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ALC Game #8: Alexander/Greece

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Sisiutil, Aug 19, 2006.

  1. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    Conquest would have been more straightforward if you'd decided earlier rather than initially looking for domination. You wouldn't have built iceburgs and been more selective about Liz's cities; you can still do it of course its just that it now means razing virtually everything (btw if you're razing everything you don't need to worry so much about defensive terrain coz you've got nothing to defend).
    A lesson to the boys and girls out there about the disadvantages of switching horses mid-race. Focus, focus, focus.
     
  2. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

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    I can only say one thing in the words of warcraft III "SCORCHED EARTH". Take a couple of cyrus cities, raze everything else like a mad man. Save Hatty for last to have at least a fight in which you are going to loose some but then again if you get flight she will not be able to defend against 20+ bombers. So who cares about infantry? I wouldn't.

    But then the trading???? Argh. I would renegotiate all of those things. You are virtually throwing away resources for nothing. If you cut away most of the deals you will cripple the enemy like mad. Hatty will have 3 health resources less. Well good luck with her size 20 cities.

    I do have to applaud you however on your wonder spree. Taking over the continent and building almost every wonder possible is to say the least impressive. Keep it up.
     
  3. Welnic

    Welnic Emperor

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    You could give Iceberg to Hatty
     
  4. Phrederick

    Phrederick Warlord

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    That's actually a pretty good idea, although somewhat counterintuitive.
     
  5. pax

    pax Chieftain

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    Well, I'm glad my small words had some effect.... :D And wasn't it Alexander who stood on the hill and wept, for he saw he had no more worlds to conquer?

    Here are a few lessons learned from attempting conquest victories:
    1. Pick cities for the resource(s) they'll give you. You already started analyzing targets for this, which is good.
    2. Keep in mind that as you raze neighboring cities, that frees up land for your base city to culturally assimilate. Be careful about expansions and culture. Not too much of a worry unless you build a lot of culture into a city.
    3. Assess technology in the long run. Destroyers are great. Carriers are fun. Marines are indispensible. And it seems like you'll hit the Air Age for at least some of the coming battles, which leads me to
    4. Pick cities according to their strategic placement. More than defending an entire peninsula, consider the range of your (eventual) air force. Yes, this runs counter to 1), but it's a huge benefit to have an airbase that can strike most of the continent. Consider that keeping Tlacopan and Tarsus puts all but four cities within range of Stealth Bombers. Alternatively, Xochicalco (sp?), Sardis and Alexandria are all ocean-accessible and provide fairly decent coverage, even with bombers. I think almost all cities can be attacked by fighters on carriers. Remember that fighters don't do collateral damage and bombers do.
    5. Use revolt to your advantage. I kept two cities in the northern part of my final continent because they made terrific airbases. If they had settled down into the empire, I would have won an (unwanted) domination victory. But, I was advancing fast enough that I didn't have to worry. Most big cities will have at least 10 turns of revolt. Use it wisely, but be careful, as you're lighting the fuse on your conquest victory once you decide to keep a city that would put you over the domination limit.
    6. If you settle or come to truly own a city (have generated significant culture or have more than 50% of the population as Greek, I believe) and give it away (avoiding domination), it's still "yours" for a long time. I had used two GAs to culture bomb two separate cities. As I started my conquest drive, I discovered that I was getting close to the limit. I gave one city to a neutral party (Saladin). When I got around to taking him out, I decided to test what would happen if I retook the gifted city (this was, maybe, 10 turns later). Boom! No revolt, instant return to pre-gift borders. :wallbash:
    7. Blitz is fun. :goodjob: Throw in some protective tanks to keep the blitzers covered. Be careful with attacking hill cities, as you won't get blitz and your last attacker will be stranded.

    Good luck with the conquest of Egypertec/Azpergypt. I'm looking forward to the ride.
     
  6. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    Hey, Sisiutil, when you do the whole amphibious invasion thing, could you list the number of troops and their types in your recap? I'm curious how many units you're going to bring over. That's the biggest weakness in my military gameplan when I play: attacking another continent. :confused:

    If you could list the stats, I'd be interested to see. :D
     
  7. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Do consider the merits of finishing the game quickly and moving on to the next ALC. What good is there in unnecessarily prolonging a game that has, to all intents and purposes, been won? I suppose you could demonstrate the joint/Sirian doctrine, but it's going to be tedious work for something that is quite simple. What's so difficult about building a fleet of ships and airplanes to accompany your invasion force when you so much productive capability? And bombarding defenses or units is as easy as clicking on some buttons. Razing cities to get conquest isn't anything amazing either.
     
