TRJS
Warlord
I'd say NE island looks most promising for resources. Possible silver, copper or even deer? Worth checking out over the other island.
ALC Game 20: Vikings/Ragnar
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
popejubal
Emperor
Not bad so far and don't worry too much about Alphabet. I'll bet that someone has Alphabet and you can wait a couple of extra turns to start tech trading even if it's just to find out who has the "worst enemy" with whom.
One thing that will be helpful, though, is to build a couple of spies as soon as you have Alphabet to explore the uncharted lands. You won't be able to send an explorer everywhere and as KMad mentioned, you can trigger a guarded hut with a spy - something you can't do with an explorer.
...speaking of which, don't forget to either build an explorer or to upgrade a scout before you send of your first caravels. You don't want to lose the scout to a random Archer when you're in some far off land.
One thing that will be helpful, though, is to build a couple of spies as soon as you have Alphabet to explore the uncharted lands. You won't be able to send an explorer everywhere and as KMad mentioned, you can trigger a guarded hut with a spy - something you can't do with an explorer.
...speaking of which, don't forget to either build an explorer or to upgrade a scout before you send of your first caravels. You don't want to lose the scout to a random Archer when you're in some far off land.
Gliese 581
Your average civ junkie
You can trade aesthetics for alphabet with someone, you got what you wanted from that tech anyhow ( Unless you want to build the parthenon as well.. 
) but the wonders are still there for the AI, you just need to research alphabet one or two turns and they'll trade.
) but the wonders are still there for the AI, you just need to research alphabet one or two turns and they'll trade.InvisibleStalke
Emperor
Sisutil, your play is spot on for an isolated start - at least as far as the LHC experience suggests. You have a strong enough economy to rush straight for Optics and find your trade partners (victims).
Leventis
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2006
- Messages
- 262
If you want to put the NE in Bjorgvin, I think it makes sense to put the Moai Statues there too -- in fact, I don't think you will have a choice. You will need some production there to get your libraries, markets, grocers etc there and you don't want to be whipping all the time. Also, I'd settle the western island asap initially for the trade routes, but also because they could turn into very powerful cities by the mid-game. Other than that, this seems like a bit of a boring wait till you hit optics.
May i reccommend the NE for bjorgen-something. with three fish and 2 floodplains it would make a nice secondary GP farm and will be able to contribute a lot of beakers to make up for the lack of cottagable land. Since it won't have all the wonders polluting the pool, you can use it to generate GS more reliably than Nidaros. I would also put Oxford university there and start settling GS after building an academy in nidaros and Bjorgenplace. This frees up Nidaros for Moa statues and iron works. With all that food the city can absorb the pollution later in the game and you can build HE west point in the military city. Wall street can go in your shrine city....I am sure the AI is willing to build a shrine for you. I would let haithabu basically be a mediocre city, working the forests to slowly build defensive troops, caravels and other naval units. Perhaps building expansion packs (settler/worker/3defensive units) to start settling other islands when you get astronomy. If you avoid building a road on the tile 1south of the mountains you can probably have a forest grow there as well. Once you have replacable parts, lumbermills to build the buildings you need to run specialists and to maximize them, after they are built I would put the national preserve there. Eight forests is pretty rare to have around a city in the late game. With a forge,factory and industrial park you can run 5 engineers there plus 3 other specialists. Another option is an espionage city. fewer buildings required I think with courthouse/jail/intel center and the Kremlin you can run a total of 8 spies. Combined with scotland yard that will fund your ep points for the entire empire.
Archi maps tend to run into the later game so you really need to plan ahead and have a long term view. If we had neighbors I would say chop them for troops and worry later what to do with a mediocre city. Usually I have to build the National preserve up in some tundra city that takes forever to build the buildings it needs to run specialists and has no food. but this is a good spot. otherwise, at best it is a mediocre 2nd tier cottage city.
