Altered Maps V: The Molotov-Threadentropp Pact

[Marla_Singer]

I just looked at the list of most common surnames over the internet. I compared both the French and American list. The funny fact is that the first non-English/French surname to appear on both list is the Spanish name "Garcia". It's the 15th most common name in France and the 18th most common name in the US.

This being said, surnames are a lot more diverse in France than in the US. As a result, there are actually 10 times more Garcia in the US than in France (whereas there are "only" 5 times more Americans than French people).

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Apparently that didn't transfer to the 5 families that colonized Quebec.

I remember the neat thing about the American surname list on Wikipedia was how it was broken down by ethnicity (African American, Hispanic, White).

 

[Quackers]

Too soon? It's been almost 4 years!

It takes a long time to get over these things..

 

[Theige]

I just looked at the list of most common surnames over the internet. I compared both the French and American list. The funny fact is that the first non-English/French surname to appear on both list is the Spanish name "Garcia". It's the 15th most common name in France and the 18th most common name in the US.

This being said, surnames are a lot more diverse in France than in the US. As a result, there are actually 10 times more Garcia in the US than in France (whereas there are "only" 5 times more Americans than French people).

Well we are about 15% Hispanic, that is where all the Garcias come from.

I highly doubt France has a higher diversity of Surnames, given the ancestral history of each nation.

Also, your statistics are out of date. In 1990 Garcia was the 18th most common, by 2000 it was the 8th most common.

 

[Marla_Singer]

I highly doubt France has a higher diversity of Surnames, given the ancestral history of each nation.

France has the highest diversity of surnames in Europe. That comes from several factors:

1/ France never experienced a real demographic booming similar to our neighbours. As a result, the "Smiths" and "Johnsons" reproduced like rabbits in Britain which is a lot less true in France.

2/ France has multiple cultural origins : the country was firstly peopled by Celts, then it has been latinized by the Romans, then germanized by the Franks. We also have strong and diverse regional cultures : Normandy, Brittany, Alsace, Picardy, Basque, Catalonia, Savoy, Auvergne, French Caribbeans, Reunion...

3/ France is the OLDEST country of immigration in Europe. We have continuously welcomed immigrants since the 19th century, at a time when all our neighbours were actually sending emigrants to the rest of the world. France is a unique country in Europe in that regard (Of course, this is mainly due to our historical very low demographic growth).



As a result, the most common name in France "Martin" is only represented by 235,000 people, which means it wouldn't make the top 10 in Spain or the UK! There are more "Johanssons" in Sweden than "Martins" in France!

By the way, all these factors also explain why French people reject the concept of "French ethnicity" that Americans try to enforce on them (for instance on Wikipedia). Regarding History, considering there's a French ethnicity is as STUPID as considering there's an American ethnicity.

 

[say1988]

Weird map considering I'd have guessed a good third of Americans are named Johnson, Smith, Jones, Taylor, Brown, Williams or any similar names we hear daily on US TV shows.
Granted 10% of them are probably black... but I hardly believe any white guy with such a surname could deny his English ancestry. And even those who are black probably also have white ancestors... the opposite would be very sad after three centuries of coexistence in the country.

Also remember that in the US many Germans and such adopted Anglicized names when they immigrated. For example, many Schmidts became Smiths to avoid discrimination and to gain wider acceptance (this would have ocurred through to the mid 20th century at least with the world wars creating plenty of anti-German sentiment).
How common it was, I am not certain, but it was quite normal in Canada at least and I know people with very English surnames with no British ancestry.

 

[RedRalph]

How can there possibly be more Irish Americans than Mexican Americans?

 

[Quackers]

I would expect that there would be a large diversity of British surnames considering we are composed of three seperate nations. Does anybody know?

 

[ArneHD]

I would expect that there would be a large diversity of British surnames considering we are composed of three seperate nations. Does anybody know?

Four, you forgot Northern Ireland.

 

[RedRalph]

Four, you forgot Northern Ireland.

Nope, Britian has 3 nations, the UK has 4.

 

[Quackers]

Northen Ireland was settled by Scots and English so surely they have inherited those surnames and therefore there is not a lot of differance.

