ALC Game #9: Incas/Huayna Capac

[voek]

Funny to see how different games can get. In my shadow game Hatty was beating the crap out of Alex

Anyway, I don't think you realy need to decide for Domination or Space. Only dilpo needs a other approach monitoring the relations and predict population in time. The other two types just mean you want to become the most powerful (in production at least). Both concern taking over other AI's, so prepare to invade. The maces will be good to start the war. But who is going to be your target? Hatty is losing so shoud be a easy target.. But she likes you more compared to Alex and Alex isn't reliable. Therefore I should consider taking up against Alex. I would start pretty soon with building up a 'navy' against pillaging and invading forces and next to that dump some superior forces at Hatty's. They will mainly defend and kill off Alex his troops. When the army has grown to full strenght you can take over the assault and go for his city's.

Beeline for Liberalisme. I would have taken on Theology, but ok. If there are a few or no religions on the other continent, you can set up the party's using missionaries. Convert 1 hindu, other 1 Judisme for example.

You have room for at least two city's: 1 South between fishing village and the irontown and 1 city next to the gold in the South West of your capital.

 

[Cabledawg]

Now that you have CS, start the farm chaining on your wheats asap....get some workers on that.

In the very south, put a city 1N of that cow(the southern most cow)...chain irrigation for some farms. Theres a forest 2E of Ironville that can be chopped and put in the irrigation chain. It can be used for Ironville or the new city. Consider windmills for Ironville till biology, then mine the crap out of it. There are places for farms above Ironville which Im sure youve seen, that is definately your Ironworks unless coal shows up somewhere else.

Theres also a spot which grabs the fish and spices which is prolly why you moved the city that got wheat and fish further north.

My suggestion for techs
Paper
Education.....start schoolin
Calender
Philosophy
Lib

This route guarantees you Lib and take Astro. You can prolly trade for a calender somewhere. I might even go to philosophy now if noone has grabbed it...but its a risk....seems a bit late to get it. Im a big fan of the monastaries and pumping out missionaries for the other continent...it really pays off......and for that matter....get Islam too, that seems like an easy get since youre getting so many GP points.

 

[pigswill]

Another viewpoint: don't trade with Napoleon! At the moment other continent is fairly balanced, but Nap will finish off GW very soon (check out Nap's american cities) and by the time he's consolidated his american cities he'll be top dog on the continent; if you give him extra techs he's likely to take over Biz and Cyrus and then head for you. So trade with Cyrus and Biz to keep that continent fairly evenly balanced.
In the north continent Hatty is probably doomed unless you decide to ally with her against Alex. On the other hand Alex will attack you unless you have an overwhelming power advantage and the odd -1 for trading with enemies won't make any difference to that.
Tech wise liberalism beeline sounds good but don't take astronomy; you don't need galleons to war against Alex, astro obseletes colossus and limits your GS slingshots to SciMeth. You'll lose ocean trade routes but they're likely to benefit AIs more than you anyway. Might be an idea to wait for AIs to pick up guilds and banking before you go too crazy on tech trades.
(Edit: ok its Frederick not Bismark, at least I got the right civ)

 

[aelf]

I've survived side-by-side with Nappy on the same continent once and he voted me for diplomatic victory, so he can certainly be quite reasonable. If Frederick is friendly with Napoleon (same religion so they might be good buddies), consider trading with the latter and asking him to wipe out Cyrus as well. On your part, conquer Alex and Hatty's lands. Then when you are one of the biggest in population, take a look at who's bigger on the other side at the end of it. Switch to Representation (Nappy) or US (Freddy) depending on who ranks as the third. Freddy likes to adopt Free Religion, so he probably would and thus nullify any shared religion bonus with Nappy. This sets you up for a diplomatic win.

Just a wild idea

 

[cabert]

yes, pigswill is right, you don't want to give anything to nappy!
balancing out is cool, but I really wouldn't give anything to Cyrus.
He has no monopoly tech you can see, so it's useless anyway.

 

[patagonia]

I've survived side-by-side with Nappy on the same continent once and he voted me for diplomatic victory, so he can certainly be quite reasonable. If Frederick is friendly with Napoleon (same religion so they might be good buddies), consider trading with the latter and asking him to wipe out Cyrus as well. On your part, conquer Alex and Hatty's lands. Then when you are one of the biggest in population, take a look at who's bigger on the other side at the end of it. Switch to Representation (Nappy) or US (Freddy) depending on who ranks as the third. Freddy likes to adopt Free Religion, so he probably would and thus nullify any shared religion bonus with Nappy. This sets you up for a diplomatic win.