Archi maps tend to run into the later game so you really need to plan ahead and have a long term view. If we had neighbors I would say chop them for troops and worry later what to do with a mediocre city. Usually I have to build the National preserve up in some tundra city that takes forever to build the buildings it needs to run specialists and has no food. but this is a good spot. otherwise, at best it is a mediocre 2nd tier cottage city.
And I kept expanding, though perhaps not as quickly as some would like (all those darned wonders). <----statements like this make me cry...please build wonders and many buildings you do not need. a zillion courthouse/granary/barracks cities are so boring.
Looking good. That Iron turned up in just the right place to make Uppsala a very nice military production city. Will you go for the classic Heroic Epic/West Point combo there or do you expect to be able to found a second military production city soon that'll get one of them?
More exploration would have been nice though, you could have sneaked another work boat for it in there sometime.
Not if you put the NE there to turn it into a GP farm, as you won't be working a lot of sea tiles. I would keep spamming wonders in the capital, put the NE there and make it my GP farm while Bjorgvin can have Moai, but then again I don't consider mixed and therefore unpredictable Great Person Points a problem as long as all possible types are useful to you (i.e. no Great Artist points beyond that from the NE, and maybe not too many Great Prophet points as to not endanger corporation founding, though of course an early Prophet economy is a nice thing too).
If you do expect/plan a second military production city, and especially if you don't get to go to war soon and earn a Great General, Uppsala might be a candidate for Moai too, naturally.
That Iron turned up in just the right place to make Uppsala a very nice military production city. Will you go for the classic Heroic Epic/West Point combo there or do you expect to be able to found a second military production city soon that'll get one of them?More exploration would have been nice though, you could have sneaked another work boat for it in there sometime.
Not if you put the NE there to turn it into a GP farm, as you won't be working a lot of sea tiles. I would keep spamming wonders in the capital, put the NE there and make it my GP farm while Bjorgvin can have Moai, but then again I don't consider mixed and therefore unpredictable Great Person Points a problem as long as all possible types are useful to you (i.e. no Great Artist points beyond that from the NE, and maybe not too many Great Prophet points as to not endanger corporation founding, though of course an early Prophet economy is a nice thing too).
If you do expect/plan a second military production city, and especially if you don't get to go to war soon and earn a Great General, Uppsala might be a candidate for Moai too, naturally.
well played so far.
Advice?
1) research meditation!
it's cheap and will let your next great prophet actually lightbulb something worthwhile (counts for your next scientist too).
Remember that theology opens up paper.
2) You don't need alphabet.
All the Ais will probably have it when you meet them, meaning it's worth exactly 0. Go for lib right after optics. You don't need anything else for a while.
I'm pretty sure you'll get calendar in a trade deal, so my suggested tech path is
- optics
- meditation,
- civil service (after code of laws and maths) or theology (after monotheism, only if you get another prophet)
- paper
- education
- philo (lightbulb or trade, if possible)
- liberalism
- free astronomy
If you go the theology way, you'll need to trade for civil service, for berserkers.
3) Build the moai statue anywhere but in the capital. You will want national epic + oxford there, since you're running representation and have settled some people there.
4) don't be shy trading on sight. The WFYABTA effect only starts counting after you meet the guys. Meaning that trading 2/3 techs before meeting another guy is "free" in this area. (I mean the next guy will not take into account the 2/3 techs you already traded, he may still not trade with you because of "you traded with our worst enemy" penalty)
Advice?
1) research meditation!
it's cheap and will let your next great prophet actually lightbulb something worthwhile (counts for your next scientist too).
Remember that theology opens up paper.
2) You don't need alphabet.
All the Ais will probably have it when you meet them, meaning it's worth exactly 0. Go for lib right after optics. You don't need anything else for a while.
I'm pretty sure you'll get calendar in a trade deal, so my suggested tech path is
- optics
- meditation,
- civil service (after code of laws and maths) or theology (after monotheism, only if you get another prophet)
- paper
- education
- philo (lightbulb or trade, if possible)
- liberalism
- free astronomy
If you go the theology way, you'll need to trade for civil service, for berserkers.
