All Things Star Wars

[Gori the Grey]

I hear the Jedi possess a tool that could instantly cauterize the wound.

 

[Arakhor]

That might stop Jedi from breaking their vows, but it would probably also increase the number of Sith and other Dark Jedi dramatically.

 

[Sommerswerd]

It's not (unsurprisingly, I agree with Tak): it's the way they're hiding the connection in plain sight. Giving one of them a name that starts with R and another a title that starts with R, so smarty-pants fans like you (who know that) will be blocked from drawing a connection until after the connection is announced, and then people will look back and say, "well, it's kind of like the whole Luke-Leia thing, I guess."

I considered that possibility and rejected it a long time ago... It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Use a light-scalpel.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I considered that possibility and rejected it a long time ago

What did you not understand about how smarty-pants fans will process the Rey-Ren clue?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Not saying you're wrong, but what's funny about this sentence is that it's an almost word-for-word exact description of what happened to Darth Maul in Ep 1.

And he got resurrected for the Clone Wars cartoon...

Yes I'm aware of that, which is why I added the details about actually seeing his dead lifeless face with the tongue hanging out. Despite being cut in half, we never see Maul dead... we just see him falling into the cliche endless chasm that never manages to actually kill anybody...

As an aside... I've argued at length on these threads that the resurrection of Maul as a cyborg in place of the Grievous character would have been excellent in the PT. It even works as a nice foreshadowing of Vader. Grievous is cool but so freaking random... especially if you didn't watch the original Clone Wars cartoon-movie (which was awesome BTW). Maul was such a great villain... the way they killed him off was such a waste. They should have brought him back as a cyborg, becoming more and more machine in each movie until he was "more machine than man", as Obi Wan keeps cutting pieces of him off in their duels. It would've made the feud between Obi Wan and Grievous-Maul so much more personal and meaningful. "You killed my Master!" "You chopped off my arms and legs!" <---Look! more Vader foreshadowing

But alas... they never called me for my input Missed opportunities *sigh*

What did you not understand about how smarty-pants fans will process the Rey-Ren clue?

Oh I get it... Its a "clearly can't choose the wine in front of me situation"... Both glasses are poisoned and the best choice is to reject the game.

That being said... I'll go ahead and ignore my own advice and say that with Abrams back, I think there is a non-negligible chance that what they end up going with afterall is a "We fooled you! She is his sister! We told you she wasn't but that was misdirection to throw you off the scent! Aren't we clever?"

And the smarty-pantses who had been pining away for exactly this will say how brilliant it was that they countered the Star Wars fans' preconditioning to be on the lookout for the "I am your father" moment... throwing them off the trail by specifically telling them "No they're not related"... once they accepted that they can then do the big doublecross reveal... of course conveniently ignoring that its not a big reveal at all if half the smarty-pantses already saw it coming from a mile away.

 

[Takhisis]

smarty-pantses

pot, meet sommer's avatar

 

[Gori the Grey]

with Abrams back, I think there is a non-negligible chance that what they end up going with afterall is a "We fooled you! She is his sister! We told you she wasn't but that was misdirection to throw you off the scent! Aren't we clever?"

There's not a "non negligible chance" and it has nothing to do with Abrams being back. It was the plan all along, when the trilogy was being planned as a trilogy. All three movies have been structured for this reveal. Again look at the hairstyle hug at the end of TFA.

And the smarty-pantses who had been pining away for exactly this will say how brilliant it was that they countered the Star Wars fans' preconditioning to be on the lookout for the "I am your father" moment... throwing them off the trail by specifically telling them "No they're not related"... once they accepted that they can then do the big doublecross reveal... of course conveniently ignoring that its not a big reveal at all if half the smarty-pantses already saw it coming from a mile away.

Yes, they're using smarty-pants' smarty-pantsiness against them. Smarty pantses know that the big reveal comes in the second movie. So they got what they thought was the big reveal in VIII. Then there's going to be a bigger reversing-reveal in IX.

By the way, for my self, I'm not "pining" for one thing or another. I just see where this thing is headed.

 

[Takhisis]

for my self, I'm not "pining" for one thing or another.

Need I point out that, unsurprisingly, I disagree?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Well, of course, now that I have my theory, I want to be right about my theory. All I mean is that, in the abstract, I don't care what Disney does with any given SW movie. All I want in each case is a good movie.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Well, of course, now that I have my theory, I want to be right about my theory.

