das
Regeneration In Process
But why the hell not burn it anyway, as a blow to Roman culture and pride if nothing else?
Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!
- Thread starter Amenhotep7
- Start date
Kozmos
Jew Detective
1945-USSR drops a-bomb on Berlin ending ww2
1969-Britain joins communist block,the last european country to do so.
1982-Despite US protest mid range nukes are placed on Cuba.
1997-Communist party wins election in Mexico,cheating suspected.
2001-USSR invades Americaa and wins,but freedom fighters all around America are fighting the Red Army.
1969-Britain joins communist block,the last european country to do so.
1982-Despite US protest mid range nukes are placed on Cuba.
1997-Communist party wins election in Mexico,cheating suspected.
2001-USSR invades Americaa and wins,but freedom fighters all around America are fighting the Red Army.
SKILORD
Insurgent
The USSR was probably the furthest nation away from having the bomb in the world in 1945, and I just don't see them bombing Berlin when they were so close to capturing it intact (alright, not intact, but moreso than if a bomb had been dropped on it).
There are other problems with the TL, but I don't have time to fully examine them.
There are other problems with the TL, but I don't have time to fully examine them.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
Yeah this is a timeline from freedom fighters,I just thought it was a nice timeline and that it would be interesting,I had no intention of "stealing" 
das
Regeneration In Process
Cleric, technically that timeline is a very weak one indeed. Mostly because I could easily challenge EVERY event mentioned.
How did USSR get the bomb? Why drop it? It is a VERY unStalinesque move.
Um, why? And besides, just HOW do you imagine Communism in Vatican, a perfectly European nation? Anyway, even if the rest of Europe somehow allies with the Soviets (well, if SCANDINAVIAN NATIONS join this as well I will probably fall over and die), Britain is very unlikely to do so.
Why so late? And why place them in the first place if the Cold War is pretty much won?
Okay, so maybe Mexico could be a good place to install Communism, or pretty much any other government. But one'd expect USA to act...
To get that, you probably need Chikatilenko in charge of USSR. Nobody apart from that sociopath is not very likely to even WANT to invade USA, and only he would actually try to carry it out. The Soviets, much unlike what some believed, carred little for "world conquest" in the first place (maybe "world dominance" under "Koba"), and triple so after WWII. The most anti-USA Soviet politicians wanted to simply grab away USA's allies one by one, and let USA's system collapse on itself. In a scenario such as this, with USA losing all of its European allies and markets, that is not too unlikely.
Perhaps this is the scenario that you need for a Soviet Europe. In 1940, Battle of Britain is less decisive and the German air force is much more intact. As a result, Hitler decides to get rid of the British first and THEN attack the Soviets. As 1941 begun, the bombing resumes, and so "Operation: Sealion" begun soon after. The British are not really taken by surprise, but Mannstein drives to London. After that, the front stalemates as the British employ partisan warfare and so on. A failed British "Winter Counteroffensive" 1941-42 nearly led to the British collapse, if not for the Pearl Harbor and the American entry into the war. American troops restore the lines and hold the German countercounteroffensive just outside of Nottingham.
In Spring 1942, Operation: Storm has begun. Soviet forces attacked the lax and greatly-reduced (to provide for yet another push at Nottingham) German defenses and came near Berlin in the beginning of the war. Axis minor powers in Eastern Europe provided somehow better resistance as more of their forces were still at home, but then again, numerous Axis minor troops were comitted to occupying Yugoslavia. Turkey enters the war as well, citing it as a repayment of the Turkish debt to the Soviets, providing Bulgaria's quick collapse. Romania is a tougher nut to cruck, but the sheer manpower poured in proves enough, though casualties are high due to incompetent command there. After that and Hungary's capitulation, the Germans don't have an oil source. The Soviets were somehow checked at Vienna and Berlin, but manage to "liberate" Prague after another expensive offensive. Hitler tries to rally the people of Europe against the Eastern Hordes, getting rather moderate support as many politicians, including Franco, believe that the Germans are about to collapse.
