das
Regeneration In Process
"There is but one God-Emperor of the Roman Empire, Caligula, and Incitatus is his horse and prophet"
Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!
- Thread starter Amenhotep7
- Start date
SKILORD
Insurgent
I tried doing a map for the Sam Houston POD, but failed, it wasn't good or pretty.
tossi
Der kleine Prinz
Nice timelines/stories SKILORD & das!
Well here are some short muslim themed "what ifs":
1.What if the Battle of Tours (732 AD) was won by the Muslim forces?
2.What if the Battle of Veinna was won by the Ottoman forces?
3.What if the Reconquisita failed and several Moorish Kingdoms survived in Iberia?
Well here are some short muslim themed "what ifs":
1.What if the Battle of Tours (732 AD) was won by the Muslim forces?
2.What if the Battle of Veinna was won by the Ottoman forces?
3.What if the Reconquisita failed and several Moorish Kingdoms survived in Iberia?
das
Regeneration In Process
SKILORD, btw, I'm quite confused as to where is CFS situated.
tossi:
1. Read my modest timeline "by a Single Decision" in the alt. hist. thread. Its on a similar topic, though not exactly the same.
2. Poland would've defeated the Ottomans anyway and would have probably annexed Austria and Hungary (rather like Austria did to Hungary after fighting back the Ottomans).
3. Emirate of Mexico.
And I would like to add another one:
4. What if the Khazars were defeated in the beginning of their war against the Arabs? Could this lead to a Muslim Eastern Europe?
tossi:
1. Read my modest timeline "by a Single Decision" in the alt. hist. thread. Its on a similar topic, though not exactly the same.
2. Poland would've defeated the Ottomans anyway and would have probably annexed Austria and Hungary (rather like Austria did to Hungary after fighting back the Ottomans).
3. Emirate of Mexico.
And I would like to add another one:
4. What if the Khazars were defeated in the beginning of their war against the Arabs? Could this lead to a Muslim Eastern Europe?
das
Regeneration In Process
OOC: I should note that people born after the PoD (meaning the global one, not the one about Alvarez's survival) will be quite different from those born in our history, so if you hear a familiar name, do not expect it to be the same person. I know that some people disagree with this idea, but this is how I'm used to write my timelines. Too late to change it now.
IC:
Meanwhile, back in America.
16th Century is, as one might expect, rather calmer here. Mexican Empire expands greatly (to the extents of OTL's Viceroyalty of New Spain in the same time period minus Florida and half of Central America (meaning, ofcourse, the Guatemala-Panama area, not Mexico itself)). Sometimes in mid-16th century, there were three expeditions that tried to conquer the Incan Empire, but by then, Incan Empire already dealt with the civil war and with the European diseases brought by tribes from the north. With some luck, the first expedition was defeated, and the other two were even easier after Atahualpa got the grasp of beating up conquistadors. Note that Pizarro ITTL did not participate in any of these expeditions, instead becoming a trusted general of Hernan II who defeated a minor uprising in Cuba and expanded the empire further north. Mexico existed in nearly-complete isolation in regards to everybody else, with the possible exception of the Portuguese who were colonizing Brazil. That is, it was so until Simon I became Emperor and started sending embassies to the Incans and to Europe (where, at first, it was thought that those ambassadors came from Prester John - a fact that illustrates the ignorance in Europe in regards to the New World). Despite the growing Hispannic immigration into Mexico, the native peoples still had numerical superiority.
The civil war, diseases and the three Mexican expeditions have stimulated the Incan technologic advancement. It was, as of 16th century, very slow, extremelly so in social spheres. But it was happening. Incan Empire also established friendly relations with Portuguese merchants after determining that they did not want to conquer anything. This contact allowed Incans to get more horses, firearms and iron weapons before they finally learned to construct similar tools. Catholic missionaries in the Incan Empire had very modest results, but results nevertheless. In fact, a new version of Christianity - and a one potentially more popular - begun to emerge in the Incan Empire in the end of 16th century, and it, unsurprisingly, emphasized on loyalty (to the Emperor) and labor, virtues already crucial in the Incan society.