 

[say1988]

Not according to the 2000 Census. Though, according to wiki's source link the "Scottish" is actually English.

We also don't know where or how they got their data. Was it choose one, or select all that apply? As well, it may only include citizens and/or legal residents. That could account for other discrepancies from a persons perception of the population, and your perception is skewed by your location. i.e. If you live in Southern California, you will perceive a greater amount of Mexicans than someone from Michigan.

 

[Traitorfish]

I would expect that there would be a large diversity of British surnames considering we are composed of three seperate nations. Does anybody know?

There's a surprising amount of Scottish Gaelic surnames, I know that. Not that you see most of them very often, and there's as many people with English surnames- and, in the West, Irish Gaelic- as there are Scottish Gaelic.
Strangely enough, I've heard Wales is rather the other way around, with quite a limited pool of surnames, but I'm not sure if there's any truth to it.

 

[TheLastOne36]

France has the highest diversity of surnames in Europe. That comes from several factors:

1/ France never experienced a real demographic booming similar to our neighbours. As a result, the "Smiths" and "Johnsons" reproduced like rabbits in Britain which is a lot less true in France.

2/ France has multiple cultural origins : the country was firstly peopled by Celts, then it has been latinized by the Romans, then germanized by the Franks. We also have strong and diverse regional cultures : Normandy, Brittany, Alsace, Picardy, Basque, Catalonia, Savoy, Auvergne, French Caribbeans, Reunion...

3/ France is the OLDEST country of immigration in Europe. We have continuously welcomed immigrants since the 19th century, at a time when all our neighbours were actually sending emigrants to the rest of the world. France is a unique country in Europe in that regard (Of course, this is mainly due to our historical very low demographic growth).



As a result, the most common name in France "Martin" is only represented by 235,000 people, which means it wouldn't make the top 10 in Spain or the UK! There are more "Johanssons" in Sweden than "Martins" in France!

By the way, all these factors also explain why French people reject the concept of "French ethnicity" that Americans try to enforce on them (for instance on Wikipedia). Regarding History, considering there's a French ethnicity is as STUPID as considering there's an American ethnicity.

This means the only solution is to balkanize France.

 

[warpus]

Also remember that in the US many Germans and such adopted Anglicized names when they immigrated. For example, many Schmidts became Smiths to avoid discrimination and to gain wider acceptance (this would have ocurred through to the mid 20th century at least with the world wars creating plenty of anti-German sentiment).
How common it was, I am not certain, but it was quite normal in Canada at least and I know people with very English surnames with no British ancestry.

A lot of Polish immigrants did the same. I had a boss who's last name was Rock, whereas his original family name was Rak (pronounced Rack). A silly change, but they made it anyway, in order to better fit in and have better employment opportunities.

 

[Yared]

I know of a Turkish family who changed their name from "Orhan" to "Bertilsson". Of course, now their first names are horribly mismatched with their surnames but if it helps then good.

 

[Harvin87]

Hamit Bertilsson

 

[Yared]

Hamit Bertilsson

Hamit Fritzgerald?

 

[say1988]

A lot of Polish immigrants did the same. I had a boss who's last name was Rock, whereas his original family name was Rak (pronounced Rack). A silly change, but they made it anyway, in order to better fit in and have better employment opportunities.

Portions of every nationality did and it still occurs on occasion (the Sheens being a famous example, though it is not their legal name, I would suspect that the Anglicization [or at least not Spanish] was not unintentional) and has occurred throughout history.
Perhaps it is less common for visible minorities, though, since it doesn't do them as much good.
And remember, it isn't always a racial/ethnic thing, I know number who adapted their name (first, last, or both) simply to make it pronounceable for the average person (the first that come to mind, from personal experience, are eastern Europeans with names clearly from there, but simplified). Some just chance the pronunciation, others change the spelling entirely.

That said, the Schmidt (or variations thereof) to Smith was quite common (due to the number of Germans immigrants and the name being so common among Germans and the two are quite similar).

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

How can there possibly be more Irish Americans than Mexican Americans?

You only have to be a fraction Irish. Most of the Mexicans are almost all Mexican.