That is not so. Germans still fight on on both fronts, but eventually are forced to pull back to Dover in the English Front and to withdraw the Afrika Korps to defend Berlin. But as oil runs out, and the Soviets begin to adopt the German armored doctrine and combine it with the superior Soviet tanks, the Soviets eventually break through and seize Berlin. After another costly urban battle, in which the Germans used huge amounts of nerve gas in Vienna, the Soviets encircle Vienna though depleting an entire Front in the initial assaukts (as in Army Corps). The German lines are collapsing, and after a coup, led by Rommel who wanted to sign peace with the Western Allies, fails Hitler becomes very paranoid, much like Stalin, and purges several other generals. Final Solution takes place, but by then several prison camps are in Soviet-held territory.
The Germans still fight on, but soon after, the Americans are fresh from their successes in England and land in Norway and Denmark, opening another "Second Front". French, Italian and Yugoslavian communists rebel and partisans tie down large German forces. By 1944, the Germans retreated under joint Soviet-Allied pressure towards Rhineland. Hitler was captured, but commited suicide. Soon after, communists completely take over in France, Yugoslavia, Italy and Rhineland. The Soviets dominate a large part of Europe after the war, though formally it is not so. In Germany, there are two large French (West Germany) and Soviet (East Germany) occupation zones (both communist) in Germany's mainland, while the coastline is split up by Americans and British (North Germany). Japan fights on until 1946, when the Americans decide that Operation Olympus is failing and dropped the bomb on the Japanese HQ in Sapporo. Korea and Japan are divided North-South, as is China.
The Cold War begins, with the West in a serious disadvantage...
How did USSR get the bomb? Why drop it? It is a VERY unStalinesque move.
Um, why? And besides, just HOW do you imagine Communism in Vatican, a perfectly European nation?
Anyway, even if the rest of Europe somehow allies with the Soviets (well, if SCANDINAVIAN NATIONS join this as well I will probably fall over and die), Britain is very unlikely to do so.Why so late? And why place them in the first place if the Cold War is pretty much won?
Okay, so maybe Mexico could be a good place to install Communism, or pretty much any other government. But one'd expect USA to act...
To get that, you probably need Chikatilenko in charge of USSR. Nobody apart from that sociopath is not very likely to even WANT to invade USA, and only he would actually try to carry it out. The Soviets, much unlike what some believed, carred little for "world conquest" in the first place (maybe "world dominance" under "Koba"), and triple so after WWII. The most anti-USA Soviet politicians wanted to simply grab away USA's allies one by one, and let USA's system collapse on itself. In a scenario such as this, with USA losing all of its European allies and markets, that is not too unlikely.
Perhaps this is the scenario that you need for a Soviet Europe. In 1940, Battle of Britain is less decisive and the German air force is much more intact. As a result, Hitler decides to get rid of the British first and THEN attack the Soviets. As 1941 begun, the bombing resumes, and so "Operation: Sealion" begun soon after. The British are not really taken by surprise, but Mannstein drives to London. After that, the front stalemates as the British employ partisan warfare and so on. A failed British "Winter Counteroffensive" 1941-42 nearly led to the British collapse, if not for the Pearl Harbor and the American entry into the war. American troops restore the lines and hold the German countercounteroffensive just outside of Nottingham.
In Spring 1942, Operation: Storm has begun. Soviet forces attacked the lax and greatly-reduced (to provide for yet another push at Nottingham) German defenses and came near Berlin in the beginning of the war. Axis minor powers in Eastern Europe provided somehow better resistance as more of their forces were still at home, but then again, numerous Axis minor troops were comitted to occupying Yugoslavia. Turkey enters the war as well, citing it as a repayment of the Turkish debt to the Soviets, providing Bulgaria's quick collapse. Romania is a tougher nut to cruck, but the sheer manpower poured in proves enough, though casualties are high due to incompetent command there. After that and Hungary's capitulation, the Germans don't have an oil source. The Soviets were somehow checked at Vienna and Berlin, but manage to "liberate" Prague after another expensive offensive. Hitler tries to rally the people of Europe against the Eastern Hordes, getting rather moderate support as many politicians, including Franco, believe that the Germans are about to collapse.
