ALC Game #24: Hammurabi/Babylon

[SnowlyWhite]

darius will go for liberalism more or less out of the bat; anyway, him and ragnar are probably the threats in your game(so far). Ragnar could also be useful since with same religion and while in hr you should have him at friendly and as your pet. But a darius without anyone to keep him in check(he builds way to few troops)...

saladin... well, hopefully he'll build the ap since he'll run for theo due to fav. civic and you'll get to enjoy the hammers. Plus his land is nothin' to cheer about. He's also easy to get to friendly with and then hopefully when you'll bribe one to declare on darius the other will be bribed by the 1st too.

with marble you should go glib imho; eventually parth too. So if you go col -> aesthetics, go col via poly, not mono(anyway you won't probably build monasteries too soon since you'll be hammer poor due to scientists).

I don't know about this map type, but anyway there doesn't seem to be any great bureau capitol; which is one more argument for the spot with 2 fishies and the pig as vital for globe/draft(with a couple of workshops while you'll be in caste for gses, globe shouldn't take too much).

the banana/sugar location is tempting, especially if you plant 2-3 cottages along the river so it supports itself immediately(you have precisely 2 happy sources, 3 if you get the gold, so the sugar wouldn't hurt, nor would the banana, though it doesn't give happiness). The culture slider might be empty, contrary to ce case, but you'll still have to pay your bills...

Basically, the 2 fish, the banana/sugar and the pig/gold/fish(which should pay for itself) I'd say are the targets. The 4th location maybe being on the island nw? Interncontinental trade routs are always good...

and I'd take 2 wbs out asap to send 1 nw, 1 ne; close ob with darius(you're just boosting the research of an already good techer) till you get sailing.

 

[patagonia]

You know, I'd rather go Alphabet (try to trade it for Iron Working at least) -> Currency -> trade stuff for Priesthood and prereqs -> Code of Laws. Going for Monarchy and bigger cities while we can't even sustain the current ones is inefficient.

The problem with going alphabet first is that you're unlikely to beat the AI to it, which means the only benefit you can guarantee is being able to build research. That shouldn't be underestimated early on, but being able to grow cities and increase income/reduce expenses is more important.

Considering the diplomatic situation here is slightly more complicated than in the Lincoln game, burning a bunch of tech trades early on cheap techs like meditation/priesthood etc probably isn't the best idea in the world either.

Quick HR has the added bonus of putting you in Ragnar's favourite civic, which will warm him up slightly once he adopts it himself.

 

[carl corey]

I don't know, I'd have thought that if they intended to research Alphabet they would have done so by now. I've seen a lot of games in which everyone delayed Alphabet and waiting for someone else to get it hurt a lot. Although I play on Emperor, not Immortal, so this might differ. I'd still have researched Alphabet instead of HBR. Maybe even bulb Math with the first GS to make Currency cheaper. Being aggressive & organized plus having elephants just screams "take over the continent as early as possible", so I don't really care about WFYABTA...

 

[JTMacc99]

Well, at least the research put into HBR will make it easier to pick it up in a trade down the road. (is there a "silver lining" smiley?)

You know... if you either found a city or capture the Barb one, you will have a border city with no religion in it. I'm just sayin', it would be kind of sitting there, looking across the border and going , "hey, we're a bunch of pagans, and are looking for somebody to show us the light."


Interestingly, what I'm looking forward to seeing is not the immediate "pull the economy out of the tank post-war period", but rather the next move after stablization. It is clearly my weak point. I just get carried away with research and buildings, and constantly forget to keep expanding (aka: capturing cities) while I still have the upper hand.

 

[Kev]

Taking the barb city would also give you the benefit of a city without religion (so too would a distant gold city if you decide to go there), so hopefully this might be a target for a missionary quickly. Few extra coins for taking it too.

Would it be a workable play to tech Math and then go after a different direction (through Monarchy or the path toward COL)? With Math in hand, it would mean the coming Great Scientist would bulb alphabet for you, and possibly mean it's in early enough to be trade fodder itself.

Would it be possible to get Math then head toward Monarchy figuring when you bulb Alphabet you can pick up the COL prerequisites via trade (or even begging if you can get a shared religion in that time frame)?

 

[r_rolo1]

The GS will bulb maths now.

 

[Kev]

The GS will bulb maths now.

That's why I'm saying research math now so when it does arrive it can bulb Alphabet.

 

[r_rolo1]

At current tech rate, it will take more than 60 turns to get Maths. GS is due in 17 turns. Given that almost all the research comes form the 2 scientists hired in Babylon, You would need to hire 6 more scientists to make feasible to finish maths before the GS comes, a thing that S man empire can't hold for a long time.

And we know how he hates to have GP hanging around.....

 

[Kev]

At current tech rate, it will take more than 60 turns to get Maths. GS is due in 17 turns. Given that almost all the research comes form the 2 scientists hired in Babylon, You would need to hire 6 more scientists to make feasible to finish maths before the GS comes, a thing that S man empire can't hold for a long time.

