ALC Game #8: Alexander/Greece

[Gnarfflinger]

Teal gives you stone, and a head start towards southern moves. I'd settle there and get your pyramids. It gives you options especially for Specialist/Hybrid economies...

 

[Sisiutil]

All right, all right, all right! I'll quit complaining about the map! I didn't see a "whine" resource, so I felt obliged to insert my own...

(Better than the Iceberg joke? Or worse? )

Sigmakan, thanks for the dotmap, and everyone else, thanks for the feedback on it. Teal and Red look like my next two cities; let me get my scouts over to those areas to finish exploring and we can then discuss and decide on their exact locations.

Carl Corey--thanks for the input, but please restrain yourself--your post started to read like it contained borderline spoilers; I had to stop reading it.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

All right, all right, all right! I'll quit complaining about the map! I didn't see a "whine" resource, so I felt obliged to insert my own...

(Better than the Iceberg joke? Or worse? )

Thirty points lost for outrageous puns
50 points awarded for courage in making outrageous puns
40 points deducted for explaining Iceberg
60 points awarded for not attempting to explain the second pun

Its just that we thought that start location would encourage you to clam up rather than whine.

 

[Gnarfflinger]

Should we research Animal Husbandry next or would that be horsing around too much?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well I don't know about researching Husbandry, I mean we're here with Mao, Saladin and Victoria. Doesn't look like it would open up any pleasant options. If Catherine was here then Husbandry might have far more going for it. Although there are potentially fruitful options, if moving to the south is on our calendar. As long as Sisitul doesn't completely lose his marbles, and if he has the stones to follow through, he should do wonderfully.

 

[gluboy2]

I played a shadow game and ended up settling my second city exactly on the magenta spot in the dotmap posted (before I saw the dotmap), for the gems and to deny the copper there to an AI civ... it seemed to work quite well for my strategy, despite being rather distant from the capital... of course I did not attempt the Pyramids and went for the usual cottage based economy (perhaps wasting part of the Philosophical trait???).
OK, just wanted to throw that out there for consideration. Cheers!

 

[sigmakan]

Well I don't know about researching Husbandry, I mean we're here with Mao, Saladin and Victoria. Doesn't look like it would open up any pleasant options. If Catherine was here then Husbandry might have far more going for it. Although there are potentially fruitful options, if moving to the south is on our calendar. As long as Sisitul doesn't completely lose his marbles, and if he has the stones to follow through, he should do wonderfully.

Wow. Most impressive.

 

[PeteJ]

I don't think it is worth hooking up the stone before building the pyramids. Your capital is capable of building the pyramids without help from the stone. It has 2 food resources, bronze, and 2 forest/plains/hills. It also has 7 trees available to chop. At size 5 it can pump out a decent 12 hammers per turn. Of course that will also delay the axe/phalanx rush. Since your aggresive and have bronze in the capital, it may be dumb not to axe-rush. It is a tough choice. But if you do go pyramids, I suggest you build/chop another worker after the settler while researching masonry, then chop the pyramids. It won't take more than 35 turns to build it. I also suggest working the silk right now instead of the bronze.... you will delay your scout by one turn, but you will also grow 1 turn sooner. That way you will be at size 3 when you start the settler.

Use your settler to settle red first and perhaps you can use one of your workers to chop a third worker in the new city before helping with the pyramids. That way you could start improving your new city sooner... but that will also delay the pyramids a little, and will also delay the axerush afterwards. I'm not sure when the AI builds the pyramids on prince.

 

[carl corey]

Carl Corey--thanks for the input, but please restrain yourself--your post started to read like it contained borderline spoilers; I had to stop reading it.

Hmm, I don't think there was anything spoilerish in there. I played up to BW (but started with Agri-Mining-BW), so no additional resources were revealed. I actually explored a little differently than you, but haven't talked at all about what I saw or not in those areas. My talk about Iron and Horses was just hypothetical.

Could someone else read my post and see if I inadvertently slipped it any spoiler? Thanks.

About the Pyramids: yeah, usually linking the stone takes more time instead of less. But if you settle at Teal first and delay improving the cows and wheat and get the Stone linked first, this might actually be better. I won't do the math, though.

 

[Killroyan]

All right, all right, all right! I'll quit complaining about the map! I didn't see a "whine" resource, so I felt obliged to insert my own...

(Better than the Iceberg joke? Or worse? )

Now you really have to get teal city and hook up the cows so you can have some cheese with that whine (yes I am helping you with making the puns, so I take some heat too. I really like your games, so if I can help I will do it ) Now play the next set of turns. I would still like to see AH as one of the next researches. 4 cows in the vicinity and horses will pop up close to you, I am almost certain of that (my best guess is green city) and maybe blue will even get iron (wouldn't that make it a great city). Copper is in the bag so you will have axes/phalanxes soon.

 

[patagonia]

...of course I did not attempt the Pyramids and went for the usual cottage based economy (perhaps wasting part of the Philosophical trait???)

It's early Representation for the extra 3 beakers/specialist which really makes a specialist economy. You can still leverage the philosophical trait quite nicely running a cottage/hybrid economy by more easily/quickly popping GS for academies, GP for shrines (if you've got any religions) and GE for "free" wonders.

Added to that, cheap universities (and hence a slightly faster Oxford) are nothing to sniff at.

