This is so going to go over the 1000 post limit.
There's one played round.
This is so going to go over the 1000 post limit.
If not oracle, then at least mids. It's of course possible he gets GLH that late but then the game is unfair, since I have never been able to do it on emperor/archipelago.
You know what, I've totally changed my mind 
Go for GLH Sisiutil. Forget about the Colossus. The Colossus will be obsolete really fast if you decide to grab Astro from Liberalism. If you're isolated, that will be over soon if you beeline Optics after getting CoL.
Colossus won't be of much use because you won't be working a crapload of sea tiles to make it worth the investment: You'll work max 4 tiles at Nidaros, 0 at the inland city, and the terrain on the Easter island looks good. The only one that would get much out of it would be fishy wine, and it's gonna take a while to get that city going with its craptastic production.
However you can settle at least 4 coastal cities before Optics and get something out of the Lighthouse while you get Caravels to cruise the seas. Then it'll rock you until Corporations. PLUS, if you want to get a GM for Zerk-Rifles, Nidaros will give you the one you're looking for.
Go for GLH Sisiutil. Forget about the Colossus. The Colossus will be obsolete really fast if you decide to grab Astro from Liberalism. If you're isolated, that will be over soon if you beeline Optics after getting CoL.
Colossus won't be of much use because you won't be working a crapload of sea tiles to make it worth the investment: You'll work max 4 tiles at Nidaros, 0 at the inland city, and the terrain on the Easter island looks good. The only one that would get much out of it would be fishy wine, and it's gonna take a while to get that city going with its craptastic production.
However you can settle at least 4 coastal cities before Optics and get something out of the Lighthouse while you get Caravels to cruise the seas. Then it'll rock you until Corporations. PLUS, if you want to get a GM for Zerk-Rifles, Nidaros will give you the one you're looking for.
I guess you're right, it's probably more a fun way playing the game then a positively effective one. I also wouldn't be able to resist Pyramids on such a start. Fun-permanoobishness on my side? 
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
Round 2: 3175 BC to 1550 BC (65 turns)
I'm nothing if not consistent. More times than I can count, I've changed crucial early-game builds based upon feedback in the thread. This time was no exception, as I abandoned the Galley and went for a Settler instead.
A couple of turns later I finished my research:
I followed that with...
Along the way, I discovered that of everyone on the map, I had some of the best luck with goody huts.
Well, in terms of collecting gold, anyway.
Once the Settler was complete, I founded my second city and decided to make it coastal as well.
Back in the capital, I decided to work on a wonder. Which one? This one:
After that, I built another work boat to explore around that western island.
Next tech:
My border expansion revealed another interesting resource on the western isle:
Yes, marble! I don't think I'll get access to it early enough to help with any early wonders, but I think the Great Library will be a definite possibility.
Next tech, for protection, since there was no copper anywhere:
Of course, man cannot live on arrows alone. He also needs... er... bread.
Meanwhile, the other civs aren't slouches. One of them built the Great Wall.
Yes, I was building the Great Lighthouse at this time in Nidaros.
But I still burned through several more techs:
I have horses, it turns out, both on my starting land mass and on the western island, so that's good news.
Following that, I successfully completed my second wonder:
Of course, with only two cities, I'm not seeing any benefits from it yet. So I think the next round is going to have to focus on REXing.
And that's where I ended things. Here's a look at the map, with more of the western island and its surrounding ocean tiles revealed:
The western island is, unfortunately, largely bereft of food. I think we'll have to revisit the previous dotmaps; I think the southwesternmost fish is going to have to go to a city on the island that will also claim the marble and the silk. I also think the capital's northwestern clam tile is going to have to go to a horse city on the western land mass. That's what you get for being greedy with your capital, I guess.
Also note that no other civs have made contact. This leads me to believe that I am truly isolated. Another priority in the next round will be exploring via island-hopping to confirm this, but Optics is looking more and more like a high-priority technology.
So as I said, good for me for claiming a couple of early wonders, but I think in the next round I need to expand and explore. What do the rest of you think?
