ALC Game #25: Celts/Boudica

[Gliese 581]

Yeah the granaries are probably not the best idea here, it would be better to just chop out the army and use a 2 pop whip in the capital followed by a 1-pop whip in each city to finish up production. Since they're already halfway done though.. don't know.

 

[Gliese 581]

I am thinking for the UB for illustration purposes. The gold from capturing the cities will allow him enough time to tech AH and writing I am pretty sure.

Unless he's also going to tech archery there's nothing the UB would benefit, GWs already get guerilla and axemen and spearmen can't get it. Axes+spears will defend better under just about any circumstance compared to a guerilla archer anyhow.
The duns could possibly be used later for some gunpowder unit shenanigans.

 

[CivCorpse]

I am in favor of writing as the next tech. Once the economy crashes having scientists is muy bueno. Followed by med->priesthood and CoL. With Gold, Silver and Jumbos Monarchy can be dlayed a bit longer. especially with a Charasmatic leader with the Henge.
Once mecca is absorbed into the great Celtic empire and CoL is discovered, running a spy specialist in Mecca combined with the GW stands a good chance of generating a great spy. Infiltrating Mansa is better than trading with him. A. You will rarely have techs Mansa does not have. B. They are cheaper when ya steal them. C. When you infiltrate an AI they go into espionage panic mode and adjust the slider to try and compensate thus slowing him a little bit. Even with sal's lands, sis is not going to outtech MR Techwhoresupremo.
I list meditation as the path ratrher than Poly because I think rather than settling a GS or an academy. Bulbing Philo is the key. I am concerned that sis may run into the problem he had in the saladin game when the entire continent was religionless. This kept him from running any religious techs. If he can found the only religion on the continent it will autospread to every city. Thus a nice shrine without investing in missionaries.
RE: Chop/whip a settler. Before the granary to try and grab one more city site. Maybe 1S of the cows to block mansa from plopping a city there. A third city can really help with troopage. Then The Holy War between the athiests. I would focus on taking Medina, Mecca and any cities between Mecca and Celtia. Or cities with Jumbos. This seals off the western pennisula. I wouldn't try it with a msall stack. Think 10-12 GW's and one axe one spearman for defending any cities you take. That is a minimum. He is protective and will have cultural defenses due to Stonehenge. Taking saladin out completely will either crash the economy by keeping the cities. Or open up more land for Mansa to settle if they are razed. Taking a few prime city locations will give Sis a strong core empire with a few nice cities to the west. He will have a strong land advantage as well as population due to charasmatic plus resources. Saladin will be reduced to a small blob that is just holding spaces for Sis. After getting philo from a bulb. Math/construction/HBR unlocks cats and jumbos. At this point he should have a strong production base to pump out units. As well as a stable shrine boosted economy to support a war. Wipe saladin off the map, shortly followed by Mansa. No Vassals. Kill Kill and Kill.

 

[Dhaulagiri]

There's 3 things that determine how long you can wait before taking on Saladin.

His hooking up the iron. Keep a unit near by to see when this starts to happen. Declare war before he completes this.

Saladin researching construction. GW's aren't good vs elephants so you have to attack before this. Might want to send a couple pillagers to ivory at the beginning of the war in case he researches it while war is in progress.

Saladin researching HBR. Same deal if he has horses.

So you should have time for duns and UU's and even another city near the deer and cows NE. I've never played at this difficulty level so you guys would have a better idea when to expect Salading researching HBR or construction. Maybe adjust espionage slider so you know, although Mansa might trade them to him.

You should be ok without catapults by making use of the hill movement. That gives him less time to whip archer defenders so you should be able to take a city with 2 to 1 unit advantage early on before you get promotions. Catapults would be better but you risk him getting construction too, and he has ivory.

 

[azzaman333]

Get in quick. The quicker Medina and Mecca are yours, the quicker you can focus on Mansa "I'd sell my first born for shiny new technology" Musa.

 

[vicawoo]

Saladin has iron. Since you don't have a large enough army, you'll have to get catapults. Saladin has the highest score, almost twice yours, so worst case is he has at least 3 more cities you can't see. At worst you could have taken medina earlier.

 

[Peachrocks]

Elephants need HBR and construction. We hopefully won't have to worry about those for a while yet. Still, I wouldn't want to leave it much longer but I think Sis is still perfectly fine for Gallic rush.

