ALC Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar

[Munch]

I'll accept that most people probably have more expertise than me, especially at this level 1 higher than I currently play, but does anyone else find it slightly perverse that there's a lot of talk about Oracle/Great Lighthouse/Colossus, none of which are accelerated by the stone we were lucky enough to get on this island?

Anyway, if it were me, I'd be going all out for Polytheism->Monotheism in a desperate attempt to grab a religion. I guess Nidaros won't be the Wall Street city, so I'd try and get a second city which will have Wall Street, and get the religion founded there. To this end, stone-accelerated Stonehenge (and possibly Maoi in the same city) seems like a no-brainer.

Intrigued to see how the next round plays out!

 

[cabert]

stone is not accelerating oracle, but having 3 hammers from the city center is accelerating everything.

 

[Zanttu]

I'll accept that most people probably have more expertise than me, especially at this level 1 higher than I currently play, but does anyone else find it slightly perverse that there's a lot of talk about Oracle/Great Lighthouse/Colossus, none of which are accelerated by the stone we were lucky enough to get on this island?

Anyway, if it were me, I'd be going all out for Polytheism->Monotheism in a desperate attempt to grab a religion. I guess Nidaros won't be the Wall Street city, so I'd try and get a second city which will have Wall Street, and get the religion founded there. To this end, stone-accelerated Stonehenge (and possibly Maoi in the same city) seems like a no-brainer.

Intrigued to see how the next round plays out!

I said to build Pyramids as well, and they are accelerated by stone

 

[Scarredroman]

Weirdly enough, the Ivory will be connected without roads. Ummm, Oracle will most likely be gone after you build GLH in this difficulty. Not enough trees, and GLH requires the Trading Post to be built too. Not a risk I'd take.

Yes, I know GLH requires the trading post. I was talking about the wonders that were or would become available. Use of preoduction or whipping overflow from judicously interspersed units or buildings provides more opportunity to build the Oracle (and the other Wonders) than you suggest.

 

[TheArchduke]

Am I the only one thinking that building more then one critical wonder that early is slightly insane?

 

[Refar]

Actually, if we are isloated - which came up as a possibility - its a good occasion to go wonder crazy - a little bit - no need for lots of troops early, so there are a couple of hammers to spare

 

[Gliese 581]

Getting a few wonder denies them to the AI as well. There will be little need for a big army, expansion is not a race..

 

[Zanttu]

Actually, if we are isloated - which came up as a possibility - its a good occasion to go wonder crazy - a little bit - no need for lots of troops early, so there are a couple of hammers to spare

Even if we aren't isolated, there's no one with us on our island so that's still a good occasion to go wonder crazy a bit.

 

[duende29]

Am I the only one thinking that building more then one critical wonder that early is slightly insane?

You are right, however we're alone on the island and both Colossus and Pyramids are usually not a high priority for the AI, so Oracle-MC-Colossus and Pyramids in another city (that inland city has good production too BTW) is not so crazy if you just prioritize them right away.

Anyway, back to Sisiutil game. He already went Sailing, so I guess related to wonders, he's gonna attempt GLH.

I'd say: 2x Boat (done) -> Worker (done)-> Warriors till pop. 5 -> Worker -> Settler -> Outpost -> GLH

He still hasn't put a hammer on that Galley, and I vote for leaving that for later. I'd move the scout E to fogbust (there's a hill forest there), one warrior on capital and a warrior near the chokepoint to the N, on a hill forest too, and hope he holds the barchers.

Settle the inland spot, since it's good production, chop an obelisk.

After Masonry is complete:

BW -> The Wheel -> Animal Husbandry -> Agriculture -> Pottery

BW first to chop for GLH and Slavery, the Wheel to connect the next city and have something to do with the workers, then AH and Agro to get the northern city going. It's good you found so much gold because those Slavery events are SO annoying. Thus I dunno if you should switch to it before GLH to get the first 20+ hammers by whipping Outpost. Definitively after. Pottery is to cottage some tiles of the capital, unless SE forbids that, but damnit, you're Financial.

After GLH is done (hopefully), start the Galley, now with the bonus, get Archery if no Copper revealed, pull out an archer and replace the warrior on the chokepoint to fogbusting where the Scout is, move the scout to Capital and put him in the Galley to bust the hut. I settle that island next, definitively, unless you reveal copper and need to settle it. Oracle should be gone by now, I dunno if Colossus is a possibility because it'd be near turn 100 when you complete GLH.

Next project: Mids on inland city! Put that stone to use, mister.

 

[Zanttu]

I'd say: 2x Boat (done) -> Worker (done)-> Warriors till pop. 5 -> Worker -> Settler -> Outpost -> GLH

I'm gonna kill myself if sis can get GLH that late.

 

[Winston Hughes]

On the assumption that we are fully isolated, this is what I'd be planning to do:

1) Tech BW -> Wheel (or Archery if no Copper), then Agriculture -> Pottery. Build workboats (for exploration and feeding new cities) when not building Settlers/Workers, then a few troops for barb defence/xp farming.

