All Things Harry Potter

[W|M]

First book, in the feast after the Sorting:
‘No wonder [Quirrell] is looking so nervous, that's Professor Snape. He teaches Potions, bu he doesn't wanto to – everyone knows he's after Quirrell's job. Knows an awful lot about the Dark Arts, Snape.’

 

[Sommerswerd]

Oooh a Harry Potter thread! Thanks @Valka D'Ur

 

[tjs282]

Answering here, because, well, on-topic for this thread...?

They lack social graces, but as pureblood wizards, they definitely aren't working-class. Their families have wealth

I never got the impression that the second necessarily follows from the first.

Admittedly it's been a while since I read them, but I don't remember anything in the books to suggest that Crabbe and Goyle seniors were wealthy, nor any hint that there was a minimum required income to become a Death Eater (I do remember that one of them — MacNair? — comments enviously about the Malfoys' estate at the beginning of Deathly Hallows).

Although it might be fair to say that the level of responsibility Voldemort assigned to any individual Death Eater (and specifically Lucius and Bellatrix) was at least partly related to their wealth, this is possibly an autocorrelation in the sense that any individual's ability to acquire wealth may be a proxy measure of their charisma/ cunning/ ruthlessness (and hence leadership abilities).

Definite counter-examples:

The Weasleys are pureblood, and while Arthur, Bill and Percy all arguably have (upper) middle-class careers (civil servants, banking), we are told repeatedly that Arthur's job in the Misuse of Muggle Artefacts office was not well-paid (though I think he got a raise along with his promotion at the beginning of HBP?). As a junior assistant, I can't imagine that Percy was particularly well-paid either (though he did manage to afford a flat somewhere in London, so who knows...). And Bill's job at Gringott's seemed more in the line of "technical consultant/troubleshooter", so I assume he was paid on commission; Shell Cottage sounded like a nice place to live, but not particularly large or expensive.

Neville's also a pureblood, but I never got the impression that the Longbottoms were particularly well-off, either. And of course, the Gaunts were pureblooded almost to the point of inbreeding, but pretty much destitute.

I remember Stan; he's the one on the Knight Bus. I don't remember who Ernie is.

Stan Shunpike is the conductor; Ernie Prang is the driver.

Hagrid could be described as working-class as well (West Country accent and all).

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Answering here, because, well, on-topic for this thread...?
I never got the impression that the second necessarily follows from the first.

Admittedly it's been a while since I read them, but I don't remember anything in the books to suggest that Crabbe and Goyle seniors were wealthy, nor any hint that there was a minimum required income to become a Death Eater (I do remember that one of them — MacNair? — comments enviously about the Malfoys' estate at the beginning of Deathly Hallows).

Although it might be fair to say that the level of responsibility Voldemort assigned to any individual Death Eater (and specifically Lucius and Bellatrix) was at least partly related to their wealth, this is possibly an autocorrelation in the sense that any individual's ability to acquire wealth may be a proxy measure of their charisma/ cunning/ ruthlessness (and hence leadership abilities).

Definite counter-examples:

The Weasleys are pureblood, and while Arthur, Bill and Percy all arguably have (upper) middle-class careers (civil servants, banking), we are told repeatedly that Arthur's job in the Misuse of Muggle Artefacts office was not well-paid (though I think he got a raise along with his promotion at the beginning of HBP?). As a junior assistant, I can't imagine that Percy was particularly well-paid either (though he did manage to afford a flat somewhere in London, so who knows...). And Bill's job at Gringott's seemed more in the line of "technical consultant/troubleshooter", so I assume he was paid on commission; Shell Cottage sounded like a nice place to live, but not particularly large or expensive.

Neville's also a pureblood, but I never got the impression that the Longbottoms were particularly well-off, either. And of course, the Gaunts were pureblooded almost to the point of inbreeding, but pretty much destitute.
Stan Shunpike is the conductor; Ernie Prang is the driver.

Hagrid could be described as working-class as well (West Country accent and all).

We can dispense with Hagrid, since he's not even fully human, let alone having any concern regarding blood status. I'm fairly sure that nobody in the wizarding world bothers to consider if Hagrid's human parent was pureblood or halfblood. His nonhuman parent was a giant. Money isn't anything Hagrid worries about. As long as he has the basics and the space to care for his beloved magical creatures, he's happy.

The Malfoys are insanely wealthy even by most pureblood families' standards. There's a video in which wealth is explored. The question is which pureblood family is the wealthiest: Malfoy, Potter, or Black.