That is not so. Germans still fight on on both fronts, but eventually are forced to pull back to Dover in the English Front and to withdraw the Afrika Korps to defend Berlin. But as oil runs out, and the Soviets begin to adopt the German armored doctrine and combine it with the superior Soviet tanks, the Soviets eventually break through and seize Berlin. After another costly urban battle, in which the Germans used huge amounts of nerve gas in Vienna, the Soviets encircle Vienna though depleting an entire Front in the initial assaukts (as in Army Corps). The German lines are collapsing, and after a coup, led by Rommel who wanted to sign peace with the Western Allies, fails Hitler becomes very paranoid, much like Stalin, and purges several other generals. Final Solution takes place, but by then several prison camps are in Soviet-held territory.
The Germans still fight on, but soon after, the Americans are fresh from their successes in England and land in Norway and Denmark, opening another "Second Front". French, Italian and Yugoslavian communists rebel and partisans tie down large German forces. By 1944, the Germans retreated under joint Soviet-Allied pressure towards Rhineland. Hitler was captured, but commited suicide. Soon after, communists completely take over in France, Yugoslavia, Italy and Rhineland. The Soviets dominate a large part of Europe after the war, though formally it is not so. In Germany, there are two large French (West Germany) and Soviet (East Germany) occupation zones (both communist) in Germany's mainland, while the coastline is split up by Americans and British (North Germany). Japan fights on until 1946, when the Americans decide that Operation Olympus is failing and dropped the bomb on the Japanese HQ in Sapporo. Korea and Japan are divided North-South, as is China.
The Cold War begins, with the West in a serious disadvantage...
SKILORD
Insurgent
Remember that the Nazis declared war on us after we did so against the japs after they attacked us, it is concievable that Hitler would want to delay this declaration as long as possible to allow himself as much of an advantage against the British as remains. If that happens then he takes Nottingham and maybe the partisans keep him from moving much further up and even make England hard to hold onto, Ireland and Scotland are given independence as the Soviets thunder in in exchange for troops to help slow down the Soviets. This is not decisive and makes little difference.
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Also, you don't mention El-Alamein, Monty might well have seen troops diverted to Britain after Sealion lands, giving Rommel a win there potentially, and if he does, well what did the oilfields in the mideast look like?
das
Regeneration In Process
I've read a good discussion on "Hitler doesn't declare war on USA", and many people tend to agree that USA would have entered the war anyway - some say that "a new Lusitania is bound to show up", with hints that it might be fabricated. In that case, ofcourse, post-war Britain could either be reunited like Yugoslavia, either remain broken. Ofcourse, the former is more likely, but there will be some resurgence of nationalism in that case.
I DID mention the Afrika Korps withdrawing. Now that I thought of it, perhaps before being recalled to Germany Rommel might break into Palestine. If the Final Solution reaches it as well, and especially if the same is done to the Arabs (them, after all, being Semites and Hitler condemning them as such several times), then situation gets... interesting in the post-war Mideast indeed.
I DID mention the Afrika Korps withdrawing. Now that I thought of it, perhaps before being recalled to Germany Rommel might break into Palestine. If the Final Solution reaches it as well, and especially if the same is done to the Arabs (them, after all, being Semites and Hitler condemning them as such several times), then situation gets... interesting in the post-war Mideast indeed.
SKILORD
Insurgent
Sorry, I thought that the commies attacked after 1942, after rereading it they don't.