I rest my case.

 

[r16]

maul comes back in the first instance as a sop to "Get-our-your-bubble-type-of-people" (and ı don't mean that CFC member) to make less of Darth Vader and the surprising turn for good he took in VI ; Balrog dies in the Lord of the Rings .

second , when forced to do so , the Story Board and the like came up with a throughly good story line . While ı still oppose and the like Duchess Satine thing is magnificient .

and hate Xenforo , saw three threads today that the Alerts did not notify me about ...

 

[Traitorfish]

The difference between Maul and Snoke is, it wasn't narratively important that Maul was dead, just that he was defeated. They pretty much do kill him in Episode I, because that's an easy way to signal "beaten", but the film wouldn't have been fundamentally different if he'd punted down the hole in one piece, so subsequent material can fudge the specifics without any real issue. With Snoke, it's important that the audiences he is dead, gone, deceased, an ex-Sith, and that Kylo Ren killed him. If Snoke comes back, it can't just be "Oh, I got better", it has to mean something in the context of Kylo and Rey's shared arcs.

 

[Gori the Grey]

ean something in the context of Kylo and Rey's shared arcs

This guy gets it. How 'bout a story arc that goes back and explains that one huge mystery that was raised in I but has never been addressed: the fatherless conception of Anakin?

I rest my case

Rest what case? How does my wanting to prove correct bear on the substance of the debate? I'll either prove right or I won't. You've got the pod before its engines. It's not that I want to be right about something and therefore I've invented a theory to promulgate. Rather, I've seen where I think the films are headed, sketched it for you guys, met with nothing but opposition and thus defended it, and now that I've had to defend it I want to prove correct. I'm staking my entire reputation for understanding Star Wars story logic on this theory. I'm not shuffling. I'm not making anything vague. Everyone who goes to see the movie will know instantly whether I was correct or not, and come ridicule me mercilessly if I wasn't.

All I ask is that if I'm right, you worship me with the fervor the ewoks manifested for C3P0.

 

[Takhisis]

All I ask is that if I'm right, you worship me with the fervor the ewoks manifested for C3P0.

Unsurprisingly, I (and Sommer) disagree.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Having not particularly attacked the theory I will not be among the worshipful Ewok hoards should it prove correct.

 

[Gori the Grey]

You should worship me even so. The worship is not to be based on my having overcome objections. The worship is to be based simply on sheer fact of my having intuited in advance the plot of the next film. Whether you have objected or not, you have observed others objecting, so you know that my theory can't be counted as "common knowledge" or "stuff everyone else has already thought of." That's grounds enough for worship, if gold skin is!

 

[Takhisis]

That's grounds enough for worship

Well, unsurprisingly, yet again, I disagree.

you're just giving me material to work with, it's like shooting barrels in a fish

 

[Timsup2nothin]

You should worship me even so. The worship is not to be based on my having overcoming objections. The worship is to be based simply on sheer fact of my having intuited in advance the plot of the next film. Whether you have objected or not, you have observed others objecting, so you know that my theory can't be counted as "common knowledge" or "stuff everyone else has already thought of." That's grounds enough for worship, if gold skin is!

Hmmmm. A cogent argument. However, to be really effective one must build this on the assumption "Star Wars movies are not pretty much predictable, almost to the point of trite." I find little evidence that such an assumption is warranted.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Well, I'll keep coming back to my core (surprising) experience of having this discussion here. I thought that my starting proposition, the proposition that Ren and Rey are brother and sister, would be utterly uncontroversial. For the very grounds you say: that Star Wars movies are predictable. My term for it is that the Star Wars films have a particular story logic. I assumed that all of my fellow Star Wars fans on this site would have seen that development as clearly as I see it. But as it turns out, a good number don't see it my way at all. In fact I can't think of anyone who has said "Yeah, you're probably right; that's probably where it's all going."

So I'll put the question to you: if Star Wars movies are so predictable, why aren't any of the Star Wars fans here making the same prediction as I am about the plot of IX?

One possible answer: I'm wrong. Ok, we'll know that in a year. But if I turn out to be right, what will it mean that I was the only one here who could predict these totally predictable movies?

What it will say to me is that I'm better at Star Wars story logic than the lot of you. And that therefore I deserve worship of the sort afforded by the Ewoks to C3P0.