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ALC Game 29: France/De Gaulle

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Benginal, Dec 27, 2010.

  1. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    All Leaders Challenge Game 29: France/De Gaulle
    Played with the Beyond the Sword expansion pack



    Round 0: Move the Scout
    Round 1: 4000 BC to 2720 BC (32 turns)
    Round 2: 2720 BC to 1760 BC (24 turns)
    Round 3: 1760 BC to 400 BC (33 turns)
    Round 4: 400 BC to 540 AD (38 turns)
    Round 5: 540 AD to 1110 AD (34 turns)
    Round 6: 1110 AD to 1320 AD (21 turns)
    Round 7: 1320 AD to 1625 AD (43 turns)
    Round 8: 1625 AD - 1898 AD (84 turns)
    Post Mortem

    Introduction

    The idea of the All Leaders Challenge is that games are going to be played with each of the Civ IV leaders. With the help of all the posters who participate, an attempt will be made to make the most of the leader's unique characteristics: traits, starting techs, unit, and building. Aside from the leader, the other game settings are (mostly) kept constant for the sake of comparison. I will post the saved game files, screenshots, and status reports here as the game progresses.

    Everyone is invited to offer opinions and advice, and to make your own attempt at playing the same game. But if you do play a "shadow game", I kindly request that you refrain from posting spoilers--i.e. any facts or even hints about the map, opponents, and so on--before I'm there myself. I'm trying to play the game as authentically as possible.

    In this ALC game I’ll be playing as De Gaulle of the French. I really like this leader, not for his unique building and unique unit, but for his two awesome traits. I'll try to keep the spirit of the ALCs alive and do something with the unique things the French have to offer, but don't be surprised if they both see limited play. On the other hand, I hope to get lots of mileage out of both of De Gaulle's traits in this ALC.

    Traits

    Industrious:
    gives us the ability to build wonders 50% faster than we can normally build them and double production speed of forges. The industrious trait is one of my favorites. I'm a fan both of wonders and of forges and this trait makes them all come quicker. It is worth noting that the wonder building bonuses like marble and stone stack with industrious, meaning that should we see these resources we can build wonders in record times. Forges are extremely useful buildings throughout all of the game. Unfortunately I often have to put off building them longer than I'd like because of their large expense. But at half price, they are much more reasonable. Hopefully, our empire will also contain some gold, silver, or gems making the forge a :hammers: and :) increasing building.

    Charismatic: gives us +1 :) per city, 25% less XP needed for promotions, and +1 :) from monuments and broadcast towers. This trait is super. The extra 2 happiness is great for getting large cities early in the game. The XP bonus allows us to build a well-trained army easily and increases our chances of getting an early level 4 unit for the Heroic Epic. Given our two traits, I think Stonehenge is going to be a must-build.

    Starting Techs: Agriculture and The Wheel


    This is probably the best starting tech combination in the game, which is going to make up for the lousy unique stuff. Kossin would be disappointed if I didn't point out that these are the two most expensive early techs and we get them both for free. Other reasons these two techs are awesome is because they are both extremely useful in every game, they're pre-requisites for many other techs, and having them means our workers will always be busy,

    Unique Unit: Musketeer


    The musketeer is exactly like the musketman except that it has two movement points instead of one. This UU is no oromo, but it's not complete trash. Its two movement ability means that it can be treated like a less powerful, but earlier, cuirassier. If we beeline gunpowder, we might be able to get musketeers early enough for them to serve some purpose. We would do well to remember that we are charismatic, which means that units that were once not so good, now become better quicker.

    Unique Building: Salon


    The salon is an observatory that gives each city a free artist. This UB is one of the worst in the game, but if we look at the bright side, there are some positive things to say about it. If we are running representation, building a salon gives us not just a 25% :science: increase but also another 3 :science: from the specialist. If we have many cities come the Renaissance, we should be able to get quite a few of these specialists up and running quickly. Also, people hate on Great Artists a lot, but I'm not that down on them. I find it unlikely that I mass build a bunch of salons, the way I will forges, but I'll try to give the salon a fighting chance in proving its utility.

    Starting Position

    In this ALC game, I'll be playing as De Gaulle, leader of the French, and manager of a major Parisian airport. I'm playing the game using the Beyond the Sword expansion pack and its latest patch. The difficulty level is Emperor, the map is Fractal, and the speed is Normal. I’m leaving all the boxes unchecked except for huts and events, both of which are off. All victory conditions are enabled. If you have any questions about why I picked what I did, feel free to ask.

