Alexander the Great vs. China

Status
Not open for further replies.
Did I say anything about Alexander myself? Strange, I kind of missed that bit.



Lo siento. No comprendo.
Dije hacen usted conduce el autobús corto? or in French if you prefer J'ai dit font vous conduisez le bus court? How about in Chinese I spent four years as a graduate archeologist in Beijing. 我说你的短期总线驱动器 Yes I see your point training does pay off. I would tell you in German and Italian, however, while learning both at the same time, its giving me a real headache, ti capisco?
But I can say this, Adolf Hitler verkauft Damenslips im Mainz. ja Kamerad
 
Related speculation: Napoleon toyed with entering the service of both the Ottoman Sultan and the Russian Empire. Either his rise to power in Russia (possibly capitalizing on the whole Pavel I thing) or perhaps his toppling of the Ottoman dynasty either as a Muslim sultan (he toyed with converting to Islam during his career) or as a Byzantine Emperor would be pretty cool.
If that's al true - I've never heard anything of the sort, and I've studied Napoleon for years - it would make one extremely interesting alternate history series.
 
Dije hacen usted conduce el autobús corto? or in French if you prefer J'ai dit font vous conduisez le bus court? How about in Chinese I spent four years as a graduate archeologist in Beijing. 我说你的短期总线驱动器 Yes I see your point training does pay off. I would tell you in German and Italian, however, while learning both at the same time, its giving me a real headache, ti capisco?
But I can say this, Adolf Hitler verkauft Damenslips im Mainz. ja Kamerad

Dude, lay off the crack :crazyeye: I had training in theatre and branched off on my own a little into film. If I can't say a thing or two about film and productions, I must have been asleep for a few long years.
 
Dude, lay off the crack :crazyeye: I had training in theatre and branched off on my own a little into film. If I can't say a thing or two about film and productions, I must have been asleep for a few long years.
Well, from what you say and the critique you give, I would say you have. And I live in the Mid-West and if I were on drugs it would be meth, of course, I would not need it to keep up with you. :deadhorse: In any case this foolish arguement between us is going nowhere. At least I know why you are critical, and to me it's understandable. Have a good night. :sleep:
 
Well, from what you say and the critique you give, I would say you have.

Oh, yeah, you want to reason out why 300 is a bad movie, for example? I can give you a few very good reasons why, including the fundamental and often unappreciated difference between print and film media. And the other part about having bad effects while being marketed as visually spectacular, I suppose the right way for you is to just accept whatever you get :crazyeye:
 
Sharwood said:
If that's al true - I've never heard anything of the sort, and I've studied Napoleon for years - it would make one extremely interesting alternate history series.

You will write it and get it published and will ultimately dethrone Turtledove from his dark throne and rise triumphant on the burning remnants of his god-awful books!
 
Oh, yeah, you want to reason out why 300 is a bad movie, for example? I can give you a few very good reasons why, including the fundamental and often unappreciated difference between print and film media. And the other part about having bad effects while being marketed as visually spectacular, I suppose the right way for you is to just accept whatever you get :crazyeye:

Ok fine maybe your right, you are looking at it from a different perspective, but let me tell you one thing, the physical prowess of those Spartans was real, they truly worked out like animals. Here is the routine they had to complete

The Director of the movie wanted to depict a Spartan army that was lean and cruel, rippled with muscle built from the hardships of living in Sparta. He wanted his actors to train like those warriors would have trained, with the trust in each other that would show onscreen and captivate (and forcibly salivate) the naughty dreams of women around the world.

So he called up Gym Jones, notable insane training facility - it's basically Fight Club for fitness - and these guys ripped the actors apart and sewed them back together with ironwood bark!


For a little taste, here's the circuit that they do to measure performance:
"25x Pull-up
50x Deadlift @ 135#
50x Push-up
50x Box Jump @ 24” box
50x Floor Wiper @ 135# (one-count)
50x KB Clean and Press @ 36# (KB must touch floor between reps)
25x Pull-up
300 reps total"

....in less than 20 minutes.

So you say the movie had bad effects that may be, but from the physical standpoint these actors, truly were ripped up and sewn back together. Not only did they look like what a Spartan soldier would look like, they trained everyday with sword, spear, and shield.

The best thing I find, well done, about this movie was the way in which Snyder brought to screen the look and feel of a graphic novel. Additional credit goes to cinematographer Larry Fong for devising a unique lighting scheme - with a mixture of saturated and desaturated colors - that reinforces the movie's aura of unreality.