 

[jerVL/kg]

Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin Kill Saladin


...did I mention Kill Saladin?

 

[DanF5771]

Saladin has iron. Since you don't have a large enough army, you'll have to get catapults. Saladin has the highest score, almost twice yours, so worst case is he has at least 3 more cities you can't see. At worst you could have taken medina earlier.

There are no other cities in Saladin's Trade Screen.

Something worrying:

No time for a dirty dozen of GWs, better hurry up. I'd suggest killing the western Barb Archer with one of your Axes, then promoting the Axe to Woody2 and sending him plus a Guerrilla2 GW to Sal's Iron-->prevent mine/pillage mine. Fortified Axes behind protective Walls spoil all the UU-fun. Let him build his Pro Archers instead or even better Chariots (?).

 

[oyzar]

Could be hbr.. you never know with the AI(not that it is particulary better that sal builds HA's...).

 

[v8_mark]

If it's HBR that's arguably even more of a worry....as it's only a hop, skip and a jump to Elephants. Especially with a tech-whore partner who's likely to be able to trade Mathematics.

 

[JTMacc99]

I LOVE CivCorpse's plan of attack.

-- A shrine would be a spectacular addition to the Celtic war machine.
-- Stealing techs from MM is an outstanding idea for dealing with him. It both slows down his research AND nets you some lovely techs to use against him.
-- Killing MM with jumbos and cats is BY FAR the best way to REX when you are Boudica.

 

[r_rolo1]

Sis has 4 axes. It is not enough to wage war, but it is certainly enough to disrupt the Arab iron supply. Sal will respond to this by building archers ( or chariots ). It is a bad call, but its definitely better than facing axes or swords in the middle of those pro archers.......

About techs: Writing is definitely the way to go now.

 

[Kev]

I like the disruption ideas being floated for Sal - especially with the iron. Still need to scout to see if he has more iron or copper somewhere, but this strat would REALLY work well if we can time it with some worker kidnaps.

I'd love to see a unit near the cows (the ones south of Medina currently in that city's possession) and then some near the iron - perhaps Sal will be working both when we decide to move in...

 

[Joshua368]

In my own opinion at this point of the game I'd be slightly delaying the whole thing for construction and catapults. I'm not entirely sure you'll be able to whip up a decent army fast enough but I'll definitely be watching how it goes with interest.

 

[CivCorpse]

We know Sal has Masonry so expect walls, especially if he has stone which is a possibility since we got both the GW and Stonehenge. We also do not know if that is his only source or iron/copper. Protective archers behind walls with cultural defense will require a real army not a "rush". Sis needs a 3rd city to help with the whipping/rushing of these units. It is also unknown how much land sal has to the north to settle. And if it also contains metal. A half-arse rush without a proper army could and should lead to disaster. Focus all EPs towards Sal in order to be able to see his research. This will give Sis a better idea of when to strike.

 

[whakamole]

Couple of minor micro-manage observations:

1) Vienne is able to whip the granary. Your citizen on the spice tile isn't providing too much to the cause. Whip the granary, then your worker can chop out a Gallic Warrior.

2) The road between your cities is a little sub-optimal, crossing a river twice. That'll delay your unit movement until you get bridge building. A better road would have gone to the tile north of Bibracte, avoiding river crossings. (And this road can still be built!)

 

[Gliese 581]

We are kind of groping in the dark here without a unit scouting Saladin's lands.

 

[Scarredroman]

The time for a second scout was at the outset, but you followed CivCorpse's advice. It's too late now.

The road is on the wrong side of the river. It'll take 3 turns before Engineering to get to the Vienne side of the river; it's as quick to walk.

Saladin's been building wonders. Why would that change? It's more likely that Sal will be going Pyramids in Mecca. He's not likely to have walls in Mecca with the wonders he's built.

Medina doesn't have a heck of a lot of production, its a GP farm - good for GP. workers and settlers. Not likely to have more than 2 archers. Sisiutil's 4 axes and 1 warrior can take that force. Boudica doesn't have the resources to compete with either Sal or Mans, certainly not without the hills mined. Time to gamble.

 

[oyzar]

Walls cost nothing with stone and protective and immortal eh? He'll build them for sure but it won't cost him anything...