Insane_Panda
Deity
Well, the Forbidden City would probably rival St. Peter's Basilica on terms of greatest structure in the world. They were both completed at about the same time, and the Forbidden City itself was just HUGE, and houses many beautiful works of art. Although, St. Peter's Basilica was only a single building, not a series of structures inside a walled area, as was the Forbidden city, so comparing the two together might be a little difficult..
Personally though, I like the look of St. Peter's Basilica more
Anyways, sorry for the OT rant, Now lets see some more AH timelines.
das
Regeneration In Process
They attacked IN 1942. Since they attacked in Spring, that was before El Alamein, right? So I guess not... Though Rommel might have launched a strong offensive earlier, just after Sealion.
The Forbidden City is a CITY, from what I know, not a building. And IP, I like Forbidden City more.
The Forbidden City is a CITY, from what I know, not a building. And IP, I like Forbidden City more.
Sgt.Hellfish
King of the Oceans
Well at El Alamein alone there were 2 distinctive battles, one foght by Auchenleck (probably spelt wrong 
) and teh more famous one by Monty, the first lured german armour and advance divisions into a massive killing box entrapping tanks in soft sad and pelting them from the heights arond El Al, after this Rommel was incapable of laucnhing an assault upon the British line.
As for sealion, The British beaches werent exactly the Atlantic wall however they were defended convincingly and would of caused high casualties upon German landings, also if the RAF won teh Battle of Britain but not at a cost high enough to stop Sealion then the Aerial battles would've been intense however newer better marks of spitfire would've dominated all marks of 109 and some 190s especially as the luftwaffe had a much shorter timespan over England. This added to the experience of the British fighters and the fact that if they bailed out they would most likely be returned to their unit would've ended in British aerial supremacy. Thus meaning that the Typhoon, Bolton, hurricanes etc would've had a field day on the hastily constructed barges costing the germans highly in men and equipment.
Add to this the fact that britain was an intricate killing zone which knew from where its enemies were going to strike. If you thought that D-Day was bad this would probably have rivaled it if not bettered it in terms of bloodshed. I have personally seen the preparations for landing and it is worrying and sickening that men would've run along these lines.
Another dimension is the partisan and rebelious actions behind German lines. Britain remains to this day a fiercly proud nation and at a time when its entire way of being was threatend the resistance would've been incredible and there in fact resistance cells set up with some of the best training available at the time these groups on their own would've hampered teh german efforts at advancing.
And of course we all forgot the Royal navy, the Royal navy had been itching to proove its worth since being driven out of the channel by airraids and would most likely have steamed at full speed to the channel and been there at the end of teh first day making any resupply extremly difficult.
Add to all this the fact that even if El Al had been won by the Germans they did not have the men and resources to fight across teh suez or even Cairo, it was highly likely that cairo would've become a British Stalingrad.
The pacific is a different picture and probably much more complicated due to the much reduced British presence the mainland would've struggled to make any ground against the Japanese.
) and teh more famous one by Monty, the first lured german armour and advance divisions into a massive killing box entrapping tanks in soft sad and pelting them from the heights arond El Al, after this Rommel was incapable of laucnhing an assault upon the British line.As for sealion, The British beaches werent exactly the Atlantic wall however they were defended convincingly and would of caused high casualties upon German landings, also if the RAF won teh Battle of Britain but not at a cost high enough to stop Sealion then the Aerial battles would've been intense however newer better marks of spitfire would've dominated all marks of 109 and some 190s especially as the luftwaffe had a much shorter timespan over England. This added to the experience of the British fighters and the fact that if they bailed out they would most likely be returned to their unit would've ended in British aerial supremacy. Thus meaning that the Typhoon, Bolton, hurricanes etc would've had a field day on the hastily constructed barges costing the germans highly in men and equipment.
Add to this the fact that britain was an intricate killing zone which knew from where its enemies were going to strike. If you thought that D-Day was bad this would probably have rivaled it if not bettered it in terms of bloodshed. I have personally seen the preparations for landing and it is worrying and sickening that men would've run along these lines.