Warner brothers from an economical standpoint, lost a bunch of money, from big budget pictures like Troy and Alexander. So of course, they are going to want to make a picture, about 300 Spartans facing off against a quarter of a million Persians, for less money. The movie was done in front of a blue screen in a converted locomotive factory in Montreal. Ancient Greece was filled in digitially, really in many ways ground breaking, and it was done at a third of the cost.

To me the film is unique, when I first watched it, I never saw anything like it. 300 was meant to bring Frank Miller's graphic novel to life on screen, everything including 90% of the dialogue and scenes. The studio did what they set out to do, and I believe did it well, and saved money in the process, from a business standpoint, I see no harm. However this is a rendition of a graphic novel and that is fine, but if they think they can reproduce everything about History in this manner, they are sadly mistaken. For instance, say they wanted to create a real(not comic) life picture of the battle of Waterloo, you are going to use CGI technology for sure but you are going to have to use a larger budget, another words there will be a risk of loss. My point is not every picture can be made from in front of a blue screen, people live in a world of reality, and when its comes to History will always want realism, something they can relate to.

Basically its the difference between say Gods and Generals, and the film Beowulf. I would not want to watch a rendition of the Civil War filmed liked Beowulf. The way the movie is filmed has to match the style and reality of the story, and to me money has no consequence to that. If you film in reality you are going to have to spend, thats all there is too it.

I wanted to say one more thing about 300, it seems that many people say the dialogue was unintelligent and so on. First off its from a comic, and whoever accused Spartans of being brilliant, it really just shows me how ignorant some people really are.

I am also going to tell you this aelf, I am ready to accept whatever I get, as long as it fits the purpose of what the film-maker is trying to bring to the screen. ( I have one example, you may not agree, but to me, Schindlers List should have been filmed in color, it was not a documentary, it was based on something that happened in real life, this is my opinion.) I will judge the movie when I view it, I may or may not like it. However, when it comes to 300, of all my friends and even my own brother, everyone loves the movie. One person may not and that might be my Dad, he is not into the unrealistic, fantasical genre. He loved say Gladiator and the Patriot, but would not watch Lord of the Rings.

Sorry for any misspelling
 
So you say the movie had bad effects that may be, but from the physical standpoint these actors, truly were ripped up and sewn back together. Not only did they look like what a Spartan soldier would look like, they trained everyday with sword, spear, and shield.

And that is exactly why the movie was very bad as anything other than fantasy. We don't know how spartan soldiers looked like. We have description of the agoge, but apparently even the spartans themselves didn't really had clear records of it (it the 3rd century BC they even tasked a foreign philosopher with "reviving" it). What we do know however shows that it was more aimed at the mind than the body: the purpose was to create uniformity, "military" training was a means to quash individualism and its political implications, dangerous to the stability so valued in Sparta - not that Sparta was in any way unique in that aim, it was just more effective at achieving it...

Sure, they had to train soldiers, but the romans managed to create much more effective armies in far less time. Not to mention that the spartans were crushed later on by a join army of greeks and macedonians at Sellasia, 5 years after the reinstatement of a supposedly traditional agoge. So much for it producing superior soldiers. The edge which it gave to Sparta was probably always organizational.
 
In its hayday, Sparta had the best soldiers of anyone, but before long it simply had too few. We can guess how they were armed - hoplite style, with lambda displayed on the shield.
 
And that is exactly why the movie was very bad as anything other than fantasy. We don't know how spartan soldiers looked like. We have description of the agoge, but apparently even the spartans themselves didn't really had clear records of it (it the 3rd century BC they even tasked a foreign philosopher with "reviving" it). What we do know however shows that it was more aimed at the mind than the body: the purpose was to create uniformity, "military" training was a means to quash individualism and its political implications, dangerous to the stability so valued in Sparta - not that Sparta was in any way unique in that aim, it was just more effective at achieving it...

Sure, they had to train soldiers, but the romans managed to create much more effective armies in far less time. Not to mention that the spartans were crushed later on by a join army of greeks and macedonians at Sellasia, 5 years after the reinstatement of a supposedly traditional agoge. So much for it producing superior soldiers. The edge which it gave to Sparta was probably always organizational.

Come on it was only portraying fantasy, a graphic novel. You must be like the one percentile that did not like it. It was not based on history it was a fantasy. The movie was not meant to depict true History. You'll have to wait for the movie "Gates of Fire", if they ever make it.
 