 

[mice]

Could someone else read my post and see if I inadvertently slipped it any spoiler? Thanks.

I think Sisiutil is refering to the bit about 'advice on settling in the North'. He probably didnt realise you were speaking about settling in the North , as a general rule ( because he had to stop reading). It's good to know Sisiutil is playing as honestly as possible. I'm sure your post wasn't a spoiler but you can see how it might seem so at first glance.

 

[carl corey]

Ah, ok, I get it. Anyway, as Dr Elmer Jiggle pointed out, there's only one tile where to place Iceberg (hehe) that would get all the three visible resources anyway and so waiting for Iron wouldn't be that important. Thanks, mice. Oh, and you forgot to cut the smiley at the end!

 

[Hans Lemurson]

I am Hans Lemurson, and I approve Sigmakan's dotmap.

One of the best parts about slavery is that it will turn the Red city-location into a production powerhouse with minimal investment in infrastructure (floodplains&whips ftw!!!). Furthermore, the river makes resource connections a breeze, so you can make axes there to conquer China.

I'd actually advise building Petropolis (teal location) first and going for the Pyramids. It's not a bad location (at size 3 with all resources developed it will pull in +4,9), so you won't really be costing yourself much by building first there. It'll just require a few more worker-turns than otherwise to become fruitful (and get stone connected).

 

[aelf]

One trick I like to do when playing Alex is to get Writing asap and chop/whip a library in the capital. Then I'll stop whipping and dedicate one citizen as a scientist while the rest focus on production to pump out troops. I usually remove the scientist after building the Great Library.

This can be quite a gamble, as tying up one citizen so early in the game may harm the important production of troops. But since it works on Emperor, I believe it will work on Prince. A GS for an academy that early can be a real boost. Sorry if this sounds a bit off-topic at the moment, but if you want to do this it's about time to start planning for it.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I don't think it is worth hooking up the stone before building the pyramids. Your capital is capable of building the pyramids without help from the stone. It has 2 food resources, bronze, and 2 forest/plains/hills. It also has 7 trees available to chop. At size 5 it can pump out a decent 12 hammers per turn. Of course that will also delay the axe/phalanx rush. Since your aggresive and have bronze in the capital, it may be dumb not to axe-rush. It is a tough choice. But if you do go pyramids, I suggest you build/chop another worker after the settler while researching masonry, then chop the pyramids. It won't take more than 35 turns to build it. I also suggest working the silk right now instead of the bronze.... you will delay your scout by one turn, but you will also grow 1 turn sooner. That way you will be at size 3 when you start the settler.

Use your settler to settle red first and perhaps you can use one of your workers to chop a third worker in the new city before helping with the pyramids. That way you could start improving your new city sooner... but that will also delay the pyramids a little, and will also delay the axerush afterwards. I'm not sure when the AI builds the pyramids on prince.

But with those 35 turns he could easily have the stone Hooked up, a (a delay of maybe 10-12 turns, and that would cut down the remaining `20 turns to ~10, saving 10 turns, and saving some Trees...

Without Stone Pyramid=22.5 Trees (exchange each tree for about 2 turns)
With Stone Pyramid=11.25 Trees (so at Least don't chop any Pyramid trees until you have the Stone hooked up)

Having the Settler then Worker is good, It'll allow you to get the Stone quicker

 

[gdgrimm]

I realize that the last couple of games were SE driven, and it worked really well for #7. But I think we may be getting carried away here.

I don't think this map looks too good for a SE. Not a whole lot of food resources, and even the river to the south seems to have plains, not grasslands. Of the 6 city sites shown on the dot map, Athens and the red city could run some specialists. The teal city could run or two from the Wheat/Cow combo. But that's about it. Everything else would be very hard pressed to run specialists.

If you're chasing for a fast win, I'd be leaning toward leveraging the Philo trait with just 2 cities swapping GP creation (say Athens and the red city). Try to set the GP creations up to pop techs to military dominance (somebody had suggested Oracle to get MC, then Oracle's GP for Civil Service and Forge's GE for Machinery, giving fast Macement).

Leverage the Agg trait with the easy Copper access to do a scorched earth Axeman rush while waiting for the GP's.

Just drive the economy using a typical CE.

 

[Mind_worm]

I dont think i have ever popped a tech from a goody hut that i was researching. I was even under the impression it wasnt possible because of this.

How strange

 

[Eqqman]

It only looks at the techs you don't have, not how many beakers you might have into any of them. You might think they could add another check to exclude the tech currently being researched, but this will only lead to players switching to the tech they least want to get from a hut pop and then switching back. For instance, if I'm trying a plan that requires me to skip Masonry I would keep swapping to Masonry to guarantee I never pop it from a hut. Then just change out of it before I put any real beakers into it.

I also picked up Mining from that hut while I was researching it running a shadow game which I thought was an amazing coincidence, especially since I'd already popped the hut before Sisiutil made his post describing what happened to him. I've had this same thing happen at least once before in other games.

 

[dave866]

First time poster, long time troller and dang near fanatical about the ALC threads. They'd make a great book.

Mind Worm, just wanted to say that I have popped a goody tech that was mid-research many a time. More often than not, it seems. I think they go up the tree just like GP tech pops. I once popped metal casting from a late find!