2) Assess the Oracle situation. If it seems like a lock, then go for it, take MC, and research to CoL. If there's a serious chance of missing it, then research MC -> CoL. Build the Pyramids and, hopefully, the Colossus (the latter as much for denying it to the AI as for our own benefit).

3) Run Representation & Caste Sytem. Build workshops where necessary for production, and some extra ones (initially unworked) to power the anticipated military buildup. But concentrate on beakers, not hammers (vital builds only) - work coasts and run scientists (retarding growth at happy cap).

4) Tech to Optics, and explore while researching to Currency.

5a) If there's good, isolated land still available, then research Astronomy and settle it.

5b) Or, if there's a decent military target available, then tech CS -> Construction -> Astronomy, and switch from research to production in preparation for war.

5c) If neither, then concentrate on the research economy and aim for Liberalism, ideally grabbing Chemistry for a Privateer frenzy to cripple key rivals (very effective on this kind of map) before our midgame military onslaught.

Much of this, however, rests on there being no neighbours we can reach by Galley - an assumption I feel we have to make at this point*. I still think there's a strong chance we'll meet another AI soon enough - it's only been 33 turns, and these maps can be labyrinthine. I would suggest that Sisiutil halt any subsequent turnset soon after meeting any AI leader(s), so we can reassess the situation.

*Better safe than sorry. We can't afford to act like we're not isolated 'til every last route has been checked.

ps. If we do find ourselves fully isolated with little room to expand, and we pop a GE, then I'd consider using it to bulb Machinery to hasten contact with the rest of the world.

 

[duende29]

I'm gonna kill myself if sis can get GLH that late.

Well I wouldn't go for it in the first place, and he said he's not gonna go Oracle. He went Sailing->Mining->Masonry.

BUT, I think it may be possible to go by the order I wrote, considering Sis will have 14 food 10 hammers at pop.5 if he works the flood plains and the mined plains hill. 16/11 at pop.6 on a grass forest. The 2nd worker and the settler are gonna get done fast. You also got 3 forests to chop in BFG and 1 outside.

What do you suggest?

 

[shyuhe]

Oracle isn't worth the techs needed. HR will take care of any happiness issues for the time being and all coastal cities won't have health issues either. I'd just go for a regular rex of the island while teching towards currency/col. A shrine will not produce much money on this map since it'll be hard to spread the religion.

 

[Hackapell]

I don't think getting a religion should be a priority of yours. It's often better in isolation. to be atheistic so that the rest of the world doesn't already hate you when you meet them. I'm not too sure why A) people think that we can wonder-spam now or B) why the 'mids are desirable. There are still barbs to deal with, and without copper yet, we could have some problems down the road if we wonder-spam before taking proper precautions. Remember, It was the Barbs that slowed us down in the Mehmed game, so ignoring them even now would be fatal. Second, Why the love-fest with the 'mids? Unless we'd like to temporarily ignore the Financial trait, the 'mids are just a large waste of hammers that could go into more beneficial projects, such as markets, courthouses, settlers, and workers to improve the economy. If we are isolated, the Economy should be the thing we most want to strengthen.

 

[Ultimocrat]

Second, Why the love-fest with the 'mids? Unless we'd like to temporarily ignore the Financial trait, the 'mids are just a large waste of hammers

Unless we want to ignore GP generation and not run specialists with the overabundant seafood in Nidaros and the 3-fish wine city, the 'Mids will do us some good. Also, the +3 happiness is nothing to scoff at, and the stone makes them comparatively cheap.

 

[r_rolo1]

I'm with Hackapell here. Even considering isolation and the awesome GP possibilities of Nidaros, the Mids are a huge investement of hammers. IMHO those hammers would be better spent in Collosus/GLH and in some more settlers/workers/infra....

 

[Hackapell]

To clarify my remark on the 'mids, I am not against putting some specialists in Nidaros and the wine/triple fish city, but I want to question the real need for Represenation. I think that Stonehenge or the GW are more feasible as early stone wonders, and Sisi is right in that we haven't played with that at all. Now would be a good time, and we can always settle our GP in the Rice/ Cow/ Ivory city for more hammers.

 

[Refar]

The Piramides are not only good for Representation. It's also Police state. We are hoping to see some wars i this game, and Fashism is lo-ooooOOOooo-ong way ahead.

 

[r_rolo1]

^^That is a point for having the Mids, not for building it...

I'm not shunning the usefulness of the Mids, I'm simply stating that we have a water rich map ( at least in the surroundings ) and a island with few rivers. In this situation I think that the Mids are completely outclassed by one of the water wonders ( collosus if isolated ,GLH if not )

 

[KMadCandy]

didn't we decide part of the lesson to be learned from the last game was too many civics changes overall, and that police state probably wasn't the best choice at the time we used it, which was early because we had the mids? i'm not denying that there are times and places to use when PS is the best thing. but i came away from the last ALC game thinking those were two of the lessons to learn from, so that line of thinking makes me go . so do lots of things tho.