Just a wild idea

Interesting idea. I'd like to see how that'd play out.
If you try to stir up war on the other continent to drag Cyrus down a peg or two, it'd be worth joining in with these two in a phoney sense to pick up the mutual military struggle bonus too (offsetting the bonus they probably already share in the process).

In my games, I tend to get too focused on shooting for the stars when in a situation like this one.

I'd be inclined to settle three more cities on the home continent whilst building up a bit of an army and pursuing Education and Liberalism. One 1S of the spices on the river to pick up the two unclaimed plantations and the gold, and the other on the tip of that peninsula to pick up the fish and a whole lot of sea squares. They'll be worthwhile in the long term, especially with Astronomy when intercontinental trade becomes viable.

What's the tech situation like between you and Alex? Is he beginning to fall behind or keeping pace with the rest of the world?

 

[voek]

What's the tech situation like between you and Alex? Is he beginning to fall behind or keeping pace with the rest of the world?

Didn't you see the tech screenie? He is doing ok and I think he will be for a while since he gained land on hatty and actualy has quit a nice empire. Next to that his GP will kick in and giving him some techs and Golden Ages.

He can become quit strong if Sisiutil let him take over Hatty and let him GP burn on his cosy continent.

 

[Eggolas]

Do keep in mind that if we don't go for a cultural win, it's good for the AI to have as many religions as possible, so as to encourage religious differences. This is why I'm hesitating to use Moses for Theology.

Alternatively, I could wait until Christianity is founded and then pop him for Theology. That seems kind of perverse, though.

At any rate, if and when I use a GP for a shrine, the Hindu one makes the most sense, as the capital will make a better commerce city (and home for Wall Street) than my other holy city, Tiwanaku.

I prefer shrines in this situation as it helps to keep research high for an eventual space race/diplomatic scenario. If you can manage a two religions in one city . . . well, that's simply awesome at Monarch level.

Aggressive and early missionary work will bring excellent long-term rewards in this game.

 

[johnny_rico]

I agree with voek that Alex is the verge on becoming a powerhouse. I think teaming up with hatty to take alex down a notch or two is key. I noticed that alex doesn't have copper, but does have an abundance of horses and ivory. Given that, it may be likely he beefed up on mounted units unless he beelined for iron working and from the map I can't tell which iron hotspots he would currently be working.

I was thinking for the war with alex, you could set up small ops groups to seek out iron and pillage it. He has no copper so mass macemen and pikes (engineering would make sense if you follow this route; possibly at the sacrifice of liberalism though, which is bad). Too bad this isn't warlords, the trebs are a nice boon with the engineering tech.

Otherwise, it is impressive you are holding up well. Ironic that not much has changed in your overall strategy, you're doing a lot of familiar things from the prince games and it is working ok thus far. Plus, it is kind of cool you're not already in first place by a nice chunk meaning the game will continue to be challenging.

If you do get liberalism, my vote is to take astronomy. The galleons are key, five movement once you circumnavigate plus an extra passenger. May not have as much impact for the war in the north but will be great when moving missionaires across the ocean.

 

[Sisiutil]

Didn't you see the tech screenie? He is doing ok and I think he will be for a while since he gained land on hatty and actualy has quit a nice empire. Next to that his GP will kick in and giving him some techs and Golden Ages.

He can become quit strong if Sisiutil let him take over Hatty and let him GP burn on his cosy continent.

Like I'm about to do THAT.

I like the idea of building a few Galleys and starting to shuffle units (I'm thinking Macemen and Catapults to start with) over to Hatty's territory in anticipation of striking out at Alex.

And thanks for all the advice regarding tech trading and the balance of power. I will indeed do my best to hang on to Civil Service.

By the way, Frederick has Philosophy and founded Taoism. I still think it should be my next tech as it's on the path the Liberalism. I can probably get some techs I'm bypassing, like Guilds and HBR, from the other continent later on. I will likely have to research Engineering on my own, as the AI prefers to hang on to it until the Hagia Sofia is complete. I'd love to go for the HS, but I think I have too much infrastructure to build instead. So I'll just build some more Workers and start teaming them.

 

[Tyrant Roger]

Good show on the last round. Don't trade with Napoleon - it will make him stronger. Trade with Washington - you want him stronger.