Of course pureblood doesn't guarantee wealth. But how many characters who aren't pureblood are wealthy? Yes, Harry is halfblood, but his inheritance comes from pureblood money.

Among the muggle characters, Hermione is likely the most well-off (dentistry is a highly-paid muggle profession, so her parents would have been able to afford the best of muggle things for her).

I should hunt up those videos.

 

[tjs282]

We can dispense with Hagrid, since he's not even fully human, let alone having any concern regarding blood status. I'm fairly sure that nobody in the wizarding world bothers to consider if Hagrid's human parent was pureblood or halfblood.

That bit was more a response to @Ajidica's suggestion that there were very few obviously 'working-class' wizards in the HP books, than a correlation between blood status and wealth.

This is the quote I should (also) have quoted:

I noticed a distinct lack of 'working class' wizards who weren't "'ello, Guv'nor" types.

That said, I guess Hagrid is an "'ello Guv'nor" type!

Hmm... Would dragon-handling make Charley Weasley working-class, maybe?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

That bit was more a response to @Ajidica's suggestion that there were very few obviously 'working-class' wizards in the HP books, than a correlation between blood status and wealth.

This is the quote I should (also) have quoted:
That said, I guess Hagrid is an "'ello Guv'nor" type!

Hmm... Would dragon-handling make Charley Weasley working-class, maybe?

I guess it might put him on par with people who train non-magical animals for things like guard duty (ie. the dragon that guards Gringotts).

On the other hand, the dragons in the Tri-Wizard Tournament were not likely there because they wanted to be. I would guess Charley must get some kind of hazard pay for being in a dangerous profession.

As far as working-class wizards go, there's a variety in Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade; some serve the middle-to-uppercrust, others serve the working class, and I guess if you're the dregs, that's what Knockturn Alley is for. Students come in all levels of society, of course. They don't all shop at the same places (Olivander isn't the only wandmaker, for instance).

 

[Takhisis]

Among the muggle characters, Hermione is likely the most well-off (dentistry is a highly-paid muggle profession, so her parents would have been able to afford the best of muggle things for her).

They go on holiday abroad, she ships them off to Australia in Book 7, Hermione gets extra books, and so on, definitely they do have money.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

They go on holiday abroad, she ships them off to Australia in Book 7, Hermione gets extra books, and so on, definitely they do have money.

There's a story I've been following on fanfiction.net called "Hunting Shadows". It takes place between Prisoner of Azkaban and Goblet of Fire... Sirius is off in Bulgaria searching for Peter Pettigrew, and to help him, Dumbledore arranges for Hermione to apprentice to the healer for the Quidditch team Viktor Krum plays for. Part of Hermione's task is to keep Sirius supplied with Polyjuice Potion so he doesn't get caught.

Of course there's a romantic plot in this, and serves to explain why Hermione and Viktor got together in Goblet of Fire - they'd already met the previous summer. At the point where I left off reading, Viktor has learned that Hermione is some kind of Muggle peer - an uppercrust heiress, since the author can't make up her mind whether Hermione's parents are "desperately normal muggle dentists" in the first chapter, or a count and countess who moonlight as dentists (a few dozen chapters later). I've asked the author to explain this plot point since it makes no sense. Mr. and Mrs. Granger are portrayed as cold, aloof parents who expect nothing short of perfection from Hermione.

It's a great example of how a throwaway line can really annoy a reader when it makes one of the main premises of the story so confusing. Of course if Hermione is the muggle equivalent of a wealthy wizarding heiress, it means she has the social standing for Viktor to consider proposing marriage. I've no idea how the story is going to turn out, since not all fanfics end up following canon.

Anyway, I went on a hunt for the videos that talk about money and wealth, and here are some of them:

How much Wizarding money is worth in the Muggle world, converted to pounds and USD:

How rich is Harry Potter?

Which wizarding family is the wealthiest?

And I just ran across this one, about how much Hogwarts professors are paid:

Finally, I found this one, explaining why the Weasleys may be pureblood, but they're also poor:

 

[Sommerswerd]

We can dispense with Hagrid, since he's not even fully human, let alone having any concern regarding blood status. I'm fairly sure that nobody in the wizarding world bothers to consider if Hagrid's human parent was pureblood or halfblood. His nonhuman parent was a giant. Money isn't anything Hagrid worries about. As long as he has the basics and the space to care for his beloved magical creatures, he's happy.

The Malfoys are insanely wealthy even by most pureblood families' standards. There's a video in which wealth is explored. The question is which pureblood family is the wealthiest: Malfoy, Potter, or Black.