In North America, England was quickly becoming the dominant colonizing power. Ever since Cabot raised an English flag over Newfoundland in the last years of 15th century, new and new expeditions were being sent out. In 1537 Captain Francis Drake established the first major English colony at Drakestown (OTL Halifax). Soon after, England established some smaller colonies further south. France was too busy with having to fight off yet another anti-Valois coalition in Europe, and was too overstretched as it was to think about the New World, but in 1560s, Castille, Netherlands and Sweden soon sent their own expeditions to North America. Thus Castille established a colony in Florida (Nueva Toledo), Sweden - in Delaware (Christinaburg) and Netherlands - in Massachussets (Nieuw Antwerpen). Portugal also tried to colonize Florida, but eventually, their settlement proved unprofitable due to malaria and they sold it to Castille.
Thus, slowly, but surely, North America was being colonized throughout 16th century, though, apart from Mexico, most colonization was on the eastern coast. In South America, the Portuguese and the Incans pretty much divided the continent.
IC:
Meanwhile, back in America.
16th Century is, as one might expect, rather calmer here. Mexican Empire expands greatly (to the extents of OTL's Viceroyalty of New Spain in the same time period minus Florida and half of Central America (meaning, ofcourse, the Guatemala-Panama area, not Mexico itself)). Sometimes in mid-16th century, there were three expeditions that tried to conquer the Incan Empire, but by then, Incan Empire already dealt with the civil war and with the European diseases brought by tribes from the north. With some luck, the first expedition was defeated, and the other two were even easier after Atahualpa got the grasp of beating up conquistadors. Note that Pizarro ITTL did not participate in any of these expeditions, instead becoming a trusted general of Hernan II who defeated a minor uprising in Cuba and expanded the empire further north. Mexico existed in nearly-complete isolation in regards to everybody else, with the possible exception of the Portuguese who were colonizing Brazil. That is, it was so until Simon I became Emperor and started sending embassies to the Incans and to Europe (where, at first, it was thought that those ambassadors came from Prester John - a fact that illustrates the ignorance in Europe in regards to the New World). Despite the growing Hispannic immigration into Mexico, the native peoples still had numerical superiority.
The civil war, diseases and the three Mexican expeditions have stimulated the Incan technologic advancement. It was, as of 16th century, very slow, extremelly so in social spheres. But it was happening. Incan Empire also established friendly relations with Portuguese merchants after determining that they did not want to conquer anything. This contact allowed Incans to get more horses, firearms and iron weapons before they finally learned to construct similar tools. Catholic missionaries in the Incan Empire had very modest results, but results nevertheless. In fact, a new version of Christianity - and a one potentially more popular - begun to emerge in the Incan Empire in the end of 16th century, and it, unsurprisingly, emphasized on loyalty (to the Emperor) and labor, virtues already crucial in the Incan society.
In North America, England was quickly becoming the dominant colonizing power. Ever since Cabot raised an English flag over Newfoundland in the last years of 15th century, new and new expeditions were being sent out. In 1537 Captain Francis Drake established the first major English colony at Drakestown (OTL Halifax). Soon after, England established some smaller colonies further south. France was too busy with having to fight off yet another anti-Valois coalition in Europe, and was too overstretched as it was to think about the New World, but in 1560s, Castille, Netherlands and Sweden soon sent their own expeditions to North America. Thus Castille established a colony in Florida (Nueva Toledo), Sweden - in Delaware (Christinaburg) and Netherlands - in Massachussets (Nieuw Antwerpen). Portugal also tried to colonize Florida, but eventually, their settlement proved unprofitable due to malaria and they sold it to Castille.
Thus, slowly, but surely, North America was being colonized throughout 16th century, though, apart from Mexico, most colonization was on the eastern coast. In South America, the Portuguese and the Incans pretty much divided the continent.
SKILORD
Insurgent
das said:
Well, I made a minor map of what is the SouthEast US in OTL.
The CFS is Reddish, the CSA is gray, the US is blue.
The CFS includes parts of Tennesee, Virginia, West Virginia, Georgia and South Carolina and the whole of North Carolina.
The CSA includes the remnants of South Carolina and Georgia and all of Alabama, Missisippi and Florida.
The US holds the rest of the USA.