Another dimension is the partisan and rebelious actions behind German lines. Britain remains to this day a fiercly proud nation and at a time when its entire way of being was threatend the resistance would've been incredible and there in fact resistance cells set up with some of the best training available at the time these groups on their own would've hampered teh german efforts at advancing.
And of course we all forgot the Royal navy, the Royal navy had been itching to proove its worth since being driven out of the channel by airraids and would most likely have steamed at full speed to the channel and been there at the end of teh first day making any resupply extremly difficult.
Add to all this the fact that even if El Al had been won by the Germans they did not have the men and resources to fight across teh suez or even Cairo, it was highly likely that cairo would've become a British Stalingrad.
The pacific is a different picture and probably much more complicated due to the much reduced British presence the mainland would've struggled to make any ground against the Japanese.
das
Regeneration In Process
I know, but its the size of a small city and has a population not sufficiently smaller then that of Classical Athens.
As for Sealion. I know it is well-defended, but IMHO, it IS possible for Germans to land. It will be costly, especially so if Churchill does as promised and uses poison gas against the landings. Still, back then Germany still could afford to commit more forces to replace those lost.
As for the resistance - you bet its there! In fact, IMHO even if Manchester is taken, Churchill is likely to fight on from... wherever isn't occupied yet. That partisan resistance is one of the things that in my scenario prevented a German blitzkrieg in England.
As for Sealion. I know it is well-defended, but IMHO, it IS possible for Germans to land. It will be costly, especially so if Churchill does as promised and uses poison gas against the landings. Still, back then Germany still could afford to commit more forces to replace those lost.
As for the resistance - you bet its there! In fact, IMHO even if Manchester is taken, Churchill is likely to fight on from... wherever isn't occupied yet. That partisan resistance is one of the things that in my scenario prevented a German blitzkrieg in England.
Sgt.Hellfish
King of the Oceans
I do belive that there were plans for an evacuation of Whitehall and teh government to Canada if it became that desperate.
also i never said they wouldnt land i just doubt the possibility of a sustained beachead with a lack of aerial supremacy or naval reinforcement.
also i never said they wouldnt land i just doubt the possibility of a sustained beachead with a lack of aerial supremacy or naval reinforcement.
das
Regeneration In Process
Aerial supremacy still could be achieved - ITTL, the Luftwaffe is far from being as decisively crushed as in OTL, while the RAF has taken much greater damage then in OTL. With at least temporary supremacy, the British fleet could be held at gate, allowing for the beachhead troops to advance further.
das
Regeneration In Process
Yes. 9000 servants. Okay, I DO understand that Athen's population was actually much bigger... But still.
das
Regeneration In Process
17th Century after the war was far from being peaceful.
In the Americas, with time, Denmark-Norway, France and even Italy (having barely negotiated a deal with the Lisbon Alliance) too expanded there, constructing colonies on the eastern coast. Most widespread, by the end of the century, were Dutch (in OTL Virginia and Louisiana, and the first colony in Massachussets surrounded by the English), English (OTL New Brunswick to Delaware) and French (Newfoundland, most of Georgia and Carolinas though in the latter there also was a temporary Italian colony (later annexed by France)) colonies. Castille consolidated Florida, . Mexicans expanded further and further north, towards Columbia and Mississippi. Ferdinand I the Great in 1633 declared the stop of expansion in that direction, as Mexico needed to digest what it bit off. That was a potential source of trouble. Native Americans, most notably Iroquois, Seminole and Huron confederations, were hindering European advance, in part thanks to different European factions providing them with weaponry, sometimes turned against them. Mexico treated Native Americans very humanely in comparsion with other factions (the Dutch were quite friendly towards natives as well, being more keen on trade then on conquest), because that, well, Mexico consisted of other natives for the most part. Yes, there was considerable Spanish (and other European) immigration to Mexico time to time, but Native Americans were already quite established there. There was a large metis (as in half-European, not half-French) population as the Spanish elite slowly but surely begun to mix with the native peoples. Hernan IV (ruled 1637-1655), for example, was less then 3/4 Spanish. Throughout the reign of Hernan IV, Mexico was in a state of limited war with the Incans, mostly consisting of naval engagements in the Pacific Ocean. The war was, nominally, fought over southernmost Central America, colonized by Mexicans though earlier claimed by Incans. Eventually, Central America was recognized to be Mexican, in exchange for Mexicans surrendering the Galapagos islands to the Incans. Portuguese Brazil was rather backwater, though it did occasionaly get more immigrants as it provided numerous luxury resources for Europe. It coexisted peacefully with the Incans. America was, thus, alot more peaceful then Europe, for now.
