All Things Battlestar Galactica

[warpus]

So a couple weeks ago me and my roommate watched the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica miniseries (the 'prequel' to the 2004 series). We liked it and ended up watching all 4 seasons of the series, all in a couple weeks. We just finished watching the series finale last night, and I have a couple questions, to those who have seen this thing before (I am guessing that there will be a lot of people who have seen it on here). We really sped through the series, watching a couple episodes a day, so I'm wondering what exactly I missed, cause some things just don't add up. There are 4 main points I need clarification on:

(Spoilers ahead, if you haven't seen it all)

1.) They found an "Earth" in season 3. It is nuked and destroyed.. We saw it from orbit - you could clearly see North America. (I remember because me and my roommate started talking about Florida - he has relatives there, etc.) Now, in season 4, they find another planet, and call it Earth.. You can see see Africa from orbit, it turns out that this really is our Earth, 150,000 years in the past, so.. what the hell? What *was* that planet they ran into in season 3? It was clearly our Earth also - there is no way two planets would have to continents that look exactly alike (North America). Was there time travel involved? Why didn't any character say: "Hey! Look! That planet has exactly the same continents as the other Earth!". Did "God" (the guy who sent the 'angels') clean the planet up and put primitive humans on it? Did the producers simply change their minds in season 4 and decided to make the planet they found in season 3 not our Earth, even though you could clearly see north america? What's the answer to this question? It's the main thing that bugged me after the credits rolled.

2.) Why would the fleet settle on a planet and destroy all their ships, with all those cylon baseships still flying around there somewhere? I'm not talking about that one "friendly" cylon baseship that we saw leave in the series finale, with the cylons who "deserved" to be set free.. I'm talking about all those baseships belonging to the "bad" cylons - the ones who had the colony that was destroyed, etc. As far as I saw, only their colony was destroyed - they still had a bunch of baseships somewhere.. right? Did I miss something?

3.) Did humans evolve independently on "our" Earth, and Kobol? Is that what happened, or did I miss something here too?

4.) Does anyone know of what exactly the backstory for everything is? Here's my somewhat limited take on it:

- Humans evolve on Kobol
- Humans evolve independently on "our" earth
- Humans from Kobol settle 13 colonies, including the season3 Earth
- Humans on "s3 earth" invent reincarnation, build cylons
- Cylons on "s3 earth" revolt, planet gets nuked, 12 humans get reincarnated as cylons
- 2,000 years pass, humans on caprica build cylons, cylons revolt, there is a war
- Cylons come back, nuke 12 colonies, 2004 tv show, etc.

What misconceptions do I have? I would have checked the BSG forums, but that place is probably a mess.. not to mention I'd have to do a ton of digging and read tons of pages of posts, since this happened so long ago. Plus I hate interacting with fanboys.

And another question: What miniseries/movies are worth watching? There are a couple.. one about the Pegasus, a couple more? Is the new show, Caprica, any good?

THANKS

 

[Earthling]

The series ending, or in part the 4th season if you listen to some, was supposed to be one of the most controversial/rage-inducing mindfreaks of a series finale for a while on television. Most fans agree many things were not thought out, a lot of the ending was just symbolic or centered on ideas rather than real consistency with the universe of the actual show.

So no, I can't really answer anything much here. And Roslin needed to die so, so much.

 

[warpus]

So I suppose I shouldn't try to make sense of the revelation in season 1 (or was it 2?) that the flags of the 12 colonies are the constellations, as seen from earth proper?

ugh.. it was such a good show! seasons 1 & 2 were amazing.. 3 was meh (too much relationship drama).. 4 was good again, but then that horrid ending.. whyy.. WHY

 

[Mise]

1) You couldn't see North America - it was all clouds, no land could be seen. In the DVD's menu screen, it briefly shows what could be North America, then the nuke animation happens, but I remember in the show itself, there's no continent visible from space.

2) They explained why they destroyed their ships - because technology had ruined everything. They blended in with the locals on the new Earth, by getting rid of everything technological (and presumably screwing them lots).

3) Yes.