Attachments
SKILORD
Insurgent
((You know, I like the idea of a German civil war between the liberal and the conservative elements in the early 20th century, that might be a POD I might have to examine on its own.)) ((My map doesn't include Juventud, which is a small iland near Cuba which belongs to Cuba in OTL))
das
Regeneration In Process
Pretty much as I suspected. Quite good.
Liberal vs. Conservative in Germany? Problem is, the conservatives had the army on their side, but, perhaps, it is not too impossible. Would've been interesting as to how the other powers react.
---
As year 1600 came, Europe has lived through many wars, and was waiting for more - perhaps for one or two great, bloody wars to culminate everything that gathered since the end of the 15th century.
So, lets look at Europe. Religious division is pretty much the same - but Huguenots are increasingly stronger in France, especially without the St. Bathomelew massacre and the (open) Religion Wars. England is alittle stronger, but is more distracted from Europe - it is, however, comitted to the Alliance of Lisbon. France is still ruled by the Valois dynasty, but in essence, there are two factions (Catholics and Huguenots) within the court in a cold civil war (intrigue, diplomacy, competition for military and civilian rank and titles and, ofcourse, "hunting accidents") over religion and control of the king, Henri III - a rather weak and corrupt old man (even weaker and easaier to influence then the OTL Henri III). France has no allies, with the possible exception of Sweden and Denmark-Norway (unfortunately, the two are often at war with each other). It DOES have a(n) (un)healthy amount of enemies.
United Provinces of Castille and United Provinces of Netherlands are getting along quite well despite religious differences. Netherlands - with capital in Antwerpen - is also a member of the Alliance of Lisbon ever since its independance was confirmed in 1579 (much earlier then in OTL - Charles VI, being a more reasonable monarch then the utterly insane Rudolph II, and given the circumstances of Hapsburg decline and loss of Vienna, realized that with his limited manpower, he could not hope to win the war in Netherlands).
Aragon, despite its loss of Italy, was recovering. Charles I (V) was suceeded by Philip II in Aragon. Philip II concentrated on North Africa as well, defeating the Ottoman Fleet at Malta in 1573 (local near-equivalent of the Battle at Lepanto, but not as crushing) and acquiring North Africa all the way east to Tunis (includingly). It was hard to keep order there, but somehow, Philip managed that, in part since the Ottomans did not really want to send troops into that desert, being preoccupied with the Polish forces in Hungary as they were. Further expansion was not attempted for now.
Holy Roman Empire was, by then, most predominantly Protestant (though the Schmalkaldik League was slowly deteriorating again) with the exception of the southwestern areas (Austria was temporarily Ottoman with a large Protestant minority slowly changing into a majority). The Holy Roman Emperor, Frederick IV of the Palatinate, is Protestant as well.
In Italy, France now controls Milan, Liguria (Genoa), Two Sicilies (Kingdom of Naples and Sicily) and Florence. The current Pope is opposed to the French, as is Venice.
Ottoman Empire, as of now, is being slowly beaten back out of Hungary by the brand-new jugernaut of Eastern Europe - the Jagiellon Empire, AKA Poland-Lithuania-Bohemia-Austria-Hungary. Or Rech Pospolitaya. It had a series of succesful kings, such as Sigismund the Old and Stephen (Istvan) Bathory. It waged succesful wars against Turks, Russians and Protestants (albeit against the latter, the only obvious success was the conquest of the remaining Teutonic Order lands). Although Stephen's ambitions of conquering Muscovy weren't fulfilled and his later successors abandoned it until a better time, nevertheless, the Jagiellons were still powerful and their eastern borders were quite secure. They quickly became the new defenders of Catholic Faith.
Indeed, all this was heading to one bloody religious war, to be fought throughout Europe much unlike the regional Medieval conflicts. From Muscovy to Portugal, armies were preparing for war. A loose anti-French coalition was collapsing over religious reasons, yet all were sure that the next war would be against France. So it seemed - that is, until in 1603, Henri III finally died and a civil war broke out in France. The War of French Succession has begun.
---
Should I continue it further? I do have the general idea about the War of French Succession's course, and some interesting results...
Liberal vs. Conservative in Germany? Problem is, the conservatives had the army on their side, but, perhaps, it is not too impossible. Would've been interesting as to how the other powers react.