Bee-line to Liberalism and then begin war plans to visit Alex and wipe him out. It will likely take at least two round of combat to finish him off. Keep Hattie happy. Spam missionaries.

Finish the buildout on your own island.

Did you win the circumnavigation bonus?

 

[aelf]

Good show on the last round. Don't trade with Napoleon - it will make him stronger. Trade with Washington - you want him stronger.

Sometimes it pays to be in the good books of powers-that-be. Personally, I don't trade with a dying civ unless I'm desperate or have nobody else to trade with. Doesn't help that civ and makes the victor angry.

 

[Sisiutil]

Sometimes it pays to be in the good books of powers-that-be. Personally, I don't trade with a dying civ unless I'm desperate or have nobody else to trade with. Doesn't help that civ and makes the victor angry.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Washington's too far gone to get propped up, and Napoleon is on my short list of AI civs I've seen wipe out another AI civ. And America seems to be one of his favourite whipping-boys in my games for some reason. I may not trade much with Nappy, but I think trading with George--even OB--is out of the question unless I want to tick off Nappy, who is also not the forgiving type in my experience.

 

[Cabledawg]

First off, the whole idea behind the Lib-Astro beeline is not for the galleons, its also not because its the most expensive tech you can get from Lib, its for the Observatories. If you go to Education before Philosophy, you can get a University built in the capitol in probably 6 turns....which in turn makes all your future techs cheaper and faster. The difference between
Education to Philosophy to Lib vs
Philo to Education to Lib
is Probably 2 extra turns of reseach

Also, by taking Astro form Lib and putting an observatory in the capitol within 6 turns prolly adds another 40 beakers....thats huge. Thats like having 2 other new size 4cities with libraries. And that assuming you only put an observatory in the capitol.....if you put it in your other 2 top science cities, youre probably looking at another 50 - 60 beakers.

Youll also have Astro way way before any AI gets it and there will be a point when youll be able to trade with every AI for a bazillion techs for Astro as they value it highly.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

First off, the whole idea behind the Lib-Astro beeline is not for the galleons, its also not because its the most expensive tech you can get from Lib, its for the Observatories. If you go to Education before Philosophy, you can get a University built in the capitol in probably 6 turns....which in turn makes all your future techs cheaper and faster. The difference between
Education to Philosophy to Lib vs
Philo to Education to Lib
is Probably 2 extra turns of reseach

Also, by taking Astro form Lib and putting an observatory in the capitol within 6 turns prolly adds another 40 beakers....thats huge. Thats like having 2 other new size 4cities with libraries. And that assuming you only put an observatory in the capitol.....if you put it in your other 2 top science cities, youre probably looking at another 50 - 60 beakers.

Youll also have Astro way way before any AI gets it and there will be a point when youll be able to trade with every AI for a bazillion techs for Astro as they value it highly.

Ooh, observatories, good call. I forgot you can get to Astronomy so fast on Monarch that trade with the other continent will only help you and not them, at least until they catch up to that mark.

 

[WTBCzero]

Is it just me, or did Sisiutil not include screenshots in his last update?

 

[Sisiutil]

Is it just me, or did Sisiutil not include screenshots in his last update?

I see 'em, so maybe it's just you? I have a paid PhotoBucket account now, so they better not be cutting me off for bandwidth use! If anyone else has problems, please let me know.

Cabledawg, thank you for that very insightful post. This is the first time I've seen anyone suggest researching Education before Philosophy. It's a little counter-intuitive because of the way the tech tree is set up, but it's an intriguing idea.

I often use my first Great Scientist to pop Philosophy, but if getting Taoism is not important (or if someone beats you to it), this approach makes sense. You can then use the GS for an academy which further benefits your research all game long. And of course if other civs have Philosophy it just gets cheaper to discover, or you may even be able to trade for it.

 

[Elrohir]

Is it just me, or did Sisiutil not include screenshots in his last update?

Assuming you're talking about Roung 6 (And I didn't completely space out and miss 7 ) it's you, as I can see the pictures from that round.

 

[WTBCzero]

Ah, turns out it's adblock. No idea exactly how it's blocking it (it's only blocking individual images), so it looks like i'll have to turn adblock off when browsing this thread.

Oddly, i could see all the images before Round 5, so no idea what's going on there.


As for the game, i say wipe out Alex quickly, and maybe wipe out Napoleon if you can (since he'll probably start a war with you if you're not careful).

 

[Disco Bandit]

Seems like this one hasn't been updated in a while...