Alternate History NESes; Spout some ideas!

So? Which alternate histories appeal to you?

  • Rome Never Falls

    Votes: 58 35.8%
  • Axis Wins WWII

    Votes: 55 34.0%
  • D-Day Fails

    Votes: 41 25.3%
  • No Fort Sumter, No Civil War

    Votes: 32 19.8%
  • No Waterloo

    Votes: 33 20.4%
  • Islamic Europe

    Votes: 43 26.5%
  • No Roman Empire

    Votes: 37 22.8%
  • Carthage wins Punic Wars

    Votes: 51 31.5%
  • Alexander the Great survives his bout with malaria

    Votes: 54 33.3%
  • Mesoamerican Empires survived/Americas not discovered

    Votes: 48 29.6%
  • Americans lose revolutionary war/revolutionary war averted

    Votes: 44 27.2%
  • Years of Rice and Salt (Do it again!)

    Votes: 24 14.8%
  • Recolonization of Africa

    Votes: 20 12.3%
  • Advanced Native Americans

    Votes: 59 36.4%
  • Successful Zimmerman note

    Votes: 35 21.6%
  • Germany wins WWI

    Votes: 63 38.9%
  • Other

    Votes: 31 19.1%

  • Total voters
    162
Stalin was studying to be a Eastern Orthodox priest when his friends suggested socialism. And you're right, though Kerensky might have tried to have Kornilov executed (he thought that Kornilov was plotting to take over the government). Kornilov survives and brings the remnants of trained and hardened troops (left from the Brusilov offensive last year) to defeat Kerensky, exile him, and start a junta with two other generals, appealing to the people who like troikas because they're cool.

With more inspired military leadership, the outnumbered German and Austrian troops on the Eastern Front fail to get Russia to sign a treaty and lose a crucial battle in the Pinsk Marshes. Russian momentum takes it all the way to East Prussia again in the north, and Prague further south. Russia finally launches one last push into Austria, feeling that the Empire is almost beaten, and Vienna falls in July of 1918.

An amphibious offensive by the Black Sea Fleet miraculously lands men near Constantinople at Edirne, and it falls to the Troika on November 11, 1918. Combined with western Allied failures due to the lack of American support (unrestricted U-boat warfare started again in late 1917 to try to counterbalance failed offensives in the East, and sank most of the American troop transports), Russia ends the war with possession of Czechoslovakia, Hungary, extra territory near Ukraine, and an acknowledged sphere of influence in Romania and the rest of the Balkans.

Germany, able to focus on the West, launches a final drive to Paris and captures it in the spring of 1919, after a long siege. The Allies are able to bring peace at almost-equal terms because of an excellent show by a reconstituted BEF at the Pas-de-Calais, but postwar Europe revolves around Prussian Germany and the dictatorial Russia.

No Lenin at Finland Station, or at least a delay of even a few months, might have pretty serious repercussions...but this just ended up being a slight change on the "Germany wins WWI" idea. Oops.
 
Stalin was studying to be a Eastern Orthodox priest when his friends suggested socialism.

Nah, actually he abandoned that as he saw no perspective there. I don't think he would have became and stayed a priest.

And there is a fatal flaw here. WHAT Russian army? It was quickly disintegrating. Admittedly, Kornilov was quite popular and MAYBE he could have prevented it from disintegrating. But IMHO the most he could do is keep up the attacks on Turkey while holding the Germans and Austro-Hungarians at bay. The attacks on Turkey are likely to involve the barely-cancelled seaborne attack on Constantinople in 1917. Methinks it has quite good chances of working.

Seriously, look on page 53. USA, btw, never does get to fight I seem to recall back there, and the war ended somewhat earlier, allowign France to take Saar for itself as well.
 
das said:
And there is a fatal flaw here. WHAT Russian army? It was quickly disintegrating. Admittedly, Kornilov was quite popular and MAYBE he could have prevented it from disintegrating. But IMHO the most he could do is keep up the attacks on Turkey while holding the Germans and Austro-Hungarians at bay. The attacks on Turkey are likely to involve the barely-cancelled seaborne attack on Constantinople in 1917. Methinks it has quite good chances of working.