And that is exactly why the movie was very bad as anything other than fantasy. We don't know how spartan soldiers looked like. We have description of the agoge, but apparently even the spartans themselves didn't really had clear records of it (it the 3rd century BC they even tasked a foreign philosopher with "reviving" it). What we do know however shows that it was more aimed at the mind than the body: the purpose was to create uniformity, "military" training was a means to quash individualism and its political implications, dangerous to the stability so valued in Sparta - not that Sparta was in any way unique in that aim, it was just more effective at achieving it...

Sure, they had to train soldiers, but the romans managed to create much more effective armies in far less time. Not to mention that the spartans were crushed later on by a join army of greeks and macedonians at Sellasia, 5 years after the reinstatement of a supposedly traditional agoge. So much for it producing superior soldiers. The edge which it gave to Sparta was probably always organizational.

Nobody knows what a T-Rex looked like either, so what's your point. Sometimes you have to use some imagination. Ha, unless you sir, with your flair for exactnesss, have a time machine. My god dude, I am going back to the Blitzkrieg thread, it's time for a change, and start getting into World War 2 again. I wonder if you can imagine a sherman tank in your head.
 
So you say the movie had bad effects that may be, but from the physical standpoint these actors, truly were ripped up and sewn back together. Not only did they look like what a Spartan soldier would look like, they trained everyday with sword, spear, and shield.

No, the bad effects were for House. The effects of 300 were just fail.

nokmirt said:
The best thing I find, well done, about this movie was the way in which Snyder brought to screen the look and feel of a graphic novel. Additional credit goes to cinematographer Larry Fong for devising a unique lighting scheme - with a mixture of saturated and desaturated colors - that reinforces the movie's aura of unreality.

:lol: :lol: And this is where the movie fails for me. I don't know which director doesn't realise that graphic novels and film are completely different ball games, unless that director is only eager to make a quick buck. The usual objection that the movie is stylised because it remains faithful to the comic falls flat when the comic manages to convey a certain degree of ambiguity and the movie doesn't. Why is that? Because of the way film as a medium communicates to us, we are generally being fed the director's interpretation of a series of images, and there's always a certain amount of realism necessarily present in film compared to another medium. Ambiguity in film is much more difficult to achieve than in print, and if you're focused on showing the most exciting and Hollywood-style fights possible to earn big bucks, all is going the get lost and what results is the shallow, jingoistic and idiotic move we see.

Not to mention the movie carries the exaggeration even further than the comic, and totally unnecessarily.

nokmirt said:
To me the film is unique, when I first watched it, I never saw anything like it. 300 was meant to bring Frank Miller's graphic novel to life on screen, everything including 90% of the dialogue and scenes. The studio did what they set out to do, and I believe did it well, and saved money in the process, from a business standpoint, I see no harm. However this is a rendition of a graphic novel and that is fine, but if they think they can reproduce everything about History in this manner, they are sadly mistaken. For instance, say they wanted to create a real(not comic) life picture of the battle of Waterloo, you are going to use CGI technology for sure but you are going to have to use a larger budget, another words there will be a risk of loss. My point is not every picture can be made from in front of a blue screen, people live in a world of reality, and when its comes to History will always want realism, something they can relate to.

There's the graphic novel. Read it. It's also a visual medium. There's totally no need for a film seeking to recreate it exactly pixel-by-pixel except to make money for the studio.

nokmirt said:
Basically its the difference between say Gods and Generals, and the film Beowulf. I would not want to watch a rendition of the Civil War filmed liked Beowulf. The way the movie is filmed has to match the style and reality of the story, and to me money has no consequence to that. If you film in reality you are going to have to spend, thats all there is too it.

The latest Beowulf is horrible by all accounts of the people I know who have actually studied Beowulf. When one takes a text on screen and mutilates it, it generally turns out bad.

nokmirt said:
I wanted to say one more thing about 300, it seems that many people say the dialogue was unintelligent and so on. First off its from a comic, and whoever accused Spartans of being brilliant, it really just shows me how ignorant some people really are.

Spartans talked so much? I never knew :mischief:

nokmirt said:
I am also going to tell you this aelf, I am ready to accept whatever I get, as long as it fits the purpose of what the film-maker is trying to bring to the screen. ( I have one example, you may not agree, but to me, Schindlers List should have been filmed in color, it was not a documentary, it was based on something that happened in real life, this is my opinion.) I will judge the movie when I view it, I may or may not like it. However, when it comes to 300, of all my friends and even my own brother, everyone loves the movie. One person may not and that might be my Dad, he is not into the unrealistic, fantasical genre. He loved say Gladiator and the Patriot, but would not watch Lord of the Rings.