4) That's mostly right, except that the 13th colony was entirely Cylons. The humans on Kobol invented cylons, who settled old Earth while the other 12 (human) colonists settled the 12 colonies. The Cylons on old Earth had re-incarnation technology, and also the ability to reproduce sexually. The Cylons on old Earth invented their own "toaster"-style mechanical Cylons to do their menial stuff, but they rebelled due to their mistreatment, and nuked the old Earth human cylons. The "final five" fled at sub-light speed (for some reason) to warn the 12 human colonists that the toasters were gonna rape them if they built them, so don't build them. But they were too late, and for some reason decided to give the toasters human form and replication technology (to help end the 1st war or something?).

The reason the 2nd war started, it is revealed in the series, was that Bill Adama was sent on a secret mission to investigate the "neutral zone" between the 12 colonies and the cylon territory. Unfortunately it went wrong, when a raider shot down the scout raider that Adama sent into the neutral zone (there was an episode or two on this, remember that angry black dude they randomly found?).

 

[warpus]

1) You couldn't see North America - it was all clouds, no land could be seen. In the DVD's menu screen, it briefly shows what could be North America, then the nuke animation happens, but I remember in the show itself, there's no continent visible from space.

I am 100% certain that you could see North America. Me and my roommate paused to discuss Florida when the scene came up, that's why I remember it.

Maybe it didn't happen when the fleet arrived - maybe it was during one of the 'Starbuck is approaching Earth' scenes. But it was def. in there.

2) They explained why they destroyed their ships - because technology had ruined everything. They blended in with the locals on the new Earth, by getting rid of everything technological (and presumably screwing them lots).

See, that makes sense to me when I think about it like that.. but.. Didn't they remember what happened on New Caprica?

"Uhhh guys, what if the Cylons come back and enslave us again? You know.. like a year ago or so??"

No worries about that at all? I get that they wanted to just start from scratch or whatever, and from that point of view it makes sense, but nobody objects, especially when there are still dozens (or however many) baseships flying around?.. probably looking for them? Just weird..

3) Yes.

Bleh.. that's just dumb.

4) That's mostly right, except that the 13th colony was entirely Cylons. The humans on Kobol invented cylons, who settled old Earth while the other 12 (human) colonists settled the 12 colonies. The Cylons on old Earth had re-incarnation technology, and also the ability to reproduce sexually. The Cylons on old Earth invented their own "toaster"-style mechanical Cylons to do their menial stuff, but they rebelled due to their mistreatment, and nuked the old Earth human cylons. The "final five" fled at sub-light speed (for some reason) to warn the 12 human colonists that the toasters were gonna rape them if they built them, so don't build them. But they were too late, and for some reason decided to give the toasters human form and replication technology (to help end the 1st war or something?).

Yeah, okay, that all makes sense. So what's with the temple in season 1 (or 2) then?

The reason the 2nd war started, it is revealed in the series, was that Bill Adama was sent on a secret mission to investigate the "neutral zone" between the 12 colonies and the cylon territory. Unfortunately it went wrong, when a raider shot down the scout raider that Adama sent into the neutral zone (there was an episode or two on this, remember that angry black dude they randomly found?).

Yeah, I remember that.

 

[Glassfan]

I saw season one on the tube, enjoying it very much, but later rented season four from our local video store. It was awful. Suddenly virtually everyone was a closet Cylon and having mutant babies - it had turned into some kind of soap opera.

 

[Mise]

Oooh I see what you're talking about now - the Earth that Kara Thrace visits is the old Earth, the one that's destroyed by the nukes, but the one you see at the end of season 3 is our Earth -- it's implied that Kara visits that one (it all zooms out to the galaxy then back in to our solar system), but we find out when they arrive at the old scorched Earth and find her dead body that she actually went to that one and got reincarnated.

 

[warpus]

Oooh I see what you're talking about now - the Earth that Kara Thrace visits is the old Earth, the one that's destroyed by the nukes, but the one you see at the end of season 3 is our Earth -- it's implied that Kara visits that one (it all zooms out to the galaxy then back in to our solar system), but we find out when they arrive at the old scorched Earth and find her dead body that she actually went to that one and got reincarnated.