Seriously, look on page 53. USA, btw, never does get to fight I seem to recall back there, and the war ended somewhat earlier, allowign France to take Saar for itself as well.

Yeah, that's a better idea than mine. Sorry about taking up too much space with a dumb idea. I knew when I posted it that this had about no chance of working unless the Central Powers committed some atrocity like the ones in WWII to help the Russian people fall into step with Kornilov's plans.
 
@Das- if constantinople was captured; being one fo the greatest cities (if not the greatest?) for the orthidox religion, woudl it lead to any increased religious feeligns in Russia, to have recaptured for the faith, such a sacred site, so to speak?
 
Actually, the greatest city for the Orthodox Christianity is, ofcourse, Jerusalem. And don't forget that Russia DID have a major Patriarchate of its own in Moscow, which by then was by then much more influential and powerful then the one in Constantinople/Tsargrad.

But I am sure it WILL give at least temporary religious boost. Not very significant in the "civilized" (i.e. Baltic Sea coast+some choice cities) parts of the Russian Empire, but maybe moreso in the countryside.

Hmm... I wonder if we can make Rasputin survive as well for that one. ;)

Nonetheless, in general, do remember that after WWI Britain controlled Jerusalem. Now, ofcourse, religion generally did play a larger role in Russia of the time then in Britain, but I doubt that this will be significant.
 
It is the 20 of May, 1592. Location: Caudebec, France. The War of Religion rages between the Huguenots and the Catholics. General Parma has been sent to reinforce the Catholics and perhaps finally put an end to the bloody and bitter war, at least in France.

However, he has been outmaneuvered by the brilliant Henry of Navarre, who has Parma caught in a trap. Parma’s army lies pinned against a bend in the River Seine. It looked like Parma had finally been caught, after all his tedious evasions of the larger Protestant army. But the Spaniards were energetic and clever. Even as the French were digging works to further entrap the Spanish, they formed a bridge out of boats, to cross over the river Seine.

In our history, this succeeded. But just suppose for a moment...

Henry’s scouts reported the bridge that Parma was attempting to build almost as soon as it began. He sent a courier to the nearby Protestant flotilla, ordering them to come with all possible haste.

Parma’s engineers were still working to form the boats up side by side when the Protestant warships reached the area. Throwing firebrands mercilessly onto the bridge, the Catholic army’s last hope went up in flames. Parma was now completely trapped by the Protestants.

After five fruitless days of attempting to leave by various ruses, Parma finally faced the truth. He could not go any further. He surrendered on May 25, along with his army of 15,000.

Without a Catholic army marching to it’s aid, Paris was not resupplied that spring, and it fell to the Huguenots. With the capital of the French Empire fallen to the Protestants, the situation gradually deteriorated, until finally, by the end of 1595, the Protestants had control of nearly all of France, with a few strongholds remaining Catholic. However, these would soon fall to the Protestant army, now reinforced with siege artillery both captured from Parma and from the royal arsenals.

The Protestants having finally secured the whole of France, they consolidated and drove off several Spanish invasions that year.

With their flanks secured and France now officially Protestant, the Protestants under Henry of Navarre marched northward with a large complement of cavalry in 1598 to aid the Dutch revolt. Passing rapidly through the Belgian countryside, they arrived at the best possible time, just as the Dutch counteroffensive was faltering. With superior cavalry, artillery, and infantry, and brilliant leaders to use them, they shattered the Spanish army and, driving rapidly onward, by the year 1600 managed to secure the whole of the Spanish Netherlands for the Protestants, dividing it up between France and the Netherlands.

The Protestants used the next few years to reinforce their already strong military forces, as did the Catholics. Both sides waited for the other to make the first move. All of Europe was held in tension as the two great powers waited.

The breaking event came with a Protestant Rebellion in Bohemia in about 1617. The Austrian Hapsburgs moved rapidly to crush this new threat, triggering a series of responses that soon got almost all of Western Europe involved. Essentially everyone except England, who remained studiously neutral, though they secretly funded the Protestant cause and harassed Spanish shipping all over, and even went so far as to trigger a lasting rebellion in Peru.