There's a difference between showing something in black-and-white versus in colour (look, for example, at film noir) and having foam as snow because you ran out of money and you hoped the audience wouldn't notice. I'm sympathetic towards the fact that it was, I heard, freak weather and therefore there was unexpectedly real snow on the set. But I have no idea why they decided to try to add to the effect with fake snow. Trying to milk something too much with too little resources results in bad things.

Just because a vast majority of people like a movie doesn't make it good. Look at *cough* Titanic *cough*.
 
It was an awesome film. It wasn't designed to educate the masses (especially those who already know about Sparta) but to entertain them.
 
It was an awesome film. It wasn't designed to educate the masses (especially those who already know about Sparta) but to entertain them.

Being entertaining does not a good film make. In the past, they used to put up lewd and vulgar street performances to entertain the masses. It has a purpose, but it's not high quality.

Honestly, with all the events going on in the world, the jingoistic tone of the movie is in quite bad taste.
 
I like jingoism. I enjoyed the film, so it was great art ;)

Total bollocks. And that's why we don't find you in art galleries except to feel all cultured.
 
Hey, I think we went over this film enough, FELLAS !

Taking an overly critical view of 300 as historical cinema is inappropriate. Did it succeed in being an intriguing rendition with some unique atmospheric effects, I thought so. As much as some of us hate being told we missed something good, when we chose to opt out after listening to a so-called expert critique; I personally dislike being told something I enjoyed, sucked for a thousand different reasons ! So, if we want to continue this move debate, and I think most of us don't, there are some totally appropriate threads elsewhere in the Collosseum.

How about we get back on track, because there are some loose ends still loose, and I'd like to talk about how we want to proceed.
 
No, the bad effects were for House. The effects of 300 were just fail.



:lol: :lol: And this is where the movie fails for me. I don't know which director doesn't realise that graphic novels and film are completely different ball games, unless that director is only eager to make a quick buck. The usual objection that the movie is stylised because it remains faithful to the comic falls flat when the comic manages to convey a certain degree of ambiguity and the movie doesn't. Why is that? Because of the way film as a medium communicates to us, we are generally being fed the director's interpretation of a series of images, and there's always a certain amount of realism necessarily present in film compared to another medium. Ambiguity in film is much more difficult to achieve than in print, and if you're focused on showing the most exciting and Hollywood-style fights possible to earn big bucks, all is going the get lost and what results is the shallow, jingoistic and idiotic move we see.

Not to mention the movie carries the exaggeration even further than the comic, and totally unnecessarily.



There's the graphic novel. Read it. It's also a visual medium. There's totally no need for a film seeking to recreate it exactly pixel-by-pixel except to make money for the studio.



The latest Beowulf is horrible by all accounts of the people I know who have actually studied Beowulf. When one takes a text on screen and mutilates it, it generally turns out bad.



Spartans talked so much? I never knew :mischief:



There's a difference between showing something in black-and-white versus in colour (look, for example, at film noir) and having foam as snow because you ran out of money and you hoped the audience wouldn't notice. I'm sympathetic towards the fact that it was, I heard, freak weather and therefore there was unexpectedly real snow on the set. But I have no idea why they decided to try to add to the effect with fake snow. Trying to milk something too much with too little resources results in bad things.

Just because a vast majority of people like a movie doesn't make it good. Look at *cough* Titanic *cough*.

Did you like Lord of the Rings? I do like Titanic too, I especially like the beginning, but I heard recently the ship split in three places, not sure if its true, but thats what I read or heard someplace.

The latest Beowulf is awesome I just watched it, come on dude. Wait a minute there is something wrong if you don't like that. Well its your opinion, aelf is ther any movie that you do like? Seriously there must be a movie that we both like.

Beowulf, yes they changed it from the original story, the original poem was written by monks, their tale was less than imaginative, if you get my meaning, and ha ha you know people that studied it, ha ha ha! HA HA HA HA! Wow thats kills me, its the most boring thing I ever read? I read it in junior high, and man I hated it. So the movie is one big giant step up. I feel bad for your poor friends that study it closely, HA HA HA HA HA HA! aelf you are funny, well its ok, but give it a view its really not bad for what it is, I am usually not used to cartoonish type animation, but it was a changed, and I liked the story.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom