All Things Star Wars

Sith or Jedi?

  • Sith

    Votes: 32 37.2%

  • Jedi

    Votes: 51 59.3%

  • Chuck Norris

    Votes: 3 3.5%
  • Total voters
    86
Other than Hux and/or Kylo Ren, you mean?
 
Takhisis said:
Other than Hux and/or Kylo Ren, you mean?
Click to expand...

Hux was used as comic relief and was a joke.

Kylo Ren was Darth Emo and was to wishy washy. Luke also made him look like a fool. They needed an effective villain and they didn't have one.

I suspect we will end up with 3 disjointed movies.
 
Zardnaar said:
Hux was used as comic relief and was a joke.
Click to expand...
And yet his final intervention in TLJ actually made him seem serious, more level-headed and with more of a military mind than Kylo Ren.
 
Takhisis said:
And yet his final intervention in TLJ actually made him seem serious, more level-headed and with more of a military mind than Kylo Ren.
Click to expand...

I like Hux but like mist if the characters they haven't developed him properly.
 
Synsensa said:
Edit: Speaking of which, I have a ticket for a VIP theatre on New Year's Eve. I'll need to avoid spoilers for two weeks.
Click to expand...
As an early Christmas present, my wife decided to get tickets for all of us to see the local (English) premiere. This will be the fourth of the Disney SW-films that I'll have seen in the cinema (missed Solo, no-one else was interested), but the first in the original English rather than the German dub (and I still haven't watched TFA or TLJ in English!). Not that I'm expecting that to make much difference to my appreciation of it (or lack thereof), it's not as though any of the SW movies have plots (or scripts!) which are particularly difficult to follow, in any language :lol:
 
A cook backstory? She takes after Mary Berry, I assume? :)
 
Zardnaar said:
They didn't have much choice with Palpatine. They didn't have a villain.
Click to expand...
That's one of the biggest issues - the sequels so far remind me of a college writing exercise where you write a paragraph of a story and then pass it around. Pretty soon the story veers off in a different direction than you intended, and ends up utterly disjointed. Then you get the one student who makes the story get weird twists and turns that subvert everyone's expectations but which write the story into a corner.

That's what we have now. While I'm not sure what Abrams's plans were, Johnson just derailed the story, cut a lot of potential plots short, and generally wrote it into a corner. The Big Bad is gone, there are no worthy villains to take his place, the First Order is led by unthreatening buffoons, and the Resistance is small enough to sit at a single table.

This left Abrams in the unenviable position of having to come up with a proper villain while explaining how a dozen or so people can retake an entire galaxy within a few years at most. And it seems he's just lazily un-killing a character to be the villain - again.

I wanted to see a New Republic, a new Jedi Order, and a new Empire, each of which took notes from its predecessors while learning lessons from their demises. Instead, we got a New Republic that vanished within a week, a Jedi Order that was tiny and quickly snuffed out, and an Empire that STILL obsesses over superweapons with easily exploited weaknesses.

And terribly timed jokes.
 
Very well said @Phrossack !
───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
Not meant to be political, but I found this amusing: Why Baby Yoda should scare Michael Bloomberg and Deval Patrick
& Baby Yoda is trending higher than most 2020 Democratic hopefuls

From the second article:
The breakout star of “The Mandalorian” is driving nearly twice as many average social media interactions in news stories about it as any 2020 Democratic hopeful...
Click to expand...
From the first article:
Because this data only captures interactions with news stories, it doesn't take in the wealth of Baby Yoda memes, GIFs, and content native to social media — meaning that the character's reach is probably far wider.
Click to expand...
Spoiler :

When your parents finally let you sit up front. :lol: *Turn sound on*

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=439993933378146
 
Phrossack said:
That's one of the biggest issues - the sequels so far remind me of a college writing exercise where you write a paragraph of a story and then pass it around. Pretty soon the story veers off in a different direction than you intended, and ends up utterly disjointed. Then you get the one student who makes the story get weird twists and turns that subvert everyone's expectations but which write the story into a corner.

That's what we have now. While I'm not sure what Abrams's plans were, Johnson just derailed the story, cut a lot of potential plots short, and generally wrote it into a corner. The Big Bad is gone, there are no worthy villains to take his place, the First Order is led by unthreatening buffoons, and the Resistance is small enough to sit at a single table.

This left Abrams in the unenviable position of having to come up with a proper villain while explaining how a dozen or so people can retake an entire galaxy within a few years at most. And it seems he's just lazily un-killing a character to be the villain - again.

I wanted to see a New Republic, a new Jedi Order, and a new Empire, each of which took notes from its predecessors while learning lessons from their demises. Instead, we got a New Republic that vanished within a week, a Jedi Order that was tiny and quickly snuffed out, and an Empire that STILL obsesses over superweapons with easily exploited weaknesses.

And terribly timed jokes.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think RoS will be ok b
Laurana Kanan said:
Very well said @Phrossack !
───────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────
Not meant to be political, but I found this amusing: Why Baby Yoda should scare Michael Bloomberg and Deval Patrick
& Baby Yoda is trending higher than most 2020 Democratic hopefuls

From the second article:

From the first article:

Spoiler :

When your parents finally let you sit up front. :lol: *Turn sound on*

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=439993933378146
Click to expand...

Green better than orange.
 
Mandalorian comic book covers by DVGLZV (unofficial) and new Thrawn book cover (official) -

Spoiler :





-------------------------------------

Upcoming Thrawn book

 
Phrossack said:
I wanted to see a New Republic, a new Jedi Order, and a new Empire, each of which took notes from its predecessors while learning lessons from their demises. Instead, we got a New Republic that vanished within a week, a Jedi Order that was tiny and quickly snuffed out, and an Empire that STILL obsesses over superweapons with easily exploited weaknesses.