In Europe itself, several powers were either liberalizing, either doing the opposite and establishing a stronger absolute monarchy. England, for one thing, was liberalizing with a series of weak-willed kings losing more and more power to the Parliament. Without Charles I, England had no civil war. Scotland is still independant, and Ireland is divided between England (south) and Scotland (north). Irish Catholics are highly resistant to both, though Scottish and English settlement in their respected territories is increasing, causing some of the Irish to leave for the colonies, such as the town of Arda Fein (OTL Philadelphia). France was slowly liberalizing as well, but Henri IV and his successors still held significant power. Overall, France was also centralizing and rebuilding. Netherlands too attempted centralization, with only limited success. Poland was another power with minor liberalization. Meanwhile, absolute monarchy was fortifying in Aragon, Bavaria and Sweden, and, ofcourse, in Russia where the Godunov dynasty was still predominant and intended to somehow modernize Russia, with moderate success. Schmalkaldik League fell apart at last, but there were several rising Protestant powers - Mecklenburg, Hannover and, ofcourse, the Palatinate of Rhine.
And, ofcourse, in Europe there were many wars. To list a few:
- Third Italian War (Louis II of Italy tried to unite all of Italy, at first scoring numerous successes but eventually was defeated by Venetian and Papal forces at Ravenna 1641 and had to abandon most gains apart from a few minor principalities).
- Fourth Italian War (Louis II tried to unite Italy again, but was defeated early on by France to whom he lost Corsica and Venice to whom he lost Lombardy, causing the move of capital to Naples and further worsening of the stability of his kingdom).
- The First Northern War or the Five Years War (Sweden attempted to make some gains at the expense of Denmark-Norway, but eventually, had to confront the Lisbon Alliance, now joined by Denmark-Norway, and lost, restoring status quo).
- Third German War of Religion (or Second, if one does not count French Succession War) (Bavaria manages to unify virtually all of Catholic Germany, but fails to seize Rhine).
- Great Ottoman War (it still dragged on, and on, and on until the Ottomans signed peace with Aragon and the Jagiellons, conceding Hungary, Wallachia and Moldovia to the latter but getting a guarantee of Danube as the northern Ottoman border).
- Eight Years War or Minsk War (a series of inconclusive fighting between Russia and Poland, without any real gains for either side apart from Russia improving its relations further with the Cossacks, who now rebelled here and there against the Poles).
Elsewhere, Portugal was still the main power in the Indian Ocean, though France and Netherlands tried to change that, with only limited success. Portugal still had a growing colony on the Cape, controlled very large chunks of India (including Ceylon), as well as several treaty ports in China. The Portuguese also temporarily controlled Kyushu island which they gained after an otherwise failed attempt to conquer Japan, but eventually, had to concede it. France and Netherlands too jumped in into colonization of India, and acquired favorable trade with smaller Indonesian and Indochinese states. Later on, the same smaller states became targets for colonial expansion.