Of course pureblood doesn't guarantee wealth. But how many characters who aren't pureblood are wealthy? Yes, Harry is halfblood, but his inheritance comes from pureblood money.

Among the muggle characters, Hermione is likely the most well-off (dentistry is a highly-paid muggle profession, so her parents would have been able to afford the best of muggle things for her).

I should hunt up those videos.

Damn you Valka! You sent me down the Youtube rabbithole FOR THREE HOURS!!!

I didn't realize Harry was a "half-blood". I always assumed he was pureblood because he had two magical parents. TIL that you need to have full magical ancestry to be considered "pureblood"... thanks internet. Of course once you watch one video or read one article about Harry Potter it's like eating potato chips... you have to watch/read another... and another... and so on...

 

[Takhisis]

I always assumed he was pureblood because he had two magical parents.

His mother is a mudblood so no.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Damn you Valka! You sent me down the Youtube rabbithole FOR THREE HOURS!!!

I didn't realize Harry was a "half-blood". I always assumed he was pureblood because he had two magical parents. TIL that you need to have full magical ancestry to be considered "pureblood"... thanks internet. Of course once you watch one video or read one article about Harry Potter it's like eating potato chips... you have to watch/read another... and another... and so on...

C'mon, you had fun, right?

Have you found the fan films yet? I watched one of them, which is basically a duel between Snape and the Marauders. I tried to watch the one about the Black sisters (Sirius' cousins) but it made no sense at the time. I hadn't read the novels yet, so maybe it might make better sense now.

Then there was one with American accents... no, thank you. And the one that supposedly happens during the Hogwarts years, but the actors are obviously in their 20s, rather than in their teens? Nope.

It is so unfair that we got all this rich history about the Marauders, and hardly any screen time with the four of them in the movies, as they were before everything went to hell.

Right now I'm reading a couple of fanfics - one in which Sirius and Remus are raising Harry (Sirius having told Dumbledore where to stuff the Dursleys), and another in which Harry discovers a very unexpected consequence of being Sirius' sole heir.

(how can you tell the Marauders are my favorite characters? )

And... I'm in the midst of writing a fanfic. It's pure nonsense - a Harry Potter version of Cinderella. I have no idea how it's going to end, because I can't stand the character who would normally be in the role of the Prince.

His mother is a mudblood so no.

Muggleborn.

 

[tjs282]

Muggleborn.

That was my first thought as well.

But let's maybe be charitable, and assume that Takh was subtly implying that the other M-word would be applied by the kind of people who actually consider blood status to be important?

 

[Sommerswerd]

C'mon, you had fun, right?

Have you found the fan films yet? I watched one of them, which is basically a duel between Snape and the Marauders. I tried to watch the one about the Black sisters (Sirius' cousins) but it made no sense at the time. I hadn't read the novels yet, so maybe it might make better sense now.

Then there was one with American accents... no, thank you. And the one that supposedly happens during the Hogwarts years, but the actors are obviously in their 20s, rather than in their teens? Nope.

It is so unfair that we got all this rich history about the Marauders, and hardly any screen time with the four of them in the movies, as they were before everything went to hell.

Right now I'm reading a couple of fanfics - one in which Sirius and Remus are raising Harry (Sirius having told Dumbledore where to stuff the Dursleys), and another in which Harry discovers a very unexpected consequence of being Sirius' sole heir.

(how can you tell the Marauders are my favorite characters? )

And... I'm in the midst of writing a fanfic. It's pure nonsense - a Harry Potter version of Cinderella. I have no idea how it's going to end, because I can't stand the character who would normally be in the role of the Prince.


Muggleborn.

I've been watching all the deleted scenes and people reviewing/analyzing them, but I did enjoy a bunch of "HP theory" stuff, so thanks for letting me know about that. The scene focused on Trelawney during Umbridge's fascistic opening speech to the students was a hoot, I can see why they cut it though, because with all her hilarious antics you can't really focus on anything Umbridge is saying. Plus we already know Trelawney is a goofball, we don't need that scene to establish it. Being introduced to the menacing and sadistic Umbridge is much more important, so staying focused on her creepy, threatening speech her was the better choice. I do wish they had kept in the scene where Dudley breaks with his father and apologizes to Harry as it was earned when Harry saved Dudley from the Dementor. I didn't care so much for the scene with Harry and his aunt, alone in the house, because although it showed him protecting them, it just reinforced what we already knew, that the aunt resents and hates magic and blames it, and by extension, Harry, for all the problems in her life. Her comparing her loss of her sister, who she clearly hated and resented to Harry's loss of his mother was also irritating... it was like she was still trying to make it all about herself and her hardships and grievances... all while Harry is trying to save their lives.