---
As year 1600 came, Europe has lived through many wars, and was waiting for more - perhaps for one or two great, bloody wars to culminate everything that gathered since the end of the 15th century.
So, lets look at Europe. Religious division is pretty much the same - but Huguenots are increasingly stronger in France, especially without the St. Bathomelew massacre and the (open) Religion Wars. England is alittle stronger, but is more distracted from Europe - it is, however, comitted to the Alliance of Lisbon. France is still ruled by the Valois dynasty, but in essence, there are two factions (Catholics and Huguenots) within the court in a cold civil war (intrigue, diplomacy, competition for military and civilian rank and titles and, ofcourse, "hunting accidents") over religion and control of the king, Henri III - a rather weak and corrupt old man (even weaker and easaier to influence then the OTL Henri III). France has no allies, with the possible exception of Sweden and Denmark-Norway (unfortunately, the two are often at war with each other). It DOES have a(n) (un)healthy amount of enemies.
United Provinces of Castille and United Provinces of Netherlands are getting along quite well despite religious differences. Netherlands - with capital in Antwerpen - is also a member of the Alliance of Lisbon ever since its independance was confirmed in 1579 (much earlier then in OTL - Charles VI, being a more reasonable monarch then the utterly insane Rudolph II, and given the circumstances of Hapsburg decline and loss of Vienna, realized that with his limited manpower, he could not hope to win the war in Netherlands).
Aragon, despite its loss of Italy, was recovering. Charles I (V) was suceeded by Philip II in Aragon. Philip II concentrated on North Africa as well, defeating the Ottoman Fleet at Malta in 1573 (local near-equivalent of the Battle at Lepanto, but not as crushing) and acquiring North Africa all the way east to Tunis (includingly). It was hard to keep order there, but somehow, Philip managed that, in part since the Ottomans did not really want to send troops into that desert, being preoccupied with the Polish forces in Hungary as they were. Further expansion was not attempted for now.
Holy Roman Empire was, by then, most predominantly Protestant (though the Schmalkaldik League was slowly deteriorating again) with the exception of the southwestern areas (Austria was temporarily Ottoman with a large Protestant minority slowly changing into a majority). The Holy Roman Emperor, Frederick IV of the Palatinate, is Protestant as well.
In Italy, France now controls Milan, Liguria (Genoa), Two Sicilies (Kingdom of Naples and Sicily) and Florence. The current Pope is opposed to the French, as is Venice.
Ottoman Empire, as of now, is being slowly beaten back out of Hungary by the brand-new jugernaut of Eastern Europe - the Jagiellon Empire, AKA Poland-Lithuania-Bohemia-Austria-Hungary. Or Rech Pospolitaya. It had a series of succesful kings, such as Sigismund the Old and Stephen (Istvan) Bathory. It waged succesful wars against Turks, Russians and Protestants (albeit against the latter, the only obvious success was the conquest of the remaining Teutonic Order lands). Although Stephen's ambitions of conquering Muscovy weren't fulfilled and his later successors abandoned it until a better time, nevertheless, the Jagiellons were still powerful and their eastern borders were quite secure. They quickly became the new defenders of Catholic Faith.
Indeed, all this was heading to one bloody religious war, to be fought throughout Europe much unlike the regional Medieval conflicts. From Muscovy to Portugal, armies were preparing for war. A loose anti-French coalition was collapsing over religious reasons, yet all were sure that the next war would be against France. So it seemed - that is, until in 1603, Henri III finally died and a civil war broke out in France. The War of French Succession has begun.
---
Should I continue it further? I do have the general idea about the War of French Succession's course, and some interesting results...
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
Looks intresting Das i think you should continue it. 
erez87
Lord of Random
- Joined
- May 16, 2002
- Messages
- 13,500
This is a bit extreme with the changes 
but still nice 
Diffrent timeline.
In 600 AD in europe the Franks rised a bit earlier than reality... In the east hapapnd the interesting stuff.
