All leader portraits

[Aukhenaten]

I'm European but that doesn't mean I can stand eurocentrism. When the majority of civilizations in the game are European it is a problem.

But it's not really a problem when the playerbase has always been keen on the civilizations present since the franchise's earliest days, which happen to include a lot of familiar European civilizations. This isn't a matter of discrimination or Eurocentrism or anything like that. It's just a popularity contest. India and the Aztecs are also very popular, yet not European.

This all makes even more sense if the hypothesis that they're doing regions in bulk due to artistic similarity is true. With the majority of European civs out of the way in the base game, we can expect expansions and DLC to have many non-European civs.

 

[Tsuchinoko]

I think that the main problem is that 18 Civs just aren't enough if you want to include all the civilizations people expect, and have decent representation for all continents. Also, deciding you want to include civilizations that have never been included in the series before makes it even more difficult (if not impossible).

There's also the issue that a vast majority of the civilizations that have a guaranteed spot every game are European, even though there are many deserving civs from the rest of the world that should perhaps come as standard. Mongolia, Korea, Ottomans, Persia, Khmer, Mali, Ethiopia, Inca and Maya to name just a few.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

It is pretty close but I think that strengthen the case it is Ghanda because the developers would likely give the Ghanada ruler similar clothing. It seems unlikely that they pick Granada although Granada would be a good pick if they wan't a science focused civ.

It is however possible that with Kongo in the game they may be looking past Ghana and Granada would then have rather good chance to be in the game especially as it is pretty famous for it science and tolerance in contrast to the spanish conquerors, basically it could be Civilizations VI Korea.

 

[Colmar]

+1 to the anti-Eurocentrism crowd


The developers seem to think Poland is providing some crucial regional or historical representation. I'm disappointed that Poland is taking a spot that could go to an indigenous civ (Inca, Maya, anything in N. America), a SE Asia civ, the Ottomans, Mongols, or Persia. That's not even getting into the fact that within Europe, they've chosen Poland over the Dutch, Portuguese, Scandinavians, and Austrians. Definitely can't wait to hear confirmation of DLC, and I hope it expands to more than the 4 extras here.

 

[DWilson]

I think I've figured out C5- it might be hair, not a helmet. With that, I found this:

Spoiler :

Jesus (basically) confirmed, God is a playable civilization. Just need to find a darker sash. (Well, I might be wrong, it could be Tamar of Georgia)

 

[dnoisette]

I don't think there's a lack of alternate portraits that might work for E1, but the problem is I don't know what could possibly work between Spain and Sumeria. Perhaps that image is just completely out of order for some reason.

I've been considering Sweden and Switzerland, assuming it's not Sumeria but Uruk (which I find hard to believe, but anyway). I have had no luck thus far finding a match for E1 from either of the two countries.

+1 to the anti-Eurocentrism crowd
The developers seem to think Poland is providing some crucial regional or historical representation. I'm disappointed that Poland is taking a spot that could go to an indigenous civ (Inca, Maya, anything in N. America), a SE Asia civ, the Ottomans, Mongols, or Persia. That's not even getting into the fact that within Europe, they've chosen Poland over the Dutch, Portuguese, Scandinavians, and Austrians. Definitely can't wait to hear confirmation of DLC, and I hope it expands to more than the 4 extras here.

For all we know, Poland is one of the DLCs and the Ottomans, the Mongols or Persia are in there (C5).

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Poland was a very important player in European politics for a while. It was famous for its religious tolerance and its elective monarchy was very important for the politics in europe.

India as a single civ is a pretty poor representation, here is for example a civ that they could add: The Mughal empire:

Sure it did not last that long but at its peek it was the most powerful nation in the world:
It controlled about 25% of world GDP.
Had an army that included over 200k cavalry, 8k artillery and was over one milion strong and I think it was more or less a proffesionell army. Compare this to Napoleons Grande Armee which was maybe 500k strong and made out in large parts of conscripts with far less artillery and cavalry.
While affording that army, the emperors lived in luxury far beyond that of european monarchs and ordered constructions of buildings such as Taj Mahal.
It had its own art style which was influenced by both persian and indian cultures, several emperors was patrones of the arts.

