Alexander the Great Scenario: Civs and Leaders Thread

[Exsanguination]

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:
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--Ex (10/24/02)


This thread is for discussion on the civs and leaders in the upcoming Alexander the Great Scenario. This includes discussion on what civs should be included in the scenario, civ stats/specifications, who their leaders should be, and most importantly Piernik's leaderheads.

Final Civ List:

Macedonia - Alexander
League of Corinth (Athens) - Demosthenes
Lacedaemonia (Sparta) - Agis
Ionia (Greek colonies) - Spithridates
Persia - Darius
India - Porus
Scythia - Chorienes
Phoenicia - Azimilik
Egypt - Sabaces
Arabia - Gerrha

Previews:











The following topics are of pressing need:

*leaderhead gfx
*what those leaderheads look like

Note: Civ Attributes will not be included in this scenario.

--Ex (09/29/02)

 

[Exsanguination]

Piernik - please post your previews (again) here. We can continue discussing them here.

Everyone - The most pressing issue we have right now (besides the map) is what each civ should be characterized as. the first post outlines my proposed bonuses for each civ. The reason for many of '?'s is because I do not want to see any two stats repeated (like Japan and Azteca in civ3). However, again I must stress the importance of historical accuracy to this scenario, so if it is too obvious that a civ is such, then any repetitons will be accomodated.

Looks like I've come out of hiding . .

--Ex

 

[Exsanguination]

I just looked back at your Polish mod leaderheads and the middle-ages one is a lot like what I envisioned for King Agis III of Sparta:



Perhaps if you could put a different background into it? that should make it good. Of course, if you want to go ahead and make a new one, go right ahead!

--Ex

 

[Piernik]

OK That's my final propostion of Demosthenes. Changes are of course possible. (I think, much "but" will have smiled one)
As background I used a pict. from internet and there are ruins, but in times of Demosthenes (I think) it was not destroyed , but I havn't found different picture.

Exsanguination: King from polish mod could be used in this scenario, but I want to change him a bit... Tell me what?? Hair? Outfit?

 

[Piernik]

I forgot to attach

 

[Senoj]

Hey I love the leaderhead!! Looks great. I presume u used Poser?

 

[Piernik]

No - 3DSMax4

 

[Gorgoroth]

Polish mod? ROFL, seriously who the heck wanna play that?

Btw nice stuff again! Keep up the good work with this awesome scenario, Ex.

 

[Piernik]

Originally posted by Gorgoroth
Polish mod? ROFL, seriously who the heck wanna play that?

Poles
We have already 550 downloads, so people play with polish mod

 

[Piernik]

I need more pictures from that period... If you don't have leaders mentioned, at least some others just to have a general idea of how they could look.
I've looked for Agis and I havn't found anything - HELP ME!!

 

[Mortifer]

OMG...Personally I hate the inferior poles and the other inferior slavs too, but oh well....heh


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[Pangur Bán]

Egypt - Religious (the Egyptians were unusually devoted to their gods, even for an ancient people; this was especially the case in Alexander's time: hence Alexander pretending to be Amon-Zeus) and Industrious (Egypt was not scientific, but it had a wealth of mathematical knowledge used only practically for building, etc; the existence of the Pyramids and Egypt's place as the "breadbasket of the mediterranean" mean it has to be industrious)

Persia - religious (zarathustra) and expansionist (they created the largest empire that had existed)

Ionia - CERTAINLY scientific (science began in Ionia) and commercial (the economy relied on trade more than any other part of the Greek world)

Phoenicia - Commercial is a definite (I don't need to say why in this case) and Industrious or Religious BTU definitely NOT militaristic, expansionist or scientific

Macedonia - Industrious(the vast resources of Macedonia were only properly manipulated by Philip II reign onwards; this was the key factor in my opinion of Philip's success [plus army Philip's army reforms) and expansionist/militaristic (for obvious reasons)

League of Corinth - Scientific and commercial also, but in both cases less strongly than Ionia

Sparta - Militaristic (NOT expansionist) and Religious (the Spartans would only fight if they got the right omens; if not, they wouldn't, even if it meant passing up uniquely favorable opportunities)

India - Reiligious (Buddism originates in a period near to Alexander's time) and DK, nothing else seems to stand out. Perhaps industrious because of the farming needed to work the Indus river properly

Scythia - Religious( the kurgans reveal them to be highly religious) and Militaristic (they were mostly nomads who tend to be unusually good at warfare)

Arabia - Religious and Commercial (many luxuries were supposed to come from Arabia, like Cinnamon, and thus Arabia was associated with exotic commerce; there's also the Arabian caravan routes)

 

[Exsanguination]

Piernik - thats absolutely beautiful. I can't believe the amount of talent we have working on this scenario alone! Wow!

On Demosthenes:
-I'll see if I can find a background with a non-destroyed Acropolis (as you said, the Parthenon was still standing at this time)
-other than that Nice!

On Agis: if we wanna change Mr. Pole , here are my suggestions:
-take off the long, bushy beard and give him a short, stubbly/scruffy beard
-change the winged-lion insignias (near his chin)to the inverted "lambda" sign of Sparta (An upside down 'V')
-change the background to the palace I suggested
-maybe make his hair a little darker/blacker

Other leaders: I'll look for some inspirational shots if I can. Who do you plan on working on next?