The Mongols instead of fighting the Tatars like in reality allied with them to create the Tatar-Mongol horde that was much bigger than the Mongolian real one. They invaded the Chinese empire of those time that was much bigger than reality rulling everything from Manchuria to Singhapor and from Korea to Tibet. The many tribes that invaded from the North crashed the chinese armies and allies with tribes that lived inside of China like the Manchus, the Tibetians and Koreans. Hearing of the northern invasion the Malai people who were routed from their homelands by the chinese attacked from the south by ships and landed all over Indo-China. Soon enough Tibet decleared independance which the Chinese agreed to... They didn't needed anymore enemies. Soon enough the coalition alliance occupied all of the Chinese empire, but somthing went wrong in history. The cultural chinese have changed their face. The last Emperor decleared the creating of the Great Chinese horde! And soon the Chinese attacked the Mongols, Tatars, Machurians and Malai, raping their woman and killing the men in every city village and house. 20 years later this new chinese breeds expanded and the Chinese also invaded the Turk lands and the Ural lands. The Chinese and other nationalities and races become merged and the Chinese culture ruled from the Malai to the Urals. Being so many and with the strong Chinese culture the Chino-Hordes became more scientific and soon the Chinese hordes learned gunpowder and were the first to use it, all this happand until 800 AD.
In India, in 750 AD the Muslem invasion created the great Delhi-Sultanate that become stornger and stornger thanks to alliance with the other Muslims. Dravidia was pushed into the south further and further.
In the Middle east the Muslims went to their expansion wars conquering everything they took int he real world but after their failutre and tours the Franks ivnaded Iberia and annexed several lands. Soon the Muslem Empire broke into several emirates and Sultanates. Ethiopia struggeled against the alliance between the Arab Emirate and Somalian Sultanate. Soon Islam expanded southward and evenr eached Madagascar, which soon learned to become civlized.
In Africa The Banztu became very united, but peacfull and the Zulu's who became much stronger invaded them pushing them northward. The Bantu soon learned to fight as many new breeds were created in Africa. The Ethiopians saved the Numidian-Bantus from the Zulu's and were granted vast territories inland. Now the Nubi-Bantu kingdom plans to neither declear independance or join Ehtiopia.
In the Americas the Aztecs, Zapotec and Maya were quite similar except Zapotec become the dominant, for now.
Europe was not diffrent just that update to 800 AD the Frank empire survived and so did several others including the Russ, Byzantium, Bulgarian empire, Venice and several others. The Vikings of Norway are getting closer and closer to new lands...
Now in Asian the Chino hordes stand strong with the only strong gun powder weapones. Delhi-Sulatante begun learning using weak gunpwder and the rest as in map
but still nice Diffrent timeline.
In 600 AD in europe the Franks rised a bit earlier than reality... In the east hapapnd the interesting stuff.
The Mongols instead of fighting the Tatars like in reality allied with them to create the Tatar-Mongol horde that was much bigger than the Mongolian real one. They invaded the Chinese empire of those time that was much bigger than reality rulling everything from Manchuria to Singhapor and from Korea to Tibet. The many tribes that invaded from the North crashed the chinese armies and allies with tribes that lived inside of China like the Manchus, the Tibetians and Koreans. Hearing of the northern invasion the Malai people who were routed from their homelands by the chinese attacked from the south by ships and landed all over Indo-China. Soon enough Tibet decleared independance which the Chinese agreed to... They didn't needed anymore enemies. Soon enough the coalition alliance occupied all of the Chinese empire, but somthing went wrong in history. The cultural chinese have changed their face. The last Emperor decleared the creating of the Great Chinese horde! And soon the Chinese attacked the Mongols, Tatars, Machurians and Malai, raping their woman and killing the men in every city village and house. 20 years later this new chinese breeds expanded and the Chinese also invaded the Turk lands and the Ural lands. The Chinese and other nationalities and races become merged and the Chinese culture ruled from the Malai to the Urals. Being so many and with the strong Chinese culture the Chino-Hordes became more scientific and soon the Chinese hordes learned gunpowder and were the first to use it, all this happand until 800 AD.
In India, in 750 AD the Muslem invasion created the great Delhi-Sultanate that become stornger and stornger thanks to alliance with the other Muslims. Dravidia was pushed into the south further and further.
In the Middle east the Muslims went to their expansion wars conquering everything they took int he real world but after their failutre and tours the Franks ivnaded Iberia and annexed several lands. Soon the Muslem Empire broke into several emirates and Sultanates. Ethiopia struggeled against the alliance between the Arab Emirate and Somalian Sultanate. Soon Islam expanded southward and evenr eached Madagascar, which soon learned to become civlized.