    Here is a more detailed look at the initial game settings:



    Here's a reminder as to De Gaulle's unique characteristics:



    And, finally, here is the starting position:



    Well this start is certainly interesting. I'm not sure if you can tell in the posted picture, but 2N of the warrior is coast. We can see two happiness resources, both of which we can get online pretty early. Also visible is a wet corn, and a lot of riverside grassland.

    Points of Discussion


    1. How do we best use De Gaulle's traits and unique unit and building to lead us to victory?
    2. What strategies should we think about pursuing short term or long term (like building Stonehenge)?
    3. Where should we move the warrior?

    We'll do similarly to the last ALC and move the warrior before deciding on where to settle. I wait for your thoughts on De Gaulle, the French, and the warrior movement with impatience.
     
  2. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Artists only give 1 beaker ;)

    You have a lot of trees/good prod and decent commerce with those riverside elephants.

    Oracle is a good option in this case.
     
  3. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Looks like it'll make a solid production city for wonder spamming. I think the tile 2S of the Settler is a grassland hill, but the picture is too small to be certain, any chance of a 4000BC save for shadows?

    *EDIT no its just a different type of forest on flat grassland :(

    Anyway, i'm all for SIP unless the Warrior turns something up.
     
  4. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    This left me confused for a moment. In my original post I meant that we'd be getting three :science: from them if we were running representation. As it turns out, we'd be getting four :science: since they already provide one :science:. I guess I never knew about the one beaker they provide when not in representation. Shame on me.

    Yupyup, I'm excited. It'll give me a chance to work on optimizing my chopping.

    I agree. Monarchy and Metal Casting, the two techs I usually take from the Oracle, are both good here. Monarchy will allow us to improve the wine and grow our cities. Metal Casting will let us build cheap forges. I think that happiness should be okay for longer than normal due to our traits, so I'm thinking Metal Casting as our free tech.

    I would post an image with what I think is in every fogged square, but I'm not that hardcore, :p. The save is up, both so that you can look around and play a shadow if you'd like.
     
  5. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Yeah I checked the save and edited my post after, they are just a different kind of trees causing them to be higher, not a hill :lol:

    Also I have played a shadow till 1280BC so far,
    Spoiler :
    Definately an interesting one with a very, very close neighbour indeed!
    Marble to the east is nice, started a wonderspam game based in the capital. I've done lots of these recently :crazyeye:.

    Got Stonehenge and ToA so far and 1 turn from Oracle, going after Pyramids next and it appears a Chinese city is going to flip to me soon. All going well so far but I am expecting a war sooner rather than later!
     
  6. Yoshi1

    Yoshi1 Warlord

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    Think you mean incense? ;)
    I would never take monarchy with this leader from the oracle, even if i had 5 wines around i think.
     
  7. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    Wow, :rolleyes:, I'm ridiculous. That is indeed, as you say, incense and not wine. And alright, assuming I get the oracle, metal casting it is.
     
  8. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    ^^^someone lit the wine on fire - either that, or it's the rare Molotov cocktail resource
     
  9. Yoshi1

    Yoshi1 Warlord

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    btw i think the Musketeer is a very good unit if not playing Deity, when i still played lower diff. i had some pretty good rushes using them. There is no counter unit, and well needless to say that the AI is not smart enough to keep up with 2 movement troops who are not easy victims when being attacked.
     
  10. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    I'm not sure what you mean about the no counter unit. By the time musketeers are around longbows are already protecting AI cities. Musketeers can't take out longbows by themselves. Bringing along siege is slow and defeats the whole point of their speed. It might be alright if we used spies to revolt cities and and then attacked, but longbows are still a pain to attack.

    If you are suggesting using the musketeers as a pillaging unit I can understand. They're fast, making the good pillagers, and strong enough defenders to not have to worry about getting attacked in the open field. I rarely pillage heavily, or declare war just for the sake of pillaging, but maybe we can give that a try here.
     
  11. deckoff9

    deckoff9 Chieftain

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    since france doesnt start with mining and you have 2 ivory tiles my usual mining -> bw path doesnt seem so good. I'd agree with kossin and go hunting and then go to priesthood while getting stonehenge along the way.

    i actually played this game to about 85 turns. do you mind if i discuss it in spoilers?
     