  8. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    Round 8: to 1870 AD

    Let me just start off by saying that I was extremely honoured and humbled to find both of my strategy articles included in the new Civ IV War Academy. Thank you very much to the folks who put it together for that honour.

    Anyway, on to the summary of this game's round.

    I started off by implementing some of the trade advice several of you gave me and renegotiated several of my deals with Hatshepsut and Cyrus:



    I then went back to each of them and took each one's totat GPT for one resource. I was especially hoping to cripple Hatty by doing this, since I was pretty sure I was competing with her to build the Kremlin--and she had a head start. By taking away some of the healthy/happy resources I'd been selling her, I hoped that whichever city she had building the wonder would lose enough production for me to catch up.

    No such luck!



    Oh well, it's not THAT crucial a wonder at this point, and heaven knows I've had my share of them in this game.

    I had put off a civics change in hopes of snagging this wonder; I put it off a couple more turns until I had railroads so my workers would have something to do during the 2 turns of anarchy. Then I made the change:



    I spent several turns getting my invasion forces ready. I know a couple of people asked for a list of units, but I'm sorry, that's VERY tedious work! Suffice it to say that I had two invasion armadas--one on my west coast and one on my east. Each one consisted of about 6 Frigates and 10 Galleons.

    The Galleons were loaded with a mix of units. Each stack had about 3 Cavalry, 6-10 City Raider Grenadiers and/or Rifles, 6-10 Cannon, about 6-10 "defensive" units (Grenadiers and/or Rifles with Combat, Pinch, and Formation promotions), and one Phalanx with a Medic promotion. One of the Frigates in each armada had a medic promotion as well.

    I waited until the ships were positioned so I could take the two initial target cities, Sardis and Tyre, in the same turn. I already had five Frigates at anchor outside each city, and when each armada was 1 turn from the target, I declared war.



    The Frigates then moved in on each city and unleashed a round of bombardment. As I'd hoped, 5 Frigates managed to pretty much cut the city defenses in half. So on the next turn, the Frigates were able to eliminate the defense bonus completely:



    The following two shots will give you an idea as to the opposition I was facing, and what I had to attack with:





    I attacked first with almost all of my Cannons, especially those that had a City Raider promotion, hoping to do not only collateral damage, but also to weaken the city's best defender. These Cannons were pretty much doomed--following the Syrian Doctrine and attacking off a ship gave a big +50% bonus to the defending unit. Nonetheless, a couple of the Cannons managed to withdraw. I did not attack with all available Cannons; I saved one Combat I/Barrage I Cannon to defend the city, to use against a counter-attacking stack.

    Once the Cannons were finished, I attacked with my City Raider units. Most of these were Grenadiers. Since the AI seems to favour Riflemen for defending, this worked out well. I didn't lose a single one. Eventually the Rifles were gone and I was able to use the CR Rifles I had to take out the defending Cavalry:



    Even so, Cyrus had a LOT of defenders. So I wound up using some of my Cavalry and "defensive" units to finish the attack on the city:



    End result: I captured the city and got a free Worker in the bargain.



    I then loaded the city with every defensive unit with a movement point left: about 3 Cavalry and the same number of Rifles, 2 Grenadiers, even that Medic I Phalanx and my 4 Accuracy Catapults! No sense taking any chances.

    Tyre fell much more easily, as it only had four defenders, but it fell much the same way.

    To make a long story short, each flotilla of Frigates sailed south, and within a couple of turns I razed the two southern Persian cities, Arbela and Samaria by attacking with my surviving Cannons (lost them all, but I've got reinforcements on the way) and my healed City Raiders. Cyrus' counterattack was one of the weakest I've ever seen--each turn he sent nothing more than a single Cavalry unit at Sardis. Since I had upgraded two Combat II/Pinch Grenadiers to Machine Guns, they didn't stand much of a chance.

    Back home, I completed the Statue of Liberty (yay!) in Medina and the Ironworks in London. I finished researching Assembly Line, I've upgraded all of my Grenadiers and Rifles that are in country to Infantry, and have started on the Pentagon in London:



    London is a production powerhouse, yet it's not optimal. I've throttled its growth because of the health problems posed by all those floodplains (and the loss of Cyrus' sheep). I'd appreciate some advice here--should I just assign those Engineers to tiles, let the city grow, and leave the food surplus to handle the unhealthiness? What about putting Medicine higher in the research queue for a hospital? And should I keep another Persian city (Persepolis or Pasargadae) for the sheep?