And terribly timed jokes.
Click to expand...

And we got all three of those from Abrams himself. We can't know his plans because he doesn't make plans. He starts something and leaves it for someone else to finish!

I for one am glad we have no Snoke. What did you want, a rehash on VI after a rehash of V after a rehash of IV? The Emperor served the singular purpose of providing Vader with a chance at redemption. He never was the villain, Vader was. He was brought in once it was decided that Vader would turn. You don't need him around if he's not. Similarly, Snoke was just Emperor 2.0 and his existence sort of diminished the direct confrontation between the protagonists. It keeps up the impression that Ben can be turned.

Interestingly enough, and completely unlike Vader, Ben is a character you could believe would turn. Vader was just a cypher of evil. I can buy trying to save his son, but I don't buy that he'd turn to the light. I'd buy it if he had pulled a Kylo and said "join me and rule the Galaxy together" once more. But no, he turns. And we buy the turn because, I don't know. The movie tells us he turns. We are emotionally invested in this outcome, so we are eager to take it at face value.

I don't like everything in The Last Jedi, but I appreciate Johnson trying something different and mostly pulling it off, and clearing out some of those Mystery Boxes that Abrams like to pull out of his rear end. Why should Rey's parentage matter? Is one Skywalker not enough? Who is this Snoke, wherever the hell did he come from and can he go bck there please? Clearly Abrams wanted to use Snokeperor for IX, but once he's dead could not think of an interesting way to bring about a clash between Kylo and Rey??? For some reason??? He could have done literally anything. He had a blank slate. His entire job was to bring about that final confrontation. And he couldn't think of something that did not involve the Emperor? Lazy arse.
 
JohannaK said:
And we got all three of those from Abrams himself. We can't know his plans because he doesn't make plans. He starts something and leaves it for someone else to finish!

I for one am glad we have no Snoke. What did you want, a rehash on VI after a rehash of V after a rehash of IV? The Emperor served the singular purpose of providing Vader with a chance at redemption. He never was the villain, Vader was. He was brought in once it was decided that Vader would turn. You don't need him around if he's not. Similarly, Snoke was just Emperor 2.0 and his existence sort of diminished the direct confrontation between the protagonists. It keeps up the impression that Ben can be turned.

Interestingly enough, and completely unlike Vader, Ben is a character you could believe would turn. Vader was just a cypher of evil. I can buy trying to save his son, but I don't buy that he'd turn to the light. I'd buy it if he had pulled a Kylo and said "join me and rule the Galaxy together" once more. But no, he turns. And we buy the turn because, I don't know. The movie tells us he turns. We are emotionally invested in this outcome, so we are eager to take it at face value.

I don't like everything in The Last Jedi, but I appreciate Johnson trying something different and mostly pulling it off, and clearing out some of those Mystery Boxes that Abrams like to pull out of his rear end. Why should Rey's parentage matter? Is one Skywalker not enough? Who is this Snoke, wherever the hell did he come from and can he go bck there please? Clearly Abrams wanted to use Snokeperor for IX, but once he's dead could not think of an interesting way to bring about a clash between Kylo and Rey??? For some reason??? He could have done literally anything. He had a blank slate. His entire job was to bring about that final confrontation. And he couldn't think of something that did not involve the Emperor? Lazy arse.
Click to expand...
I wasn't happy with A New Hope 2, but TLJ actually killed my interest in Star Wars for two years.

Killing off Snoke without introducing any proper final villain was a mistake. I think it's been telegraphed from the beginning that Ben will be redeemed, and due to his embarrassing failures, it's hard to take him seriously as a major villain. So Abrams scrounged through past scripts and recycled an old villain. Also a bad move. Abrams started the sequels on the wrong foot. Johnson decided to change the dance mid-song. It's clear neither of them understands what Star Wars is.

I didn't want a rehash of Empire Strikes Back, but the purpose of Act 2 is to move the plot forward and set it up for the final confrontation. TLJ severed most possible plot lines and turned what should have been a galactic conflict into a mid-sized group of buffoonish villains chasing a tiny group of unimpressive heroes around a table to the tune of "Yakety Sax." Empire Strikes Back established that a fair amount of Rebels survived, and that the Empire was a serious threat despite the loss of the Death Star. But the First Order and the Resistance are bad jokes and pale imitations. I can't take either seriously at all.

I wish we'd seen a sequel trilogy with factions that had learned from the past, something like this:

  • A New Republic that has avoided the mistakes of the old one by establishing a standing military and rotates its capital to better represent other planets (they got the second one);
  • A new Jedi Order, perhaps one that is a bit less orthodox and traditional in its rules;
  • An Imperial remnant made up of those more loyal to the Empire than the Emperor and which refused to carry out Operation: Cinder, and which features the better military of the First Order while ditching superweapons; and
  • A remnant dedicated to the Emperor rather than the Empire, which includes wielders of the Dark Side who are nonetheless not Sith.
Something like that would have set up a galactic conflict without crudely copying the previous movies. Everyone would have taken cues from the past while learning from their mistakes and moving forward. It would have been different from the one-on-one asymmetrical warfare of the OT or the one-on-one symmetrical warfare of the PT. We could've eventually even seen some Imperial remnants side with the heroes, if only temporarily. And most importantly, it's more satisfying to see characters make reasonable decisions than suicidally stupid ones, which is what the Sequel trilogy has been all about thus far.
 
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