In the Americas, with time, Denmark-Norway, France and even Italy (having barely negotiated a deal with the Lisbon Alliance) too expanded there, constructing colonies on the eastern coast. Most widespread, by the end of the century, were Dutch (in OTL Virginia and Louisiana, and the first colony in Massachussets surrounded by the English), English (OTL New Brunswick to Delaware) and French (Newfoundland, most of Georgia and Carolinas though in the latter there also was a temporary Italian colony (later annexed by France)) colonies. Castille consolidated Florida, . Mexicans expanded further and further north, towards Columbia and Mississippi. Ferdinand I the Great in 1633 declared the stop of expansion in that direction, as Mexico needed to digest what it bit off. That was a potential source of trouble. Native Americans, most notably Iroquois, Seminole and Huron confederations, were hindering European advance, in part thanks to different European factions providing them with weaponry, sometimes turned against them. Mexico treated Native Americans very humanely in comparsion with other factions (the Dutch were quite friendly towards natives as well, being more keen on trade then on conquest), because that, well, Mexico consisted of other natives for the most part. Yes, there was considerable Spanish (and other European) immigration to Mexico time to time, but Native Americans were already quite established there. There was a large metis (as in half-European, not half-French) population as the Spanish elite slowly but surely begun to mix with the native peoples. Hernan IV (ruled 1637-1655), for example, was less then 3/4 Spanish. Throughout the reign of Hernan IV, Mexico was in a state of limited war with the Incans, mostly consisting of naval engagements in the Pacific Ocean. The war was, nominally, fought over southernmost Central America, colonized by Mexicans though earlier claimed by Incans. Eventually, Central America was recognized to be Mexican, in exchange for Mexicans surrendering the Galapagos islands to the Incans. Portuguese Brazil was rather backwater, though it did occasionaly get more immigrants as it provided numerous luxury resources for Europe. It coexisted peacefully with the Incans. America was, thus, alot more peaceful then Europe, for now.
In Europe itself, several powers were either liberalizing, either doing the opposite and establishing a stronger absolute monarchy. England, for one thing, was liberalizing with a series of weak-willed kings losing more and more power to the Parliament. Without Charles I, England had no civil war. Scotland is still independant, and Ireland is divided between England (south) and Scotland (north). Irish Catholics are highly resistant to both, though Scottish and English settlement in their respected territories is increasing, causing some of the Irish to leave for the colonies, such as the town of Arda Fein (OTL Philadelphia). France was slowly liberalizing as well, but Henri IV and his successors still held significant power. Overall, France was also centralizing and rebuilding. Netherlands too attempted centralization, with only limited success. Poland was another power with minor liberalization. Meanwhile, absolute monarchy was fortifying in Aragon, Bavaria and Sweden, and, ofcourse, in Russia where the Godunov dynasty was still predominant and intended to somehow modernize Russia, with moderate success. Schmalkaldik League fell apart at last, but there were several rising Protestant powers - Mecklenburg, Hannover and, ofcourse, the Palatinate of Rhine.
And, ofcourse, in Europe there were many wars. To list a few:
- Third Italian War (Louis II of Italy tried to unite all of Italy, at first scoring numerous successes but eventually was defeated by Venetian and Papal forces at Ravenna 1641 and had to abandon most gains apart from a few minor principalities).
- Fourth Italian War (Louis II tried to unite Italy again, but was defeated early on by France to whom he lost Corsica and Venice to whom he lost Lombardy, causing the move of capital to Naples and further worsening of the stability of his kingdom).
- The First Northern War or the Five Years War (Sweden attempted to make some gains at the expense of Denmark-Norway, but eventually, had to confront the Lisbon Alliance, now joined by Denmark-Norway, and lost, restoring status quo).
- Third German War of Religion (or Second, if one does not count French Succession War) (Bavaria manages to unify virtually all of Catholic Germany, but fails to seize Rhine).
- Great Ottoman War (it still dragged on, and on, and on until the Ottomans signed peace with Aragon and the Jagiellons, conceding Hungary, Wallachia and Moldovia to the latter but getting a guarantee of Danube as the northern Ottoman border).