Meanwhile, back in the land of Europe, the Swedish Meteor of Gustavus Adolphus commanded a united protestant army that outgunned, outflanked, and outfought the Hapsburgs consistently, culminating in the capture of the Rhineland in 1620. They then marched on Ulm, again outfighting the Austrians. The Catholic princes then started a series of rebellions in the already occupied territory, however, and the Swedish coalition had to turn back to deal with these. However, by 1625, these were all extinguished, and the allies shattered Austria at the battle of Nurnberg.

Vienna was captured shortly thereafter, and Austria was reestablished as a Protestant Kingdom. The Holy Roman Empire was dissolved, and the German princes were now crowned as kings, though in reality they all bowed to either Sweden or France.

Meanwhile, in the Americas, the aforementioned rebellion in Peru was in full swing, taking up an excessive amounts of Spanish resources, while Mexico, too, seemed on the verge of breaking off.

It was not only Spain with troubles, however. The French lost Quebec to a staunchly Catholic rebellion, that managed to defeat all combined British and French attempts to regain it, and even expand considerably, annexing Acadia, Nova Scotia, and even nominally controlling the Ohio river valley, though most of that land was in reality controlled by friendly natives.

Louisiana, however, was annexed by the Spanish for a short period of time, only to be regained by the French, and reestablished as a newly Protestant colony, along with the majority of the Mississippi river valley. Florida fell to the British, and joined in the Dominion of America.

The Carribean, meanwhile, was a scattered mess of Spanish, British, French, Dutch, and Danish colonies, while a few hundred nations only recognized within a few miles of their capitals sprung up, most of them either slave revolts or Spanish break away nations.

With the rest of the Spanish Empire becoming a shattered husk of it’s former self, Mexico and Peru became fully independent, with Central America becoming a hodgepodge of Protestant colonies. California was long forgotten by all but a few Spaniards, and the local natives quietly began to attempt modernization.

Back in Europe, the Spanish were the lone Hapsburg power against the Protestants and the Muslims alike, and having lost the New World, they had very little wealth to finance their new wars. Thus Italy was lost to the Protestants, the Papacy abolished, the Pope having fled to Spain. That too became Hell rather than a haven for Catholicism with the Protestant’s victory there.

The Pope fled again and again, and finally had only one place left... Portugese Brazil.

Hence, the world (as it stands in 1700), is very different from our own.

Europe is dominated by Sweden, France, and England, all three Protestant. Iberia is a backwater again, Portugal having lost all it’s colonies along with Spain, and the Basques in Navarre are now independent under the King of France. Italia is dominated by the French, however it is still a Catholic stronghold, and is subject to frequent rebellions. The great powers are on the surface at peace, however, it would seem that now that their foe has been vanquished, there is great tension between France and Sweden. A war is brewing, it would seem.

Germany is almost entirely under the Sphere of influence of the Swedes and French.

Poland, the last great Catholic Power of Europe, fell to the Swedes in the mid 1600s, and is now torn by civil war between the Swedish supported Protestants and the popularly supported Catholics. Lithuania was annexed by the Russian bear, which is now poised to finally perhaps challenge the long reign of Sweden as the preeminent power of the north.

The Ottomans still keep most of the land that they had at their peak, and innovative sultans have forged a longstanding alliance with the Protestants, however, this is falling apart. They still have modernized rapidly, owing to many instructors hired from Europe. Able to focus a powerful army on Persia, they obliterated the latter, and brought most of Arabia under their power as well.

However, they have met a powerful rival in the shape of the Mughal Empire in India, which now is extremely powerful. However, the giant of India is slowly being brought down by the various Protestant Europeans nibbling at it’s flanks. The Mughals attempt to modernize, however they hare having trouble due to the increasingly recalcitrant Marhattas.

China and Japan continue to isolate themselves from the Europeans, however, this is growing harder as the penetration increases. Southeast Asia is now mostly colonized, except for Siam. The Netherlands took most of it, with a few British and French colonies thrown in for good measure.