The scene numerous folks seemed the most focused on was Malfoy's "redemption" scene where he runs from his parents and helps Harry get away at in the final battle. I'm actually fine with that scene being cut, for a few of reasons. First, it would have been pretty cliché. Second, I don't think Malfoy really deserved any quick redemption like that... one little betrayal of Voldemort at the very end doesn't make up for all the stuff he's done throughout the story. Third, Malfoy gets redeemed anyway. His redemption is explicitly shown, when he is with his family sending his own son off to Hogwarts. He is obviously well dressed and wealthy, with a beautiful family, and most tellingly...he's not in Azkaban where he so richly deserved to be after Deathly Hallows. To me that is a proper redemption, which he has achieved through the course of his adulthood and whatever actions he obviously took to make up for his evildoing. Finally, I don't think the scene fits, because the way it was shot, Malfoy is running out in the open in clear view, right past Voldemort. Voldemort had already issued the ultimatum at this point to join him or die, so there is no way Malfoy makes it across that courtyard, gets Harry a wand, and makes it back to safety without getting AvadaKedavra'd. Voldemort was so furious at that point he would have murdered Draco without so much as a thought. Thinking about it, I guess that dying to save Harry actually would have redeemed Draco.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I've been watching all the deleted scenes and people reviewing/analyzing them, but I did enjoy a bunch of "HP theory" stuff, so thanks for letting me know about that. The scene focused on Trelawney during Umbridge's fascistic opening speech to the students was a hoot, I can see why they cut it though, because with all her hilarious antics you can't really focus on anything Umbridge is saying. Plus we already know Trelawney is a goofball, we don't need that scene to establish it. Being introduced to the menacing and sadistic Umbridge is much more important, so staying focused on her creepy, threatening speech her was the better choice. I do wish they had kept in the scene where Dudley breaks with his father and apologizes to Harry as it was earned when Harry saved Dudley from the Dementor. I didn't care so much for the scene with Harry and his aunt, alone in the house, because although it showed him protecting them, it just reinforced what we already knew, that the aunt resents and hates magic and blames it, and by extension, Harry, for all the problems in her life. Her comparing her loss of her sister, who she clearly hated and resented to Harry's loss of his mother was also irritating... it was like she was still trying to make it all about herself and her hardships and grievances... all while Harry is trying to save their lives.

Yeah, Petunia's a selfish cow, period. It would have been nice to see Dudley and Harry make peace.

I've just read a fanfic chapter where Amelia Bones (head of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement) finds out what the Dursleys did to Harry throughout his childhood and young teen years (he's 15 in this story, and it's shortly after Sirius' death). One of the things she does is go to the Dursleys and uses the Imperius curse on them (she's the boss; who's gonna prosecute her?), and the only way they can break the curse is to think and say good things about Harry. She spares Dudley, because he begs for mercy, says he knows he did wrong, and had especially realized it after Harry saved him from the Dementors. So she offers him papers to emancipate him from his parents (evidently if Dudley files them, the Muggle courts will somehow accept this), give him a training placement in some sort of police training (so he can have a career in helping people, rather than harming them, particularly children and teens), and cash to help him get a start (place to live, etc.).

The story is unfinished, so I don't know if the author will revisit this; it would be interesting to see if Dudley takes the opportunity he's been handed and make something of himself.

The rest of the story is bizarre... Harry's also emancipated at age 15 (due to some magical aspect of getting his inheritance from Sirius and claiming his overdue inheritance from the Potter estate, since it's not only the money, but the property, the responsibilities of being the head of the House, and the seats on the Wizengamot) - and there's a binding marriage contract included. So Harry's getting married at age 16, Ginny's furious ('cause he doesn't get a choice in his bride), and I have to conclude that while it was fun to see the Dursleys get comeuppance and Sirius is still around as a kind of "spirit presence" in Harry's mind... the rest of the story is just plain nuts.

As for Umbridge's introduction... I hated the Trelawney scene, because all it looked like to me was sheer mockery of a visually-challenged person. She's wearing those HUGE glasses, always stumbling around, can't eat a meal without making a mess (putting her cutlery into her drink, dropping food everywhere)... it's disgusting, not the least bit funny, and I have to wonder who the hell thought it was a good idea in the first place.