3) Build the moai statue anywhere but in the capital. You will want national epic + oxford there, since you're running representation and have settled some people there.
4) don't be shy trading on sight. The WFYABTA effect only starts counting after you meet the guys. Meaning that trading 2/3 techs before meeting another guy is "free" in this area. (I mean the next guy will not take into account the 2/3 techs you already traded, he may still not trade with you because of "you traded with our worst enemy" penalty)
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
yay! i "saved" a hut in an LHC, and was about to pop it when i realized that if i waited 2 turns to finish pottery, i'd open up metalcasting. i waited 2 turns, knocked wood, and voila, very generous hut! so that's exactly what i had in mind when i posted that you shouldn't think of it as tempting that early (first round), leave it a little bit and maybe get something great from it. 
you didn't mention that you got the swordsman quest, but i saw it in the log. the regular reward is free CR1 on all swordsmen. if you're in HR when you finish it, you can pick free Drill1 on all melee units, not just swords, which is kinda spiffy. you'll be making a lot of melee zerkers, but you're not spiritual, ewww. if i get that quest when i'm spiritual and have time to make the swords, i change to HR before the last one if i'm in running Rep, and then go back 5 turns later.
the religions screen looks funky. the first religion was founded in 3475, it's 26% of the world. the second in 3375, 13%. but the third religion founded (1225 BC) is actually the most popular, 29%. just by a little bit, but it still makes me giggle. that doesn't look like a one landmass map kind of spread to me, i wonder why
. hopefully you'll be able to meet some of the blocs before they meet each other, and do trades without "worst enemy" penalties.
i "saved" a hut in an LHC, and was about to pop it when i realized that if i waited 2 turns to finish pottery, i'd open up metalcasting. i waited 2 turns, knocked wood, and voila, very generous hut! so that's exactly what i had in mind when i posted that you shouldn't think of it as tempting that early (first round), leave it a little bit and maybe get something great from it. you didn't mention that you got the swordsman quest, but i saw it in the log. the regular reward is free CR1 on all swordsmen. if you're in HR when you finish it, you can pick free Drill1 on all melee units, not just swords, which is kinda spiffy. you'll be making a lot of melee zerkers, but you're not spiritual, ewww. if i get that quest when i'm spiritual and have time to make the swords, i change to HR before the last one if i'm in running Rep, and then go back 5 turns later.
the religions screen looks funky. the first religion was founded in 3475, it's 26% of the world. the second in 3375, 13%. but the third religion founded (1225 BC) is actually the most popular, 29%. just by a little bit, but it still makes me giggle. that doesn't look like a one landmass map kind of spread to me, i wonder why
. hopefully you'll be able to meet some of the blocs before they meet each other, and do trades without "worst enemy" penalties.Oh, and of course Theology would allow to build the AP, which could provide some nice extra production that's otherwise hard to get on this map type.
I changed civics immediately:
I was able to take advantage of the raised happiness cap immediately; Nidaros, with all that seafood, quickly grew to its maximum size. Taking advantage of the +3 research points from each specialist will take longer--I especially need to get that NE wine/3 fish city going--but I'll get there.
In recent games, even with the Pyramids, I've found Hereditary Rule to be a fair bit better than Representation. Perhaps because I've been building it fairly early when not many cities can support or even allow specialists... Anyway the upkeep is lower, and of course happiness is no longer a serious worry in your non-main cities - it also gives you a good excuse to have a few archers or anti-barb units hanging around. Hmm, the +3
per specialist does look alright in this situation as long as you are running specialists in your capital (as you say you are currently), and those 2 guys who come free with the Great Library help.Not to mention that you need a few barbs to get the XPs to open up HE.
Hah, MC on a hut? That's a free Oracle there, without the hammer investment... You know what I popped on that hut? Angry Barbs. 
I'd grab CoL as soon as Optics is done. And depending on the trades you're allowed to make, Currency.
I'd grab CoL as soon as Optics is done. And depending on the trades you're allowed to make, Currency.