    To help in that decision-making regard, here's a look at the victory conditions:



    So, good news for the conquest win goal: we're quite a ways from having the land we need. I haven't worked out the tile count, and, granted, the two captured Persian cities have yet to reclaim their fat crosses, but 51.31% strikes me as being a long, LONG way from the required 64%.

    I'm researching Combustion, which will allow me to upgrade the Frigates to Destroyers and the Galleons to Transports--stronger, faster-moving units all. After Combustion, I'll be able to research Flight. Once I have it, a civics change may be in order. Universal Suffrage would allow me to rush-buy airports; while Nationhood would give me a happy bonus for each barracks, and with the Pentagon, I no longer need Vassalage's XP bonus. It would allow me to stave off using the culture slider to fight WW--I'm going through a lot of gold now, and with all these planned upgrades and rush-buying, I'm going to need more!

    The saved game file:
     
  9. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    I'd just let the city grow. You've got a number of 4 food tiles not in use, so even if it's costing 3 food to support the citizen working it due to unhealthiness you're still coming out ahead, and you're boosting your production in the process. Extra health from things like hospitals will obviously be good, but there's no reason to delay growth waiting for them. Put all the engineers to work and it wouldn't be that long before you can bring them back as specialists with a few more tiles in use. You've got loads to spare on the happiness cap, which would seem the only obvious reason to avoid growth.
     
  10. Eqqman

    Eqqman Walrus

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    I'd agree. London should be growing.
     
  11. pigswill

    pigswill fly (one day)

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    If you're going for conquest finish with a bang - build nukes.
     
  12. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    :eek:

    Seriously? I've never gone THAT route before.

    Although the idea of nuking Monty 'til he glows does have an undeniable appeal...
     
  13. Eqqman

    Eqqman Walrus

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    I agree with that, too. While I can understand the arguments for not bothering with nukes in a 'serious' game, I think they are still far too under-utilized. If you're playing a game where you're not pressuring yourself to meet certain goals by a certain date I don't see why you can't have fun dropping a nuke or two. I miss the old days of being threatened by civs whose 'words were backed with NUCLEAR WEAPONS.'

    Go out with a bang. Literally.
     
  14. Lance of Llanwy

    Lance of Llanwy King

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    Oooh! Think of it has the ultimate vengeance! His skin will turn the same puke-green shade of the Aztec civ! Hehehehe...I'm sure, long ago, he beat the crap out of you when you were learning the ropes...
     
  15. VoiceOfUnreason

    VoiceOfUnreason Deity

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    It's coming right for us!
     
  16. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    Oy vey. You have no idea.

    No, on second thought, you probably do...

    All right then. Cyrus gets it with Infantry, Hatty get tanks, and Monty, ever-so-deservedly, will get nuked into the stone age (or the classical era, at least). By then, he'll be the only one left to be ticked off at me.
     
  17. Killroyan

    Killroyan Deity

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    We have an N, we have an U, we have a K, we have E!!!!
    What does Monty get???? NUKE NUKE NUKE Yeahaa!!! :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

    Fun fun fun. Make that one for me too since he beated me up several times too.

    BTW let London grow. The GP points are useless almost over there but with the extra food it can grow like mad. Put up a hydro plant when available and you are looking at a seize 30 city without problems soon. On to the Kremlin quest, tssss, bad for loosing that race. Are you getting cocky and sloppy? ;) Great game so far.
     
  18. Toshiro126

    Toshiro126 Warlord

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    As someone who has nuked Monty in a previous game, trust me when I say it is very very satisfying! :nuke: :goodjob:
     
  19. xen01

    xen01 Chieftain

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    Hello fellow rushers, I must say this thread is an enjoyable read. I am hoping someone can help me with my question. When invading enemy cities, how would you determine the buildings and wonders inside the cities? F9 is nice, but its not enough.

    Thanks.
     
  20. Dr Elmer Jiggle

    Dr Elmer Jiggle King

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    No, it isn't, but I think it's all you've got. That's something they did a much better job of in Civ3 ("Congratulations, Your Majesty, we have just captured Sun Tzu's Art of War!"). You can zoom in the graphics before you attack and look closely at the city to see what's there, but other than that and F9, I don't think there's any good way to know what's in the city until after you've decided to keep it.

    Even zooming in the graphics won't tell you which buildings survived your, since you need to do it before you attack. It will show you wonders, and it will show you what buildings might survive if you're lucky, but the only way to figure out what you actually got is to keep the city.

    I've strongly considered adding some kind of "abandon city" mod to my own games for exacly that reason. It's really idiotic that you have to decide whether to keep or raze before you've even had a quick look around.
     

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