The scene numerous folks seemed the most focused on was Malfoy's "redemption" scene where he runs from his parents and helps Harry get away at in the final battle. I'm actually fine with that scene being cut, for a few of reasons. First, it would have been pretty cliché. Second, I don't think Malfoy really deserved any quick redemption like that... one little betrayal of Voldemort at the very end doesn't make up for all the stuff he's done throughout the story. Third, Malfoy gets redeemed anyway. His redemption is explicitly shown, when he is with his family sending his own son off to Hogwarts. He is obviously well dressed and wealthy, with a beautiful family, and most tellingly...he's not in Azkaban where he so richly deserved to be after Deathly Hallows. To me that is a proper redemption, which he has achieved through the course of his adulthood and whatever actions he obviously took to make up for his evildoing. Finally, I don't think the scene fits, because the way it was shot, Malfoy is running out in the open in clear view, right past Voldemort. Voldemort had already issued the ultimatum at this point to join him or die, so there is no way Malfoy makes it across that courtyard, gets Harry a wand, and makes it back to safety without getting AvadaKedavra'd. Voldemort was so furious at that point he would have murdered Draco without so much as a thought. Thinking about it, I guess that dying to save Harry actually would have redeemed Draco.

I agree with your last sentence. Again, fanfic fixes things the movies and books screw up. In one of the stories I'm reading, Draco is scared to death of having to take the Dark Mark, and can't figure out who to turn to for help... so he ends up asking his aunt Andromeda (Tonks' mother). Andromeda realizes that Draco needs a safe place to hide, so she decides to ask Sirius if Draco can stay at 12 Grimmauld Place (since it's warded). Sirius is dubious about that, since Draco is the son of a Death Eater - and Sirius and Lucius were enemies since their Hogwarts days... but Sirius recalls that he was given a break and a safe place to live when he was 15, so he decides to give Draco a chance. Of course this is all before that summer in OOtP when the Weasleys and Harry stay at Grimmauld Place as well, and none of them are happy to discover that Draco Malfoy is also living there.

As it turns out, Draco is rather handy to have on the same side as people hunting Horcruxes.

(I started reading this one not because of Draco, but because I'm partial to stories in which Sirius not only doesn't die, but also gets his name cleared so he can finally be free of Azkaban and Dementors)


I wish the scene where Ron is teaching Hermione how to skip rocks had been included. It made more sense than that stupid dance between Harry and Hermione in which it was obvious that there was ZERO chemistry going on.

Fun fact about the dancing scenes: Apparently Daniel Radcliff is actually a pretty good dancer in RL, even as a kid. So in the Yule Ball scenes where he's stepping all over his date's feet and stumbling around, he had to pretend to be an awful dancer.

 

[Takhisis]

Takh was subtly implying that the other M-word would be applied by the kind of people who actually consider blood status to be important

qft

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I reactivated my Cheezburger account the other day, and now I can go to town on making HP-themed lols (since it's been 3 years since I was last active there and that was before I got hooked on HP):

Spoiler :

 

[Takhisis]

That is a good one.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

That is a good one.

Thanks.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

While en route to watch some Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego? videos, this popped up in my recommendations.

It's a short fan film telling the story of how Bellatrix, Rabastan, and Rodolphus Lestrange tortured Frank and Alice Longbottom following the events at Godric's Hollow when Voldemort was thought to have been killed.

Spoiler in case you didn't know the details about this subplot and would prefer not to be spoiled :

Unlike James and Lily Potter, the Longbottoms were not killed. They were rendered insane by the unremitting use of one of the Unforgivable curses (Cruciatis), and spent the rest of their lives in St. Mungo's Hospital. Their son, Neville, was raised by his grandmother, Augusta Longbottom.

This fan film is better than most; the cinematography isn't bad, and the acting is excellent. My only quibble with it is that they would not have had an electric lamp in the house, as wizards don't use electricity.


Neville Longbottom and the Black Witch

 

[barkerV]

While en route to watch some Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego? videos, this popped up in my recommendations.

It's a short fan film telling the story of how Bellatrix, Rabastan, and Rodolphus Lestrange tortured Frank and Alice Longbottom following the events at Godric's Hollow when Voldemort was thought to have been killed.

Spoiler in case you didn't know the details about this subplot and would prefer not to be spoiled :

Unlike James and Lily Potter, the Longbottoms were not killed. They were rendered insane by the unremitting use of one of the Unforgivable curses (Cruciatis), and spent the rest of their lives in St. Mungo's Hospital. Their son, Neville, was raised by his grandmother, Augusta Longbottom.

This fan film is better than most; the cinematography isn't bad, and the acting is excellent. My only quibble with it is that they would not have had an electric lamp in the house, as wizards don't use electricity.


Neville Longbottom and the Black Witch

Not a bad movie. Sometimes Harry Potter fans are amazing.