  12. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    The tech path is definitely worth some discussion. I'm a big fan of stonehenge with this trait combination, so I want mysticism early. My current plan is to go Hunting -> Mysticism -> Mining -> Bronze Working -> Polytheism -> Priesthood -> Pottery. I think this will allow our workers to stay busy and useful and give us Mysticism and Priesthood soon enough to get Stonehenge and the Oracle for Metal Casting.

    That's fine. I won't comment on it until much later as I don't want to be influenced by your play. But yeah, feel free to play along and post your results in spoilers.
     
  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I like your tech path here and also like Stonehenge for this trait combo, although I usually avoid building it. I've played some and this is an interesting start. I'll be interested in what early decision you make.
     
  14. deckoff9

    deckoff9 Chieftain

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    until turn 55

    Spoiler :


    did something i never do, which is go for oracle. met mao real early and saw how close he was. decided early religion would be good since he didnt have one so went for col from oracle instead of metal casting.

    tech went hunting -> mysticism -> meditation -> priesthood -> writing -> mining -> bw.

    capital went worker -> stonehenge -> oracle.

    seeing the bottle neck at the north and how close mao was didnt feel like barbs were much an issue. just got bw and now is gonna go for tgl i think. after that not sure. mao isnt that religious so hes still a dow threat. probably just gonna tech to elephants and kill him, while trying to spread my religion to the other 2 ais. bit hard with toku though since he doesnt open border -_-




    great prophet in 12 turns for the shrine.
     
  15. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    Round 0: Move the Warrior


    I thought for quite a while about where to move the warrior. The general rule of thumb I use is to move the warrior where I'm most interested in moving my settler for a potential capital site. In this case, I was considering settling in place. So, I went to my next rule which is to move the warrior/scout in such a way as to uncover the most tiles possible. So I moved the warrior 1 NE up to the coast to look for fish which might influence my settling decision. I found the following:



    I used to never settle one off the coast. But I've found that this rule isn't necessarily that great. If I were to move to the coast I'd lose riverside grassland and gain some non-financial coast tiles and some riverside plains. After a few seconds of thought, I decided that the benefits of coastal (can build boats, the colossus, and the coastal trade route buildings) were not outweighed by bureau powered, riverside grassland cottages.

    Discussion Points


    1. Where should we settle? I'm all for settling in place, but I'm interested to hear any dissenting opinions.
    2. What should our tech path be? Earlier I said the following. I'm a big fan of stonehenge with this trait combination, so I want mysticism early. My current plan is to go Hunting -> Mysticism -> Mining -> Bronze Working -> Polytheism -> Priesthood -> Pottery. I think this will allow our workers to stay busy and useful and give us Mysticism and Priesthood soon enough to get Stonehenge and the Oracle for Metal Casting. Anything you guys have to offer I'd appreciate.
    3. What build order should we use? I'm thinking worker -> warrior -> stonehenge -> warrior -> warrior -> worker. I'm not quite sure how quickly these will come. When should we build our first settler? Earlier than this? Do I need that many warriors? I guess that kind of depends on how much potential barb spawning land there is around my capital. What do you guys think?
     
  16. Gwynnja

    Gwynnja Deity

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    I like SIP, or else on top of the southern ivory. Build order, I would build two or three exploring warriors before stonehenge. I would also try to squeeze in AH before going up the poly>priesthood line.
     
  17. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    I like SIP, Hunting->min->bw has a lot of sense. Tough to comment more.
    Oracle idea is good. Stonehenge with this leader probably too.

    If you use fractal you should have 3 hills in bfc if i remember correctly so they are probably foged. Another reason not to move.
     
  18. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

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    I agree with either SIP or on top of the southern ivory. I wouldn't give too much about the 1 tile from the coast settling since there is so little to gain and so much to loose by going to the coast.
     
  19. yena

    yena King

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    I'd settle in place. You'd give up at least one mine by moving to the southern ivory, and the land looks browner over there.
     
  20. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

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    SIP is propably better. If a sea food resource would pop up in the upper right corner then there is room for another city. Move to the southern ivory and that spot is gone. Better to be save then sorry when I think of it.
     

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