 

[durfal]

I found maybe a better mach for E1. I looked at a lot of old paintings of Kings, Princes, Dukes and whatever from all over Europe but hadn't found a better match for the glow on the Harness. Here the glow on the Harness matches the Vague picture better and the guy itself looks not that much different than the painting of Phillip II.
It's Louis of Nassau. Younger brother of William of Orange. Though he led armies for William during the 80 years war. He never actually led the Netherlands. But maybe he came up when they where looking for William. Though "The Netherlands" only fits in there if Gilgamesh leads Ur in stead of Sumeria, what I doubt though. Maybe the last 2 are there for later DLC and were added later as they are on a seperate page.

Spoiler :

 

[Cerilis]

It's very similar to the pic of Philip, I even though that was him in the first moment.

Good find though. Can someone compare it directly to the blur?

 

[dnoisette]

My only issue with your picture is the missing glow that seems to be on the arm as well as the breastplate.

The more I think about it, the more I find myself constantly coming back to Erik XIV of Sweden-Finland for E1:

Spoiler :

I know it doesn't fit alphabetically if Gilgamesh is Sumeria but then again, I haven't found any other portrait that looks so similar to E1.
Plus, the original picture clearly is the depiction of a European male ruler from the 16th century (judging by the armor and style).

Side by side comparison:

Spoiler :

 

[ferretbacon]

Maybe the last 2 are there for later DLC and were added later as they are on a seperate page.

I've been thinking along the same lines... perhaps the 4 DLCs that come out with the deluxe addition include 2 civs + 2 scenarios, and the first 20 portraits include those 2 civs. Then the last 2, on a separate page, are the DLC civs beyond that. So we have E1 that can be anyone up to "Sum".

 

[Cerilis]

My only issue with your picture is the missing glow that seems to be on the arm as well as the breastplate.

The more I think about it, the more I find myself constantly coming back to Erik XIV of Sweden-Finland for E1:

Spoiler :

I know it doesn't fit alphabetically if Gilgamesh is Sumeria but then again, I haven't found any other portrait that looks so similar to E1.
Plus, the original picture clearly is the depiction of a European male ruler from the 16th century (judging by the armor and style).

Side by side comparison:

Spoiler :

I think the other picture fits better (look at the red), and if they are going for some kind of explorer-theme, the Netherlands would also fit quite well (then again, why Poland?).
It pains me to go for another European civ, but in that context, did anyone consider Portugal for C5? Henry the Navigator maybe? I know it doesn't match exactly the alphabet, but maybe they are only sorted by the first letter (would give more leeway for B5 too, Tamar of Georgia confirmed).

 

[dnoisette]

I think the other picture fits better (look at the red), and if they are going for some kind of explorer-theme, the Netherlands would also fit quite well (then again, why Poland?).
It pains me to go for another European civ, but in that context, did anyone consider Portugal for C5? Henry the Navigator maybe? I know it doesn't match exactly the alphabet, but maybe they are only sorted by the first letter (would give more leeway for B5 too, Tamar of Georgia confirmed).

I agree that William of Orange for the Netherlands is another possible match for E1:

Spoiler :

I had not been considering Portugal for C5 though, I might wanna check that.

 

[blackcatatonic]

I found maybe a better mach for E1. I looked at a lot of old paintings of Kings, Princes, Dukes and whatever from all over Europe but hadn't found a better match for the glow on the Harness. Here the glow on the Harness matches the Vague picture better and the guy itself looks not that much different than the painting of Phillip II.
It's Louis of Nassau. Younger brother of William of Orange. Though he led armies for William during the 80 years war. He never actually led the Netherlands. But maybe he came up when they where looking for William. Though "The Netherlands" only fits in there if Gilgamesh leads Ur in stead of Sumeria, what I doubt though. Maybe the last 2 are there for later DLC and were added later as they are on a seperate page.