In Africa The Banztu became very united, but peacfull and the Zulu's who became much stronger invaded them pushing them northward. The Bantu soon learned to fight as many new breeds were created in Africa. The Ethiopians saved the Numidian-Bantus from the Zulu's and were granted vast territories inland. Now the Nubi-Bantu kingdom plans to neither declear independance or join Ehtiopia.
In the Americas the Aztecs, Zapotec and Maya were quite similar except Zapotec become the dominant, for now.
Europe was not diffrent just that update to 800 AD the Frank empire survived and so did several others including the Russ, Byzantium, Bulgarian empire, Venice and several others. The Vikings of Norway are getting closer and closer to new lands...
Now in Asian the Chino hordes stand strong with the only strong gun powder weapones. Delhi-Sulatante begun learning using weak gunpwder and the rest as in map
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
Looks good Erez, but Finland was not under Sweden at this point. (Sweden gained Finland in 1323)
Insane_Panda
Deity
I think the timeline is a bit too radical. The chinese giving up all of their beaurocracy and civil order to become a rampaging horde and siding with their enemies to the north?!
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
Erez, i have to agree with insane panda, that's just too radical. Even if all those nations invaded, you know like warlords and guerille leaders, crazy chinese ppl with torches, would fight against the Barbaric Hordes. No one has ever suceeded to cut ALL of china into pieces and divide it among themselve...
erez87
Lord of Random
- Joined
- May 16, 2002
- Messages
- 13,500
No no no no! They didn't allied with any barbarias tribe, they killed them all, like the Mongols caused the creation of the Mongoloid race all over Asia in this NES the Chinese created the Chino race...
And China isn't realy cut into anything, it just show they diffrent new Chino-tribes. If a true Chinese leader will rise it could unite ALL of those lands into the new Chinese Empire! Out of all Chino tribes.
Insane_Panda
Deity
So they killed the barbarians and decided to become barbarian themselves? That sounds very un - chinese to me, afterall, the chinese are known for their extremely complex and sometimes ineffiecent beaurocracy.
Edit: Mongols did not 'create' the mongoloid race by conquering asia. its just early humans in asia evolved from Mongolia and thus, are mongoloid.
Edit: Mongols did not 'create' the mongoloid race by conquering asia. its just early humans in asia evolved from Mongolia and thus, are mongoloid.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
Now you're telling me that the Chinese married Barbarian wives? That's even more unlikely and radical...
das
Regeneration In Process
Mongoloid race as named so because Europe contacted the Mongols the most out of this race.
Don't see how Franks and Chinese are connected, quite frankly... And I agree that's quite odd. The divergence probably should be much earlier. And it seems it is as Dravidia was destroyed by the Aryans long before Islam.
Btw - what is that Karelian nation based in Ladoga? Most of the area north of it was virtually uninhabitable back then.
Don't see how Franks and Chinese are connected, quite frankly... And I agree that's quite odd. The divergence probably should be much earlier. And it seems it is as Dravidia was destroyed by the Aryans long before Islam.
Btw - what is that Karelian nation based in Ladoga? Most of the area north of it was virtually uninhabitable back then.
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
That i guess is Novgorod.
erez87
Lord of Random
- Joined
- May 16, 2002
- Messages
- 13,500
Yeah Novgrod.
The races of Asia begun in Korea not in Mongolia, so why Mongolid?
As much as I know in their conquest the Mongols raped woman and stuff into creating a whole new people in Asia...
Chinese did not married barbarian wives, they raped them, like in any war in any time in any place...
Who said Franks and Chinese are connected?
And first Asian the europian met were the Huns not Mongols, so why not Hunoids? And if than the Persians so why not Personoids?
The races of Asia begun in Korea not in Mongolia, so why Mongolid?
As much as I know in their conquest the Mongols raped woman and stuff into creating a whole new people in Asia...
Chinese did not married barbarian wives, they raped them, like in any war in any time in any place...
Who said Franks and Chinese are connected?
And first Asian the europian met were the Huns not Mongols, so why not Hunoids? And if than the Persians so why not Personoids?
Amenhotep7
Spartiate
Here's an idea: what if Greek culture never came about?
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