I'm nothing if not consistent. More times than I can count, I've changed crucial early-game builds based upon feedback in the thread. This time was no exception, as I abandoned the Galley and went for a Settler instead.
A couple of turns later I finished my research:
I followed that with...
Along the way, I discovered that of everyone on the map, I had some of the best luck with goody huts.
Well, in terms of collecting gold, anyway.
Once the Settler was complete, I founded my second city and decided to make it coastal as well.
Back in the capital, I decided to work on a wonder. Which one? This one:
After that, I built another work boat to explore around that western island.
Next tech:
My border expansion revealed another interesting resource on the western isle:
Yes, marble! I don't think I'll get access to it early enough to help with any early wonders, but I think the Great Library will be a definite possibility.
Next tech, for protection, since there was no copper anywhere:
Of course, man cannot live on arrows alone. He also needs... er... bread.
Meanwhile, the other civs aren't slouches. One of them built the Great Wall.
Yes, I was building the Great Lighthouse at this time in Nidaros.
But I still burned through several more techs:
I have horses, it turns out, both on my starting land mass and on the western island, so that's good news.
Following that, I successfully completed my second wonder:
Of course, with only two cities, I'm not seeing any benefits from it yet. So I think the next round is going to have to focus on REXing.
And that's where I ended things. Here's a look at the map, with more of the western island and its surrounding ocean tiles revealed:
The western island is, unfortunately, largely bereft of food. I think we'll have to revisit the previous dotmaps; I think the southwesternmost fish is going to have to go to a city on the island that will also claim the marble and the silk. I also think the capital's northwestern clam tile is going to have to go to a horse city on the western land mass. That's what you get for being greedy with your capital, I guess.
Also note that no other civs have made contact. This leads me to believe that I am truly isolated. Another priority in the next round will be exploring via island-hopping to confirm this, but Optics is looking more and more like a high-priority technology.
So as I said, good for me for claiming a couple of early wonders, but I think in the next round I need to expand and explore. What do the rest of you think?
Verge
Let's hug it out
Nice round, Sis. You're right, I think that the Marble will be a great help, and the GL should definitely be a priority. Since you're isolated, focusing on banging out techs should be the primary goal until you come into contact with other civs.
Hopefully you'll find some Iron, however. Amassing a bunch of Beserkers will be difficult if you don't.
Hopefully you'll find some Iron, however. Amassing a bunch of Beserkers will be difficult if you don't.
popejubal
Emperor
It is kind of a shame that a financial leader is the one screaming out "BUILD MORE WONDERS!" Still, the map often makes a bigger difference in your strategy than the leader does, so I approve wholeheartedly and would like to encourage you to throw down another wonder (probably Pyramids) once you get a few more cities built and have enough units to defend yourself from any barbarians that wander by.
One thought: If you can get a chariot with Sentry and you load him into a galley, then you effectively create a galley with Sentry (and NavI, for Ragnar). If you are isolated, then being able to see that one extra tile across the water might just tell you where you could settle a city so that the border pop(s) let you launch across the ocean to contact a/the other civ(s) a thousand years or so earlier than you would have otherwise been able.
...plus, founding that city might give you the opportunity to invade another continent before Astronomy and that's at least worth considering. I don't think you need to chase this as an active strategy, but you're probably going to end up with a galley or two anyway, so if you have a chariot out busting barbarian heads, consider giving him Sentry instead of Medic.
One thought: If you can get a chariot with Sentry and you load him into a galley, then you effectively create a galley with Sentry (and NavI, for Ragnar). If you are isolated, then being able to see that one extra tile across the water might just tell you where you could settle a city so that the border pop(s) let you launch across the ocean to contact a/the other civ(s) a thousand years or so earlier than you would have otherwise been able.
...plus, founding that city might give you the opportunity to invade another continent before Astronomy and that's at least worth considering. I don't think you need to chase this as an active strategy, but you're probably going to end up with a galley or two anyway, so if you have a chariot out busting barbarian heads, consider giving him Sentry instead of Medic.
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