Africa is barely colonized, with a few renewed Portugese slaving ports colonizing the West coast. The native powers fight among themselves, Muslim Songhai, Christian Ethiopia, and a Catholic Kongo still the dominant ones, while the north is dominated almost entirely by the Ottomans.

South America is divided harshly between an independent, Catholic Brazil, housing the Papacy, the small, undistinguished land of La Plata to their south, and the Peruvian Union to their West, a nation with a very mixed background and incredible mineral wealth. They officially are Protestants, however, the majority of their population are a mixture of Catholics and Incans.

The Carribean is still a barely stable mess, though it now seems that Haiti will become a strong power as the slaves there have managed to maintain a grip on independence, and have set their sights on British Cuba.

Lousiana continues expansion in the name of France, while Quebec has solidified it’s hold on the central regions of America, however, it is being challenged by the French in Louisiana, and the British in Newfoundland, the Thirteen Colonies, and on the shores of the Hudson bay.

California has become established as a new nation, ruled entirely by natives, who are fiercely hostile to any invaders, and are quite modern.
 
Map for the Above Timeline:
 

Attachments

  • Huguenot Timeline.GIF
    Huguenot Timeline.GIF
    90.7 KB · Views: 124
Like I said before, a Huguenot France is cool. But wasting Sir Francis Drake's naval genius on neutrality?!?
 
I really like the alt history posted here NK, except for one thing. There is no way Quebec at this point in time could hold off France and England. There was about six thousand French people there at best. Even with Indian allies there was no way they could defeat Britian and France. And Quebec was even established until 1604ish and its founder was a French Hougenot who converted so he could remain in France.
 
I'm not sure, but I don't think that Korea was under Chinese control in the 1600s (see map). Even with China getting a new base in Indochina, the Ming didn't have the kind of firepower needed to crack the small and resilient Korean kingdom, especially with Yi Sun-sin in the navy in the late 1500s. Japan tried twice and failed in the Seven Years War (the Asian one, not Prussia vs Austria).
 
It was their vassal.

See Alternate History forum, I nit-picked on every detail that could possibly be wrong. ;)

Btw, I am currently working on something very interesting for this thread...
 
OOC: AND NOW... Something very interesting (right...) for this thread.

This came from a self-imposed challenge. Oh, and this is only the first part. I didn't write any others, but I intend to.

IC:

In 1627, in an effort to better colonize New France, Cardinal Richelieu founded the "Company of New France", better-known as the "Company of Hundred Associtates". It was meant to take 300 settlers to New France every year in exchange for temporary fur trade monopoly. All those plans were broken up by a war with England - a war within not much notable happened apart from a raid on Quebec and some nasty attacks on French shipping. Let us butterfly it away (or turn it into a phony one). Thus, the tiny Quebec is never sacked, the Company of New France is able to carry out its promises. Historically, a major factor in the eventual French defeat at the English hands in America was the low French colonial population. Here, the Company helps establish a more serious settlement earlier. There is however a problem of controlling large spaces - it is hard to convince most people to stay in the tiny towns doing manual labor instead of fur-trading or something like that. But due to population growth, France gets into conflict with the natives earlier. It does win, but generally, this means that somewhat more people would rather stay in the safety of early French colonial cities (higher concentration of the population).

By the time the War of the Grand Alliance (1689-97) comes around, French colonial holdings are much better off (higher population, better economy) then in OTL, BUT France has more enemies among the natives (in the colonies, the war is known as the First English and Indian War). The French had great commanders in that war. Louis de Frontenac thus defeats the English Iroquois allies and invades New England, whilst Pierre le Moyne seized Hudson's Bay and Newfoundland. The Treaty of Rijswujk, in 1697, involved New France being recognized in the gains in Iroquois territory, Hudson's Bay and Newfoundland.