And we know how he hates to have GP hanging around.....

I'm thinking the tech rate would be upped given the cash we have on hand. I think others in previous posts pointed out that Math would be in well before the 17-turn wait....

 

[r_rolo1]

I would not be so hasty in spending the cash. S man has plans for atleast 2 more cities in the near future, and sinking the money in rearch of math can make that completely unviable.

 

[Kev]

I would not be so hasty in spending the cash. S man has plans for atleast 2 more cities in the near future, and sinking the money in rearch of math can make that completely unviable.

Teching SOMETHING will be a necessity. There have been several different routes suggested - Med/Priest/COL, Monarchy, Math/Alpha. Most likely assume sailing to be done prior.

During this time I believe the standard plan would be the taking of the barb city and building roads toward Saladin and locating Darius. Both will help our finances by providing trade routes. Further, growing (for scientists) and cottaging would also provide some help along these lines.

My thought on going to Math then starting on Monarchy was for the hopes of bulbing Alphabet in 17 turns with the GS and having enough of Monarchy done to be able to trade for the remainder (along with hopefully the pre-requs for COL). Math for better chopping and for the currency line, Monarchy for (as has been suggested) HR to grow cities further and help the finances. From there try to get COL and Currency to stabilize things.

 

[r_rolo1]

You still have to get 2 techs to even start Monarchy

 

[civ4legs]

First off, great job so far: I think your performance in dealing with Zara has been a step above the last couple games.

I agree with the critics wrt horseback riding instead of beelining for CoL, and for not scouting the rest of the continent, but your slick MM makes up for that in my mind

Going forward, a combination of cheap courthouses and a shrine and your economy should be right back on its feet. Some early-ish cottages will fatten up quickly enough, though with some of your food rich cities some scientists (possibly caste system-ed) will help, though that may interfere with popping a prophet, which really needs to happen asap.

I would tend to NOT change to christianity: we want saladin to mind his own business long enough for you to build up the army that takes him out. OR would be a nice boost to building, but perhaps it's worth getting extra hammers from the whip/chopping. You can get happiness from a temple even without switching SR...

Oh, I also like your idea of keeping your city raiders ready to take the barb city should another civ take interest in it; I've used that trick many times, to great effect.

 

[Kev]

You still have to get 2 techs to even start Monarchy

Dang. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[CivCorpse]

darius will go for liberalism more or less out of the bat; .

Mixed metaphor alert: It's right off the bat or right out of the gate. LOL

 

[CivCorpse]

You still have to get 2 techs to even start Monarchy

@100% deficit spending Sis can research them both in a combined 10 turns. Then After CoL, he can bulb Math and start currency.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

I implied it before and several others have stated it openly: Monarchy is the tech that will ultimately pull Sisiutil's economy out of the dumps.

 

[CivCorpse]

I implied it before and several others have stated it openly: Monarchy is the tech that will ultimately pull Sisiutil's economy out of the dumps.

Eventually, but right now it does very little to stop the slide. Adding unit upkeep to an already fragile economy is not the immediate solution. If you buiold one unit to support an extra citizen to work a cottage you are losing gold for the first 15 turns of that citizens in the game. The cottage provides 1 commerce for the first 15 turns. At 0% science that is exactly the 1 gold the unit costs in support. Add in the increased city maintainence due to a higher population and you are losing gold AND you have to drop the slider to pay for the unit. Sis can only run 2 scientists per city and does not need to raise the happy cap to run them.
CoL enables him to use 1/2 price courthouses to significantly cut his city costs. Right now his city costs are 12gpt, that number will increase once the last city comes out of revolt, and will continue to increase as the cities grow towards the happy cap. Using aksum as a guide we can assume 4gpt for the revolting city and atleast 4 more gpt empire wide for increased population. Once the gold is gone monarchy will do very little in the way of stopping the IMMEDIATE problem of being broke. And actually adds to the cash flow problem with increased city mainainance from growing population. He currently has 19 military units. Some will be needed to fogbust and further explore. Leaving about 3 per city for added happiness. Even if they are working hamlets, sis gets more beakers from scientists. Babylon has a glut of food that is going to waste. Even at pop 7(with a temple) it could be running 4 scientists. Or merchants.

On an unrelated note: Don't forget the pilliage gold we can get from the barb city. That could be just enough to finish CoL. before the money runs out.

 

[scottvwgti]

On an unrelated note: Don't forget the pilliage gold we can get from the barb city. That could be just enough to finish CoL. before the money runs out.

I agree with CivCorpse on this one. However, as a footnote, I would still wait until either Saladin makes a move on the barb city, or your gold is getting close to zero. Remember that another city will incure more maintenance cost.

 

[Rubbaduck]

I say CoL ASAP. Courthouse are a priority right now, and caste system could be handy in picking the other economicals, Babylon would like some scientists, though slavery might be needed to build the courthouses...