I'm pretty sold on this! Very close to the picture, and the differences are small enough that I can believe it's the result of distortion from the very low resolution.

 

[Cerilis]

Oh my, I was just checking some burmese leaders for C5 and... they really love their statues with crossed arms, do they?

 

[lorrydriverjr]

Louis of Nassau seems very unlikely to me. The diagonal white stripe and the collar aren't prominent enough in his portrait. Wouldn't make much sense as a leader either, as he always stood in the shadow of his brother and I doubt many Dutch people even know him, in contrast to William of Orange or Wilhelmina.

 

[kaspergm]

This is a really tough call. I *wanted* this to be a match, but I'm not convinced. First of, the shine on the breast plate definitely speaks for it a lot more than the Erik XIV image shown above. But, like also mentioned, the lack of shine on the arm is definitely an issue.

I tried to match them up, and a few things that speaks against this image:
1) The collar seems to be too short compared to the blurred image, making the distance between the collar and the sheen on the breast plate too big.
2) When I blur up the sharp image in an attempt to match it up, I don't get the shine on the arm, in contrary, the arm almost completely disappears. The collar region also seems to be too dark.
3) The lower end of the shine on the breast plate may or may not align, depending on where one puts the ending on the sharp image. I aligned to the lower part where it's faded in an attempt to match the shine on the hip to the shine seen in the bottom of E1, but I'm not convinced the shine on the hip is bright enough to match that. Part of it may be the dog head though, so again, it's inconclusive.

Spoiler :

I'm looking forward to see someone else try to match them up in detail!

 

[evanaurora]

Poland was a very important player in European politics for a while. It was famous for its religious tolerance and its elective monarchy was very important for the politics in europe.

India as a single civ is a pretty poor representation, here is for example a civ that they could add: The Mughal empire:

Sure it did not last that long but at its peek it was the most powerful nation in the world:
It controlled about 25% of world GDP.
Had an army that included over 200k cavalry, 8k artillery and was over one milion strong and I think it was more or less a proffesionell army. Compare this to Napoleons Grande Armee which was maybe 500k strong and made out in large parts of conscripts with far less artillery and cavalry.
While affording that army, the emperors lived in luxury far beyond that of european monarchs and ordered constructions of buildings such as Taj Mahal.
It had its own art style which was influenced by both persian and indian cultures, several emperors was patrones of the arts.

The question isn't "did Poland ever do anything important?" but rather "once we have the most obviously important civs taken care of, why do we only turn towards European civs to fill in the gaps?" There are any number of SE Asian, African, N American, S American, etc groups with just as much importance as Poland.

the Mughals would be amazing and there were DEFINITELy personalities driving them- wasted opportunity if they aren't included at some point!

 

[evanaurora]

This is a really tough call. I *wanted* this to be a match, but I'm not convinced. First of, the shine on the breast plate definitely speaks for it a lot more than the Erik XIV image shown above. But, like also mentioned, the lack of shine on the arm is definitely an issue.

I tried to match them up, and a few things that speaks against this image:
1) The collar seems to be too short compared to the blurred image, making the distance between the collar and the sheen on the breast plate too big.
2) When I blur up the sharp image in an attempt to match it up, I don't get the shine on the arm, in contrary, the arm almost completely disappears. The collar region also seems to be too dark.
3) The lower end of the shine on the breast plate may or may not align, depending on where one puts the ending on the sharp image. I aligned to the lower part where it's faded in an attempt to match the shine on the hip to the shine seen in the bottom of E1, but I'm not convinced the shine on the hip is bright enough to match that. Part of it may be the dog head though, so again, it's inconclusive.

Spoiler :

I'm looking forward to see someone else try to match them up in detail!

I think images have been settled on with similar discrepancies, and it would make more sense than having 2 Spanish (sort of) leaders on the sheet, when we have no other doubles.

 

[kaspergm]

Actually, just for the fun of it, I tried to take the image of Phillip 2 and blur up to compare the fit, and I have to admit, the fit on Phillip 2 is almost uncanny. Added on the left side in this new version:

Spoiler :