- Eight Years War or Minsk War (a series of inconclusive fighting between Russia and Poland, without any real gains for either side apart from Russia improving its relations further with the Cossacks, who now rebelled here and there against the Poles).
Elsewhere, Portugal was still the main power in the Indian Ocean, though France and Netherlands tried to change that, with only limited success. Portugal still had a growing colony on the Cape, controlled very large chunks of India (including Ceylon), as well as several treaty ports in China. The Portuguese also temporarily controlled Kyushu island which they gained after an otherwise failed attempt to conquer Japan, but eventually, had to concede it. France and Netherlands too jumped in into colonization of India, and acquired favorable trade with smaller Indonesian and Indochinese states. Later on, the same smaller states became targets for colonial expansion.
das
Regeneration In Process
While I'm working on the Alvarez-Communeros world map in 1711, here's some food for thought.
Emperor Pavel I was rather derranged and his foreign policy was likewise. In NES terms, he was the worst possible combination of Amon Savag and Sheep2. NEVERTHELESS, he had three grand history-changing schemes that, unfortunately, did not get through.
- The Madagascar Scheme. I can't find much info on that one, and its possible it was just a rumor. But SUPPOSE Pavel I did go along with that. Division of Madagascar between Russia and France? Russian conquest of Persia to improve contact with the colony? That was a really insane scheme, I know. But... what if? In NES2 I, btw, a similar scheme was carried out leading to Chernorossia, played by Jason, which later became a super power.
- The Malta Scheme. It is, more or less, common knowledge that the knights of the Maltese Order fled from Napoleon in 1798... to Russia, and Pavel I was elected their Grand Master. Suppose he is elected earlier, during the Russian naval expedition into the Mediterranean? If Russia could hold Malta (as a compromise between British and French control, perhaps?), but it does not affect the Napoleonic Wars, how will it change the "Crimean" War?
- And finally, the Indian Scheme. A Russo-French force was to land in Persia, and invade India, while a larger part of the Russian army would bravely ignore all logistics and march through Central Asia into India. Suppose they DO make it there, though, here we have the Tippu Sultan and other Indians rebelling in alliance with Napoleon and the jewel being stolen from the British Crown. Russo-French alliance dominates Europe, while Britain slowly sinks into obscurity... World War One will come earlier between Russia and France, somewhere in mid-19th century, with America and Britain taking sides as well.
Emperor Pavel I was rather derranged and his foreign policy was likewise. In NES terms, he was the worst possible combination of Amon Savag and Sheep2. NEVERTHELESS, he had three grand history-changing schemes that, unfortunately, did not get through.
- The Madagascar Scheme. I can't find much info on that one, and its possible it was just a rumor. But SUPPOSE Pavel I did go along with that. Division of Madagascar between Russia and France? Russian conquest of Persia to improve contact with the colony? That was a really insane scheme, I know. But... what if? In NES2 I, btw, a similar scheme was carried out leading to Chernorossia, played by Jason, which later became a super power.
- The Malta Scheme. It is, more or less, common knowledge that the knights of the Maltese Order fled from Napoleon in 1798... to Russia, and Pavel I was elected their Grand Master. Suppose he is elected earlier, during the Russian naval expedition into the Mediterranean? If Russia could hold Malta (as a compromise between British and French control, perhaps?), but it does not affect the Napoleonic Wars, how will it change the "Crimean" War?
- And finally, the Indian Scheme. A Russo-French force was to land in Persia, and invade India, while a larger part of the Russian army would bravely ignore all logistics and march through Central Asia into India. Suppose they DO make it there, though, here we have the Tippu Sultan and other Indians rebelling in alliance with Napoleon and the jewel being stolen from the British Crown. Russo-French alliance dominates Europe, while Britain slowly sinks into obscurity... World War One will come earlier between Russia and France, somewhere in mid-19th century, with America and Britain taking sides as well.
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