Nice. You're getting all the wonders everyone wanted and still expanding ok. Exploring and optics seems to be the key words now. We want to know who's out there. Other than that I like Cabert idea of researching meditation to open Theology and later paper. It's really good if we spawn a GP instead of a GS. Is christianity founded? Or is it better to hold of religions for now to avoid diplomatic problems when we make contact? I'm thinking the later. Being able to trade is more important than the extra happiness. Of course we could always found the religion and possibly get shrine.
r_rolo1
King of myself
It surely looks that you're isolated ( or at least quasi isolated.... so first advice: scout the NW section, where there is unexplored land.... if you can find a spot that allows ( with a border pop ) to get acess to foreign trade routes ( I would not be suprised if we can do that: Archipelago maps normally have one or 2 spots like that )
Unfortunately HG and Collosus are already out..... ( but there aren't any wonder warehouse capitol and no uber-advanced wonder built, so we should not have much of Fin or Ind civs, a thing that is a good sign ), but overall you're doing fine ( you decided to go through the early contact path via Optics.... Not my prefered path but I agree that we don't have much to develop in this Greenland of ours )
After Machinery + Optics ( it will take a while ) you must go to CS, mainly because your capitol is making most of the heavy lifting ( both
and ) .... Best path ATM would be Maths -> Currency -> CoL-> CS ( hopefully you'll make some backfilling .... )
I suggest that you think in settling somewhere near the furs... I know that the place is horrible, but I think that lifting the would worth it. And it would save some fogbusting units in the north
The religion screen is interesting ( as Kmad pointed ): 4 religions, all with a reasonable spread... Not exactly unexpected in a archipelago map. But that also means that CoL or Theo are still undiscoverd ( I bet on Theo ). I don't think that founding a religion would make much good for us, but keeping a eye on the AP is always a good move...
Unfortunately HG and Collosus are already out..... ( but there aren't any wonder warehouse capitol and no uber-advanced wonder built, so we should not have much of Fin or Ind civs, a thing that is a good sign ), but overall you're doing fine ( you decided to go through the early contact path via Optics.... Not my prefered path but I agree that we don't have much to develop in this Greenland of ours )
After Machinery + Optics ( it will take a while ) you must go to CS, mainly because your capitol is making most of the heavy lifting ( both
and ) .... Best path ATM would be Maths -> Currency -> CoL-> CS ( hopefully you'll make some backfilling .... )I suggest that you think in settling somewhere near the furs... I know that the place is horrible, but I think that lifting the
would worth it. And it would save some fogbusting units in the northThe religion screen is interesting ( as Kmad pointed ): 4 religions, all with a reasonable spread... Not exactly unexpected in a archipelago map. But that also means that CoL or Theo are still undiscoverd ( I bet on Theo ). I don't think that founding a religion would make much good for us, but keeping a eye on the AP is always a good move...
futurehermit
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2006
- Messages
- 5,724
All those people saying to settle on the stone and build the maoi statues in the capital and it still hasn't happened?
I would've gone for the GW first then the GLH. That's the order they usually get built in my experience by the AIs. I would've put SH/GW/Pyr in the capital and the GLH in the other city probably although switching out the pyr/glh depending on worries about them being completed by ais is understandable.
Your city placement was ideal imo. I would question some of the build/research priorities, but overall some pretty solid play here imo.
I would've gone for the GW first then the GLH. That's the order they usually get built in my experience by the AIs. I would've put SH/GW/Pyr in the capital and the GLH in the other city probably although switching out the pyr/glh depending on worries about them being completed by ais is understandable.
Your city placement was ideal imo. I would question some of the build/research priorities, but overall some pretty solid play here imo.
All those people saying to settle on the stone and build the maoi statues in the capital and it still hasn't happened?
...
Your city placement was ideal imo. I would question some of the build/research priorities, but overall some pretty solid play here imo.
Seconded. Great work getting stonehenge and placing the city that needed a border pop to be any good.
I've seen myself play far worse starts and have far worse land on this kind of set up, so kudos. Slightly worried that the potential island chains top left and top right will be worthless tundra, though.
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