Wait, you're confusing me here. She goes to the "nuke Earth", and we see North America when she approaches it. She then later finds her dead body on "nuke Earth", so we know she was approaching "nuke Earth" in that shot (when we see North America). Having read a bunch of forums/posts/articles on the show since I saw the finale, this is something people seem to agree with.

So my problem is that.. well... how can you have two Earths? Based on what I've read they made the season 3 episode with "nuke Earth" when they weren't sure how long the writers strike was going to go on for.. so they were maybe going to use that for the series finale.. but then turns out that the strike was over soon, so they were able to make a 4th season. My problem is, why make *another* Earth? How can you have two? Surely they could have thought of a better way to end it than introduce such a glaring inconsistency.

And the significance of that giant revelation in season 2 (the temple) still eludes me.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

I just assumed that the coordinates Kara had jumped them through the black hole and into the past, and brought them to old earth eons before it was nuked... which was later abandoned by humans who went to Kobol... and then was rediscovered and settled by the first generation Human Form Cylons.
I also like to think that the "Angels" and "God" are the evolution of the Mecahnical Cylons (who were let free at the end of season 4) who orchestrated everything to ensure that they would be created.

 

[Duo]

The ending was pretty horrible in most respects, I thought. Really disappointing in that I don't ever even want to watch the show again, despite really enjoying the first 3.5 seasons. Even until close to the end I enjoyed episodes, like Gaeta's final appearance, but it did seem like they had absolutely no idea what they were doing at that point.

One of the worst things, I thought, was that the opera house stuff had no meaning whatsoever. It just literally happened, and wasn't symbolic or even a portent of anything awfully meaningful. And of course nothing interesting was explained or even got a cursory nod, we just got "God did it". Hmph.

 

[Mise]

I gotta see this Kara Earth approach again, cos I don't remember seeing anything when she approached that Earth, only when they zoomed out to the galaxy and back in to Earth. Which episode do you see Kara approaching Earth in?

 

[Ajidica]

The first two seasons were good, the third season was different, and the fourth season got too far into the mystical magical mumbo-jumbo than a sci-fi show should. I mean, the who thing about Gaius being an angel or other stuff, ick.
I agree, by the middle of season three and all of season four, the writers had no clue what they were doing and were trying too hard to emulate a Lost-style plot.

I'm a tad annoyed they sort of dropped the 'temple of the Gods' plot line with the constellations and such.

 

[Loki130]

At the end of season three, we have the fleet jumping into the nebula, then they black out and restart, but the cylons come in and they have to wait 20 minutes to jump. So all the pilots go out, including lee adama, who then goes to chase a phantom signal. The signal then turns out to be Starbuck, who pulls up next to adama's viper and says she's been to earth. The camera then sooms out, showing all the ships and then the galaxy, then zooms back in to an area of the galaxy near where we came out to show our earth, specifically North America. After that, we don't see any more planets recognizable as our earth until the finale

 

[Mise]

Yeah! That's what I'm talking about! That's all you see - the camera zooming out to see the galaxy, then zooming in on our Earth. There's nothing that says that Kara actually went to that Earth -- in fact, we later find out she went to scorched Earth, cos her dead body's there. It's just implied that she went to our Earth.

@Ajidica: The constellations in that temple were a huuuuuuuuge plothole -- they were clearly constellations as seen from our Earth, not the scorched Earth that the 13th tribe settled. And Gaeda said the constellations in the temple matched those on our Earth too -- but how could they? They were supposed to be from the 13th tribe's Earth ffs!!!! I mean, I can forgive the lack of scientific accuracy, that in fact over 150,000 years the stars would have drifted and so you wouldn't actually see the same constellations as we see now, but I cannot forgive that huuuuuuge freaking plothole. It seriously ruined the whole series for me... I had to physically forget that the temple and the constellations even existed -- which is one reason why I HATED the ending so much, because it reminded me of that god damn stupid plot hole.

 

[Ajidica]

The stars were from the 13th tribes earth? I forgot about that when they introduced that very strange plot shift when they made 'Earth' the 'Cylon Earth' and created 'New Earth'.
I sort of liked the Temple of the Gods plot line. Sort of like following the backwards breadcrums of Earth.
They got too involved in the mystical magical forces. Sort of like the later Dune books.

 

[warpus]

I just assumed that the coordinates Kara had jumped them through the black hole and into the past, and brought them to old earth eons before it was nuked... which was later abandoned by humans who went to Kobol... and then was rediscovered and settled by the first generation Human Form Cylons.

That theory makes a lot of sense to me, but I read that Ron Moore specifically said that no time travel was involved..

I also like to think that the "Angels" and "God" are the evolution of the Mecahnical Cylons (who were let free at the end of season 4) who orchestrated everything to ensure that they would be created.

I like that idea too, but if that's what happened, why were we left with: "It was God" and no hints at anything else? I was left with the impression that it was really a supernatural agent orchestrating everything.

I gotta see this Kara Earth approach again, cos I don't remember seeing anything when she approached that Earth, only when they zoomed out to the galaxy and back in to Earth. Which episode do you see Kara approaching Earth in?

I'm not really sure, but there is def. a scene with her flying over some planet, with north america clearly being visible below. Can anyone help me out when exactly this happened?

Found a site that references this scene:

Starbuck's been to Earth, she placidly tells Lee; she knows how to get back. And she's going to take the fleet there. Cue the dramatic zoom-out of the Galactica-Cylon dust-up...through planets and galaxies...and re-orient on Earth from space, a very clear image of North America.

Yeah! That's what I'm talking about! That's all you see - the camera zooming out to see the galaxy, then zooming in on our Earth. There's nothing that says that Kara actually went to that Earth -- in fact, we later find out she went to scorched Earth, cos her dead body's there. It's just implied that she went to our Earth.

Ahh, really? Well, I have far less problems with the finale then. My main two beefs are: "what about the temple stuff from the first/second season" and "God did it"? really?

The stars were from the 13th tribes earth? I forgot about that when they introduced that very strange plot shift when they made 'Earth' the 'Cylon Earth' and created 'New Earth'.

The constellations are the 12 constellations we see in the sky, implying that the 12 tribes either originated from our Earth (not the nuked one), or the ancestors of Kobol originated on our Earth. ALSO implying that the show takes place in the future.

This whole thing was a giant part of the story in the first 2 seasons - it was a giant revelation! And what do they do with it? They totally mess it up..

 

[Mise]

My biggest beef with the ending was that it was so predictable. After they found out that Earth was a wasteland, I thought, "oh god they're going to do what Stargate did, and have them settle on our Earth and become one with the human population there". I didn't know the details but for a long time that's what I suspected; it was a disappointment to be proven correct, especially since it required me to completely forget and ignore the whole temple thing.

My second biggest beef was the whole "Kara is an angel" thing. That was just stupid, lazy storytelling. They didn't need to kill Kara and reincarnate her as an angel to do the story, they could have made more of her encounters with the basestar hybrids, or she could've been hit on the head, or had a religious experience or whatever. They really didn't need to kill her and turn the whole thing all supernatural like that. I mean, I liked that the story was very much about destiny and predestination, I get that, but they didn't need to make it explicitly supernatural by making the angel physical, flesh and blood. The two angels of baltar and #6 were cool, I liked that they could only be seen by their real-life counterparts, but Kara? An actual, flesh and blood angel? That was stupid.

On the whole it was an amazing series, but it could have been even amazinger, if they'd written the ending in advance.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

That theory makes a lot of sense to me, but I read that Ron Moore specifically said that no time travel was involved..

ah, effing word of god, eh?

 

[Bill3000]

I gotta see this Kara Earth approach again, cos I don't remember seeing anything when she approached that Earth, only when they zoomed out to the galaxy and back in to Earth. Which episode do you see Kara approaching Earth in?

Last episode of season 3, very end, after she is reincarnated.

 

[Mise]

Yeah, I watched that episode again, and all they show is zooming out to see the whole galaxy, then zooming back in on Earth -- it never says she actually goes there, never shows her flying to that planet at all. It just implies that she does, but we later find out that she actually went to the scorched Earth, not our Earth.