After that war, England's allies begun to intensify raids. As the War of Spanish Succession raged in Europe, the surviving Iroquoi warriors and other tribes raided the outskirts of New France, while the English/British forces themselves captured Newfoundland and from there tried (unsuccesfully) to take Quebec. The peace treaty restored status quo, but after it the French colonial administration became fully determined to drive the British from North America. So during the War of the Austrian Succession, the Third English and Indian War took place. The British forces concentrated on Newfoundland and Acadia, making some progress there, but the French meanwhile succesfully marched into New England and sacked New York. In the large "no man's land" between British and French colonies in the south, sporadic fighting took place, with the British gradually pushed back. The eventual peace treaty confirmed those heretofore neutral lands as French. The British were locked in.

Meanwhile, it must be noted that the population of New France begun to grow quite rapidly at the time, both naturally and artificially - the appeal of the "land of opportunity" (and the chance to get away from debts while still living acceptable) was great enough for that. The British population advantage was seriously challenged.

Then began the Five Years War (OTL Seven Year's war), also known as the Fourth English and Indian War. It went far from they way it did in OTL - most fighting was, yet again, in New England and in Virginia (in the former, France won easily; in the latter, it bogged down). Due to the defeat at Quiberon Bay, France was unable to send more reinforcements to the colonies, but this British advantage proved insignificant in the face of Henri-Joseph de Montcalm (similar to OTL Louis-Joseph de Montcalm) and his army. Jonathan Wilberton, a son of a Virginia plantator, rallied the local militia to assist the British forces and attempted to stop the French advance - in the long run, he only delayed it - but did so significantly. British reinforcements proved enough to hold southmost territory, but eventually, as the French began to overrun Hannover, many of those troops were recalled to Europe.

By 1759, much of British North Ameirca fell - only Georgia and parts of the Carolinas held out. Their native allies were also held at bay after a near-disaster for France in Louisiana. But, ofcourse, Britain refused to surrender - after all, the French advance in Hannover was stopped dead, and soon, reinforcements could arrive...

It was not to be. In 1760, France and Spain managed to rebuild their fleets sufficiently. They were joined by Netherlands, which was promised New York and a bit of land around it, as well as the island of Jamaica. Finally, Sweden, Poland and Russia scraped together a fleet of their own, hoping to put Britain out of war for good. This Great Armade sailed towards England and, after the Battle of Dogger's Bank, the Franco-Dutch-Spanish forces landed near Dover. The British resisted bravely, but were defeated at Dorking and eventually were forced, in early 1761, to surrender (George III was captured). Soon enough, without British help, the Prussian lines broke in the west, while in the east, Russians pressed forward to Berlin. King Fredrich II commited suicide soon after, and the dismoralized Prussia gave in. The peace treaty was quite, quite harsh. Britain lost ALL of its North American colonies to France (New York and Jamaica were taken by Netherlands), was forced to pay a very harsh indemnity and finally allowed the French to garrison Dover. Oh, and Ireland was granted increased autonomy. Hannover was largely left intact, but the amount of British troops (and native ones as well) was seriously limited. In India, Britain only kept Bengal - the rest went to France, including the large previously-French occupied Carnatic region. Prussia was essentially partitioned, keeping only the original Brandenburg under the Franconian branch of the Hohenzollerns (who were more pro-Austrian then the legal heir, or rather his relatives who had influence on him). Poland got East Prussia (Russia was acknowledged in control of Courland in exchange), Sweden got Pommerania, Austria got various German enclaves and Silesia.

The maps and the fates of Europe and of the World were greatly redrawn by this Versailles Congress.

(And from this point, the history of Europe and the World would be filled with butterflies...)
 
das said:
It was their vassal.

See Alternate History forum, I nit-picked on every detail that could possibly be wrong. ;)QUOTE]

*sigh* The people over there have no imagination. :p
 
*chants for more and a map aswell*

I like it so far, I wonder if a Louisiana Revolution is in the cards...
 
A French America...ironic, isn't it? (joins Azale in asking for map)
 
*sigh* The people over there have no imagination.

Think so?
*chants for more and a map aswell*

The map will eventually come, once enough things change.
I like it so far, I wonder if a Louisiana Revolution is in the cards...

Perhaps, perhaps... But definitely not in Louisiana. There weren't a lot of people there back then, even in this timeline... As for New France, yes, but it will be quite different.
 
Back
Top Bottom