Calgacus - First things first, no civ will be Expansionistic. It's an entirely wasted trait for this scenario (No goodie huts, scouts??? ). Before I make any comments, I have to get this settled: We need to make the religious trait actually useful. Many of the religious will have temples/religious buildings already set in their cities, so the reduced cost is redundant. The one-turn govt change wont help much (I'm working on a way to force to AI to stay in the same govt). So essentially that trait is a goner. But if we could thikn of something that only religious civs get/can build/do/etc, maybe it won't be so uselss. Any suggestions?

Also, Macedonia will remain [S,M] and Persia will stay [M,I]. The thing with the religious trait is that every ancient civilization was religious. The regligious trait should only go to those civs where religion was the biggest, ultimately most important thing to them (ie Egypt, India). Religion was big in Persia, but the monarchy was more important than it. Not religious. I'm still playing withmaking the Greek states religioous or not, thats a debatable issue.

--Ex

 

[Pangur Bán]

Exsanguination, you'll need to explain why you're making Macedon scientific. Of all the regions of the Greek world, Macedon was the least scientific. In case you think so, Aristotle wasn't Macedonian: he was a ordinary Greek from Stagira; and the science of the Hellenistic world was of ordinary Greek origin and not a product of the Macedonians.
For that period, the only thing I can think of is prophets and maybe travelling priests. For instance, after the Persian Empire came about (and Zarathustra at the same time), suddenly, by strange coincidence, new philosophies sprung all round the borders of Persia: the 1st scientific revolution in Ionia and then Athens, Buddha in India and Confucius in China as well as in Israel. Or, later, myths from Egypt spread throughout the Meditteranean, like Isis and Osiris (who brought the Christ and MAry relationship about). The only problem is that I can't see how this works to a civs advantage. Also, I don't know how easy it would be to integrate that into the game.
Maybe it could be something that could make it easier to rule a civ, like an event which makes the ruled believe their ruler to be God.
That's all I can think of really.

 

[Piernik]

Originally posted by Exsanguination
Other leaders: I'll look for some inspirational shots if I can. Who do you plan on working on next?

I wanna try Porus (India) or Mazacses (Egipt)...
I was wondering... can I make Phoenician style more like Assyrian
one?? cause I don't have pict. of Phoenicians at all...

And does anybody have a picture of greek crown??

 

[Exsanguination]

Originally posted by calgacus
Exsanguination, you'll need to explain why you're making Macedon scientific. Of all the regions of the Greek world, Macedon was the least scientific. In case you think so, Aristotle wasn't Macedonian: he was a ordinary Greek from Stagira; and the science of the Hellenistic world was of ordinary Greek origin and not a product of the Macedonians.

You insult me! Aristotle Macedonian? I should believe so! How dare you!

Seriously - the reason I choose to make Macedon Scientific is because Alexander brought many scientists on his conquests - while the Macedonians may not have contributed much to science, without those scientists Alexander's campaigns would have been much harder and many battles (ie Tyre) would have been fruitless. Lets go down the checklist:

M - Of course!
R - not really, Alexander is sometimes considered a megolomaniac/egotistical god-figure, but the Macedonians themselves as people weren't overly religious.
C - No evidence of that.
I - You could attribute the moles at Tyre and some of the other odd things he brought along/constructed (think: Sogdian Rock) to industriousness, but most of that was due to the scientists he brought along. Alexander never constructed anything too great or of architectural genius.
S - See above.

Maybe we can make Macedonia Industrious, but I personally think Scientific is better. Plus, in this scenario M+I are THE two most powerful traits - Macedonia is powerful enough as it is. We don't have to make it that easy for the player!

About Priests - I was trying to think of a way tro implement them so they'd actually be useful. Allow to think a bit.

Piernick - I guess you could use some Assyrians as models. The Phoenicians are fairly Arab-looking, think of a Arab/Greek combo . Dark tanned skin, dark hair, fair complexion. Egyptian/Indian shouldn't be too hard. Let me keep searching.

--Ex

 

[Exsanguination]

Moderator Action: If your going to spam, you're much better off not spamming with racist comments. Once more and you'll have 1 week off to think about it.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Thank you, gonzo_for_civ.

 

[Exsanguination]

Peirnick - here are some picturesI managed to scrounge up.

http://joseph_berrigan.tripod.com/ancientbabylon/id41.html <-- This is a site with many, many Mesopotamian avatars. You should be able to use these as guides for Spithridates (Ionia) or Azimilik (Phoenicia).

You were right when you said it was hard to find pictures/drawings of Phoenicians! However, I did manage to find these pictures of some random Ionian people. 'Ionia1' is a very good shot.

 

[Exsanguination]

Here are the culture groupings (silly me, you can't change/add the culture groups ):

Mediterranean: League of Corinth, Lacedaemonia, Ionia, Phoenicia*, Macedonia

Mid-East: Egypt, Persia, Arabia

Asian: India

*Should Phoenicia be a Mid-East civ?

Where should Scythia fit in? Maybe we can make them American (or European) since they were kind of stand-outs.

 

[Grey Fox]

Originally posted by Exsanguination
Here are the culture groupings (silly me, you can't change/add the culture groups ):

What do you mean? Of course you can... I had an Idea of making the Cultural groups to political groups. But I never tested that idea, although, I think they are changable...

EDIT: Oh.. it seems I might have been wrong... BUT, the names of the Culture Groups don't really show in the game, so... and you can assign the same graphics to every culture group aswell (City Graphics)